MRG V8 GTR

Hello everyone,

actually I much active on discord, and just remembered today that I need to post in forum to get some insight from you all guys

so, starting from the facebook, which usually I see and share some random shitpost, until one day I found out, Morgan just release car called "Morgan Plus 8 GTR" which are resemblance of Morgan Plus 8 that raced on the old day (I not quite know about story of this car really, but as interesting as the body model, it makes me influenced to make one in LFS, but in my version




the attachment that I include below, are the 3 hour progress, just for the exterior thingy, I think I'm really satisfied, despite the car started from LX6 base (I know, it will be called "Default Car" by some people since it's not really start from scratch)

Nice dude!

The update actually started (not so) long time ago, my bad didnt take screenshot of it per each progress, but well, atleast I could focus on the work instead too much talking hahaha

so I decided to make directly a GTR version, since it will much tempting to make and balance rather than road car

so I add spoilers, no fake Aero whatsoever for sure

So I decide to use 3.5L V8 Small Block, actually this engine was taken from Flat 6 FZR, but I change it to V8, and make some adjustment so it will scream up to 7k rpm, not so high? yes I know, but my projection is to Small Block engine which still uses Push-Rod, and all we know, Push-Rod engine couldnt have high rev limit because there's ton of reciprocating mass on each part that will break into failure if revving too high, as how IRL push-rod engine does

also, since it rev limit was lower, so I put V8 Crossplane instead StraightPlane, since CP engine will generate power so good starts from low to mid rpm range

pardon for my OOT, TL;DR, the engine spec will be 3.5L V8, 7400rpm (safe limit so the engine will never overrun when accidentaly downshifting twice)

starting with interior

Disclaimer: all this work has been done directly inside LFS Editor, some parts are taken from another car INSIDE the LFS Editor

I quite happy to challenge myself to create something outside 3dsmax and Blender program, yes this app has caveat especially to smooth out low poly curves, but overall I'm happy that I'm quite learn a lot from this app, Thanks LFS Developer team !! I love you (no homo)

alright, my final checkpoint was here.

so I decided to make 3 colour option for the car, first colour ofcourse for the main body, second colour I set for Rollbar on interior, and third colour was for towhook on the front bumper (if you could see)

that's all for now, since I have business for Domestic Christmas flight, all progress will be updated slowly, atleast until I had free time again once there's finished

Very cool car! gonna be very fun for epic races

Are the front pillars (left & right from frontwindow) are a bit too wide?
On the cockpit screenshot they block much of the view. Compare with the readl car, there they are thinner.

Quote from Gutholz :

Are the front pillars (left & right from frontwindow) are a bit too wide?
On the cockpit screenshot they block much of the view. Compare with the readl car, there they are thinner.

Duh, why notification doesnt appear on my email

Yes, I think it quite thick, will make revision soon, thanks for spotting it too 😄

This car feels great to drive, amazing mod!

Great job! Hopefully some talented creative people create some skins for this, would look really cool instead of the default full colors. Once small thing that bugged me when I switched to the chase view: could the rear lights (brake and turning/hazard) have just a little bit more smooth curves and be more of a circle instead of a 8-point polygon? Since the car has smooth curves all over it and looks great.

My only two complaints are that, visually, the steering wheel is perhaps a bit close to the dash (I feel as though my knuckles would smack into things when holding the wheel) and that on hard braking my wheel's FFB kicks around a bit. I wish I knew what caused the latter as I've seen it on a few mods so far! Just spikes of force wrenching the wheel one way or another.

Great mod, car feels great to drive! Definitely going to try it with the boys for our races!

Quote from MandulAA :

Great job! Hopefully some talented creative people create some skins for this, would look really cool instead of the default full colors. Once small thing that bugged me when I switched to the chase view: could the rear lights (brake and turning/hazard) have just a little bit more smooth curves and be more of a circle instead of a 8-point polygon? Since the car has smooth curves all over it and looks great.

uhh yes, the rear light needs to be redesign a bit so it's not low poly, thanks for pointing out the small mistakes !

Quote from Zopiac :

My only two complaints are that, visually, the steering wheel is perhaps a bit close to the dash (I feel as though my knuckles would smack into things when holding the wheel) and that on hard braking my wheel's FFB kicks around a bit. I wish I knew what caused the latter as I've seen it on a few mods so far! Just spikes of force wrenching the wheel one way or another.

