E-CHALLENGER EVO

yes

maybe

not sure

Why is this vehicle class "Touring car"?

Quote from FIZ :

Why is this vehicle class "Touring car"?

Because I wanted to implement some illuminable stripes over the car's body - unfortunately formula class vehicles do not support headlights function, so to make it happen I had to switch to traditional car class.

As a consequence it also has horn and handbrake, but I don't mind

Quote from michal 1279 :

it also has horn and handbrake, but I don't mind

I do mind instead, I hope @scawen will solve this nonsense as soon as possible.

If I search for a formula, I expect to find formulas, it is that simple.

This mod is used for doing Formula E style races: it has 3/5 stars votes, very few updates, no real skins BUT it has a horn and a handbrake (btw some pilot used it during the last race on march 12th, I saw it clearly and the commentator too!!).

Now I get why Verstappen is so strong on Formula1! He uses a handbrake...

It was not enough already knowing the weather change is "simulated" changing tires.
LFS is gone fully arcade and nobody cares.. wow

I appeciate your concerns over my creations and the well-being if LFS.

Let me break it down for you:

Quote from FIZ :

If I search for a formula, I expect to find formulas, it is that simple.

Surely would be handy to have formula class vehicles with lights support, but until then the car has to stay in different vehicle class for reasons specified above. Deal with it.

Quote from FIZ :

it has 3/5 stars votes

Well, before the rating got flooded with 1-star votes from guys upset that the car got the 'approved' shortly after its release (for the record I did not request it), it was sitting at pretty good rating of around 4,5 stars. Now it has 'only' 3,6 stars because some kids simply couldn't handle their tantrum...
But unlike you, I don't mind as I know what this car is worth of regardless of the review-bombing.

Quote from FIZ :

very few updates

Almost like having few updates is a bad thing... Unlike most 'modders' here who upload the mod as soon as they put the sketchfab-laundered 3D model onto random LFS wheels and then reupload it with little tweaks frequently (essentially just spamming our hard drives and the main server depository), this vehicle was in development for nearly half a year before it even went online and as a consequence most errors have been caught in that phase. Since the release there was single update containing the fixes for few things that were unnoticed and one more is scheduled for the next week. No other updates are needed so I don't see a single reason why there should be many...

Quote from FIZ :

no real skins

The vehicle has full skin support and there are tons of great skins made by the E-Challenge competitors
(https://www.lfs.net/forum/thre ... E-Challenge-2023----Skins)
The default skins are very elementary, but they are sufficient; don't understand your upset about it.

Quote from FIZ :

it has a horn and a handbrake (btw some pilot used it during the last race on march 12th, I saw it clearly and the commentator too!!).

Yes, it has horn and handbrake, so what? Although not intended, I'm not losing my mind over that, there are way bigger problems in the world than a virtual formula car with horn and you seem to be the only one who gets hurt from it. And it has handbrake as well, because why not? I'm aware it is there, competitors are aware it is there, we did not ban its use in the championship, so I don't know where's the big deal.
I could make AWD formula car (which is actually very possible with EV powertrains as well) and you can't stop me from doing so. I'm here to make new stuff while you are here to complain, that's why I'm running a very unique racing championship and you are writing sad posts...

Quote from FIZ :

It was not enough already knowing the weather change is "simulated" changing tires.
LFS is gone fully arcade and nobody cares.. wow

I'm open to trying new things and pushing the limits of what is possible. And as a part of trying to break the sterility of LFS we are simulating wet conditions with low-adhesion tyres (Imagine that!! how unrealistic) in this very specific championship. If you don't like that concept, then simply don't join (oh wait, nevermind) and let us enjoy the racing with new variables while you stay salty about us having fun.

Or go make a better more 'accurate' car that does not stand out.

I think it's a very good car!

Quote from michal 1279 :

I appeciate your concerns over my creations and the well-being if LFS.

Let me break it down for you:

Surely would be handy to have formula class vehicles with lights support, but until then the car has to stay in different vehicle class for reasons specified above. Deal with it.


Well, before the rating got flooded with 1-star votes from guys upset that the car got the 'approved' shortly after its release (for the record I did not request it), it was sitting at pretty good rating of around 4,5 stars. Now it has 'only' 3,6 stars because some kids simply couldn't handle their tantrum...
But unlike you, I don't mind as I know what this car is worth of regardless of the review-bombing.