I didnt know if this was a problem or not, but in my G29 it feels the same, I'll try to find the issue, and perhaps update this car if I found how to fix that, thanks

Quote from ivancsx :

uhh yes, the rear light needs to be redesign a bit so it's not low poly, thanks for pointing out the small mistakes !

Thanks for improving them, they look much better from the outside now!

Hi, yesterday i host a very interesting race with your mod. People seems to like it (including me), but i have some questions and feedback about it

- The front feels too much planted at low speeds while it slides out at higher speeds
- The car has too much undertray downforce, and its located right in the middle of the car
- Power to weight ratio is a bit off compared to GTR cars
- The car is kinda unpredictable, sometimes it looses the rear and sometimes the front
- Steering feels odd, a slight movement makes a huge change in direction
- Its very easy to flip someone if you rear end the person https://streamable.com/42jy8n
- Suspension motion range is well above what we see on GTR cars


My suggestion to fix the handling "issue" would be to:

- Maybe changing tires size to 310/35 R18 front and 355/30 R18 rear (not sure about it because it might not be necessary if other things gets changed)
- Reduce undertray downforce and make the undertray point more towards the rear, relying more on wings downforce
- Match power to weight ratio (and make the car a bit heavier and powerful, maybe )
- Decrease suspension motion range (using Max Up settings on LFS Editor to .230m front and .220 rear) as well as reducing a bit more the upper arm lenght, basing on what XRR and FZR suspensions looks like. Caution not to change too much of the car's track
- Make max steering lock 24° and car steering wheel turn 540° (or 270° on LFS Editor)
- Push front lower point of LOD3 a bit backwards, and upper front a bit up and slightly forwards

One side of your skin - the one with logos - is mirrored ...

not for me though. when I use the mod it does not have the side mirrored

Quote from PedroXDBR :

Hi, yesterday i host a very interesting race with your mod. People seems to like it (including me), but i have some questions and feedback about it

- The front feels too much planted at low speeds while it slides out at higher speeds
- The car has too much undertray downforce, and its located right in the middle of the car
- Power to weight ratio is a bit off compared to GTR cars
- The car is kinda unpredictable, sometimes it looses the rear and sometimes the front
- Steering feels odd, a slight movement makes a huge change in direction
- Its very easy to flip someone if you rear end the person https://streamable.com/42jy8n
- Suspension motion range is well above what we see on GTR cars


My suggestion to fix the handling "issue" would be to:

- Maybe changing tires size to 310/35 R18 front and 355/30 R18 rear (not sure about it because it might not be necessary if other things gets changed)
- Reduce undertray downforce and make the undertray point more towards the rear, relying more on wings downforce
- Match power to weight ratio (and make the car a bit heavier and powerful, maybe )
- Decrease suspension motion range (using Max Up settings on LFS Editor to .230m front and .220 rear) as well as reducing a bit more the upper arm lenght, basing on what XRR and FZR suspensions looks like. Caution not to change too much of the car's track
- Make max steering lock 24° and car steering wheel turn 540° (or 270° on LFS Editor)
- Push front lower point of LOD3 a bit backwards, and upper front a bit up and slightly forwards

Wow, quite detailed critics that I need. Thanks a lot !

I'll recheck again later when I had quite free time, for the power to weight ratio, I doubt it will kinda weird to have similar weight and power to other GTR cars, but with current weight, I doubt it will be disadvantages to other competitors, but let me do some in depth research again with it (hope it still fun to drive after fixing some geometry of the car )

Allow me to take notes about point you've mentioned, and I'll reconsider and test your options, Thanks

Quote from sinanju :

One side of your skin - the one with logos - is mirrored ...

I doubt if the problem only on garage, but as for me, it's fine when on track

But let me test it out again later and see if the problem exist, thanks

Might be broken only for Left Hand Drive or Right Hand Drive. Depends if you're mirroring the whole model on side change or just the interior subobject

I haven't really figured this mapping bug out yet but I can reproduce it and I've looked in the editor and seen something a bit strange.

Reproduction: I only see this bug in the garage, when first loaded. Sometimes it is correct again in the garage and I can make it happen again clicking the rallycross setup.

Oddness in the editor: The mapping (M1_side) is from the left side, which I guess should be OK (maybe...) but its primary cutout is called "SIDE_LEFT" which is kind of what you would expect but the odd thing is that is actually the mapping for the right side of the car.

It's kind of confusing because the entire JPG skin is a mirrored skin. Any artist who wants to make a skin for it, would have to mirror all logos.

So I would suggest that the default skin should be flipped and the cutouts re-done, which would be helpful for the artists.

I think I would recommend that the M1_side mapping should really be from the right, as it is aiming for triangles that are built on the right right-facing. It is possible to do this exactly accurately, by selecting that mapping, changing to right view then click "ADJUST".

I've got a feeling that sorting this stuff out would remove the 'bug' (and make it easier for the artists) and it would be better to do that before too many people make a skin for this quite cool mod.

By the way, I have a vague memory of someone reporting this bug a few days ago, but I can't find it. Maybe it was this car or another one... please tell me if anyone knows of another mod with a similar bug!

Quote from Scawen :

By the way, I have a vague memory of someone reporting this bug a few days ago, but I can't find it. Maybe it was this car or another one... please tell me if anyone knows of another mod with a similar bug!

Yes, it was me, in the A5 test patch thread with mod DORITO-GTO https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1985034#post1985034

Quote from MandulAA :

Yes, it was me, in the A5 test patch thread with mod DORITO-GTO https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1985034#post1985034

Thanks! Good to know I'm not going mad!

I think I couldn't find your post because I remembered seeing images (must have been the video) and the post doesn't contain images, only URLs.

OK, the DORITO appears to be conventionally mapped, so will be an easier case for me to try and understand the bug.

Quote from Scawen :

I haven't really figured this mapping bug out yet but I can reproduce it and I've looked in the editor and seen something a bit strange.

Reproduction: I only see this bug in the garage, when first loaded. Sometimes it is correct again in the garage and I can make it happen again clicking the rallycross setup.

Oddness in the editor: The mapping (M1_side) is from the left side, which I guess should be OK (maybe...) but its primary cutout is called "SIDE_LEFT" which is kind of what you would expect but the odd thing is that is actually the mapping for the right side of the car.

It's kind of confusing because the entire JPG skin is a mirrored skin. Any artist who wants to make a skin for it, would have to mirror all logos.

So I would suggest that the default skin should be flipped and the cutouts re-done, which would be helpful for the artists.

I think I would recommend that the M1_side mapping should really be from the right, as it is aiming for triangles that are built on the right right-facing. It is possible to do this exactly accurately, by selecting that mapping, changing to right view then click "ADJUST".

I've got a feeling that sorting this stuff out would remove the 'bug' (and make it easier for the artists) and it would be better to do that before too many people make a skin for this quite cool mod.

By the way, I have a vague memory of someone reporting this bug a few days ago, but I can't find it. Maybe it was this car or another one... please tell me if anyone knows of another mod with a similar bug!

quite strange about the side mapping things, FYI I started this car mod from LX6 base (since I initially planned to make LX6 GTR at first, but changed mind after several works done), I didnt really touch the position about the mapping, only a resize it to match the entire side panel of the car, because I'm using LX6 base as template for mappings, that quite strange resulting that on garages

for cutout position, I just realized that I wrong to put "flip:on", still working for it as I reconsider it will be hard for any skins artist to make their own skins with current state

okay, now that's quite magic

easy fix for now, but I dont know how to test this kind of irregularity to check whether this problem exist or already gone

Quote from ivancsx :

quite strange about the side mapping things, FYI I started this car mod from LX6 base (since I initially planned to make LX6 GTR at first

Thanks for the info! Interesting that the left side mapping is because you started from the LX6 model base.

The LX6 is an unusual model, because it is built with points and triangles on the left side, which are then mirrored to the right side. I think only the LX and XF models are built this way.

So in their case, the main side mapping is from the left, because it's less conceptually confusing, when the 'main' cutout is on the side where the mapping and its triangles are, and the 'opposite' cutout is on the opposite side.

But your MRG mesh has the usual right side points and triangles, so that's how it gets a bit confusing with the main mapping from the left.

Anyway, I don't think it's related to the "left side flipped texture first time load in garage" bug while I'll look at this morning.

Quote from ivancsx :

okay, now that's quite magic

easy fix for now, but I dont know how to test this kind of irregularity to check whether this problem exist or already gone

That looks good, judging from the screenshots. I may be able to report on the flip bug later when I understand it.

I think I am right to suggest that the cutouts "SIDE_RIGHT" and "SIDE_LEFT" should have their names swapped - but you can check by looking at the skin parts they refer to.

Quote from Scawen :

That looks good, judging from the screenshots. I may be able to report on the flip bug later when I understand it.