Almost like having few updates is a bad thing... Unlike most 'modders' here who upload the mod as soon as they put the sketchfab-laundered 3D model onto random LFS wheels and then reupload it with little tweaks frequently (essentially just spamming our hard drives and the main server depository), this vehicle was in development for nearly half a year before it even went online and as a consequence most errors have been caught in that phase. Since the release there was single update containing the fixes for few things that were unnoticed and one more is scheduled for the next week. No other updates are needed so I don't see a single reason why there should be many...


The vehicle has full skin support and there are tons of great skins made by the E-Challenge competitors
(https://www.lfs.net/forum/thre ... E-Challenge-2023----Skins)
The default skins are very elementary, but they are sufficient; don't understand your upset about it.


Yes, it has horn and handbrake, so what? Although not intended, I'm not losing my mind over that, there are way bigger problems in the world than a virtual formula car with horn and you seem to be the only one who gets hurt from it. And it has handbrake as well, because why not? I'm aware it is there, competitors are aware it is there, we did not ban its use in the championship, so I don't know where's the big deal.
I could make AWD formula car (which is actually very possible with EV powertrains as well) and you can't stop me from doing so. I'm here to make new stuff while you are here to complain, that's why I'm running a very unique racing championship and you are writing sad posts...


I'm open to trying new things and pushing the limits of what is possible. And as a part of trying to break the sterility of LFS we are simulating wet conditions with low-adhesion tyres (Imagine that!! how unrealistic) in this very specific championship. If you don't like that concept, then simply don't join (oh wait, nevermind) and let us enjoy the racing with new variables while you stay salty about us having fun.

Or go make a better more 'accurate' car that does not stand out.

The fact that I am complaining about a formula having a horn and a handbrake is because all pilots left LFS long time ago. You should check the sim racing community: plenty of titles and LFS is sometimes not even listed.
If you do take ANY complain as offensive, as "being upset", you know why NOBODY ELSE is willing to do any criticism.

For you is perfect as it is SO IT SHOULD BE FOR ANYONE ELSE.
Good way to make people wanting to not say things out loud anymore.

Very good mods have multiple changes, because they are refined. I can provide example since for you this is new. Not refering to bad mods, of course.

Formula category is very important.
More detailed skins are important.

I absolutely am going to not partecipate to such a counter productive event, where the track is not existing, skins are just colours, people drive formulas using handbrakes.

What you missed in my post is that this mod is below acceptable condition to be included in a proper SIMULATIVE racing competition.
If you are not able to understand the word simulation, that's why you can't comprehend what I said.
For me, trying to be able to do such a competition is a good thing that shows the game isn't ready in the first place. It is all organized very well, by the way.

Please continue enjoy a simulative racing competition where a formula car can use an handbrake (and it is used during race as I saw myself), but since no one is complaining, THEN nobody has the right to complain about nothing. What?

Very, very constructive. Good way to keep the community alive!
Thanks for not accepting any discussion and not providing nothing if "well, for others it is fine, so please shut up".

You said: there are more important things in the world.
Well, you are right.
But ANY problem on LFS, even if LFS stopped working, crashed everyday to everyone, then there were always more important things in the world than a stupid computer game!!
What is the point of saying that?? There is NO code bug more important than Ukraine Russian war or the pandemic or the whatever!!! Thank you really much for pointing that out, it speaks volume.

Can you please do me an example of something on LFS more important than the bigger problems in the world?

Quote from FIZ :

all pilots left LFS long time ago.

Rubbish.

Quote from FIZ :

I absolutely am going to not partecipate to such a counter productive event, where the track is not existing, skins are just colours, people drive formulas using handbrakes.

One of the great things about LFS is the variety it involves. You don't like this car? Fine, drive something else. Can't find anything good amongst hundreds of mods? Fine, make your own. Don't want to make your own, fine, have a nice day. But don't hang around here talking rubbish.

What have you done for LFS recently? Michal has done a lot, and has made a great effort here, organising a fantastic series and worked around some of LFS shortcomings. You are just causing trouble.

Quote from FIZ :

If you do take ANY complain as offensive, as "being upset", you know why NOBODY ELSE is willing to do any criticism.

For you is perfect as it is SO IT SHOULD BE FOR ANYONE ELSE.
Good way to make people wanting to not say things out loud anymore.

There is difference between complaining and constructive criticism, and sorry, but your post feels very much like the first listed option.
If you come to me and say "I think your mod has wrong drag values" I'll check and if you're right, I'll appreciate your feedback.
But you come and say "I think your mod sucks because it is not frequently updated and doesn't have hundred of fancy skins". That is not constructive criticism, it is just expression of it not being up to your personal standards.

And I nowhere said it is perfect, I had to cut some corners to make it work and already have ideas on how to improve the next championship.

Quote from FIZ :

Very good mods have multiple changes, because they are refined. I can provide example since for you this is new.

For me hundreds of updates being the sign of high quality is definitely a new thing. Almost like I spent half a year building it offline just so I don't have to spam it hundred times to the world.

Quote from FIZ :

Formula category is very important.
More detailed skins are important.

I agree on the category part, however I have already explained why this car is not in the formula category (even if it was a difficult decision).
However I disagree with the desperate need for having fancy skins, I thought this 'game' is about physics simulation in first place, which is where I spent majority of my work at. The car has full skin support and plenty of great community-made skins emerged since then...

Quote from FIZ :

I absolutely am going to not partecipate to such a counter productive event, where the track is not existing, skins are just colours, people drive formulas using handbrakes.

Noone is forcing you to attend the event that had massive impact on the recent evolution of LFS, where tracks are highly accurate replicas of their real counterparts (even if we are essentially racing on a massive parking lot), where the field is very coulourful due to proper skin support,...

Seeing your concern over the singleseater with handbrake, I can imagine that if it was 2013 today, you would accuse me of making shit up, because there is no such thing as an electric-powered formula car and I make the game so 'unrealistic'.

Quote from FIZ :

What you missed in my post is that this mod is below acceptable condition to be included in a proper SIMULATIVE racing competition.
If you are not able to understand the word simulation, that's why you can't comprehend what I said.

Absolutely below acceptable condition indeed. In a world of mods lacking shadows, skin support, proper driver animation, having questionable physics, this one is clearly poorly done.

I think we have different opinion on what 'simulation' atually is.
You seem to feel that simulation is "an attempt to replicate something from the real world as closely as possible at all costs".
Meanwhile to me a simulation is a solution to a question of "what would happen if 'this' was done in the real world?" The simulation uses real-world physics equations and assumptions to tell us how such cars would behave if they did exist (EV singleseaters already exist and while there are not any with handbrake, it is still technologically possible even if no-one has done it and it definitely is not a reason why we should not be allowed to try it in this simulation).
In that case trying to comprehend what you are trying to say is pretty much impossible...

Or should I approach Kerbal Space Program developers and tell them to scrap their work because their imaginative in-game solar system is significantly downscaled and therefore inaccurate, unenjoyable and worthless?

Quote from FIZ :

Can you please do me an example of something on LFS more important than the bigger problems in the world?

Apparently a formula car with handbrake.

Quote :

For you is perfect as it is SO IT SHOULD BE FOR ANYONE ELSE.
Good way to make people wanting to not say things out loud anymore.

Feedback and criticism is important.
I think it is more that the issues you mentioned are already known or others do not see them as dramatic.
For example of course everyone knew about the handbrake already and how the tire rules work.

Quote from FIZ :

Now I get why Verstappen is so strong on Formula1! He uses a handbrake...

Not Verstappen.
The McLaren MP4/12 had an extra brake pedal that acted on the rear only.
It was driven in races by Häkkinen and Coulthard.
Actually it was even more strange: it acted on one rear wheel only.
https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-extra-pedal-3153421/
Similar stuff was tried in other series, too.
Usually it was banned after a while but on the other hand lots of strange stuff is allowed IRL.
So it does not seem entirely unrealistic that this E-Challenge would allow it.

Tires:
The tire rules are not new actually, several real and LFS series have had rules that you need to use two different compounds for a certain number of laps. Why is that arcade?
This time it is called "dry/wet" tires, but if you do not like just think of it as "hard/soft" tires or whatever.

wrong car category:
Some of the hardcoded rules that force some mod-cars to use the wrong category (so they can use a certain feature) are unfortunate. I guess eventually those limits will be dealt with but it is an issue for LFS devs, not for modders.
At least this mod has some explanation, other mods use the wrong category without reason. But that is not the end of the world either and should be discussed in an extra topic.

Updates:
If no breaking bugs are found then maybe updates are not needed.
Especially during a running event series.