I think I am right to suggest that the cutouts "SIDE_RIGHT" and "SIDE_LEFT" should have their names swapped - but you can check by looking at the skin parts they refer to.

yes, I have checked this and that's true, I mistaken which side that needs "flip:yes", but it's already fixed as per new update files now together with major car mechanical setups

Quote from Scawen :

Thanks for the info! Interesting that the left side mapping is because you started from the LX6 model base.

The LX6 is an unusual model, because it is built with points and triangles on the left side, which are then mirrored to the right side. I think only the LX and XF models are built this way.

So in their case, the main side mapping is from the left, because it's less conceptually confusing, when the 'main' cutout is on the side where the mapping and its triangles are, and the 'opposite' cutout is on the opposite side.

But your MRG mesh has the usual right side points and triangles, so that's how it gets a bit confusing with the main mapping from the left.

Anyway, I don't think it's related to the "left side flipped texture first time load in garage" bug while I'll look at this morning.

ahh, that's why the problem exist, in short, the position of cutout must be representing left or right side where the mesh started (the main ones, not the mirrored one), and yes, I've checked the original LX, that starts from left instead, that's why the cutout are positioned on the left side

I've clearly understand now, thanks a lot ! this will help me a lot when working for upcoming mods, really appreciate it

OK, as for the actual LFS 'bug' where the mappings swap side in the garage the first time loaded or when you select a new setup, I have found the reason for it.

I'm not yet sure if I can avoid it happening in the code, but I've found how you can prevent this bug appearing, with the MRG model, and Rubie can do it for the DORITO model.

The reason is that the SIDE mapping is also mapped to some top triangles, in the other LODs.

This can become a problem because LFS doesn't think that mapping can remain on one side only (because some of the TOP triangles go from one side across to the other, and are not confined to a single side of the car). OK, I'm still a bit vague about this, but if you see the attached screenshots, this can explain how you can fix it.

Simply, the triangles in the LOD meshes should also have the correct or appropriate mappings, or the reported bug (flipped texture in garage) can come up. This is still the case in the updated MRG (as it was really unrelated to the mapping corrections you did).

Please tell me if my explanation doesn't make enough sense.

Quote from Scawen :

OK, as for the actual LFS 'bug' where the mappings swap side in the garage the first time loaded or when you select a new setup, I have found the reason for it.

I'm not yet sure if I can avoid it happening in the code, but I've found how you can prevent this bug appearing, with the MRG model, and Rubie can do it for the DORITO model.

The reason is that the SIDE mapping is also mapped to some top triangles, in the other LODs.

This can become a problem because LFS doesn't think that mapping can remain on one side only (because some of the TOP triangles go from one side across to the other, and are not confined to a single side of the car). OK, I'm still a bit vague about this, but if you see the attached screenshots, this can explain how you can fix it.

Simply, the triangles in the LOD meshes should also have the correct or appropriate mappings, or the reported bug (flipped texture in garage) can come up. This is still the case in the updated MRG (as it was really unrelated to the mapping corrections you did).

Please tell me if my explanation doesn't make enough sense.

I've just tested, and yes LHD still have this problems, let me do quick fix for this one

just curious, if LOD3 are used only for collision, why it affect skins map on LOD1 on garage menu? does skins map are also linked in between LODs?

Quote from ivancsx :

if LOD3 are used only for collision

It's not.

LOD3 is the 3rd level of visual detail.

It is *also* used for the collision mesh. Not *only* for the collision mesh.

I've explained this in the past a few times. Maybe we need it in the LFS Manual.

More information: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1979872#post1979872

EDIT: I see LOD is mentioned in the LFS Manual but I think it is not clear enough there, or actually misleading.
https://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/LFS_Editor_Guides#Level_of_detail_.28LOD.29_and_Shadow_.2F_Physics_.2F_Collision_meshes

EDIT2: I've updated the manual to explain more clearly about Levels of Detail and how it affects the model as it is drawn at increasing distance.

Quote from Scawen :

It's not.

LOD3 is the 3rd level of visual detail.

It is *also* used for the collision mesh. Not *only* for the collision mesh.

I've explained this in the past a few times. Maybe we need it in the LFS Manual.

More information: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1979872#post1979872

EDIT: I see LOD is mentioned in the LFS Manual but I think it is not clear enough there, or actually misleading.
https://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/LFS_Editor_Guides#Level_of_detail_.28LOD.29_and_Shadow_.2F_Physics_.2F_Collision_meshes

EDIT2: I've updated the manual to explain more clearly about Levels of Detail and how it affects the model as it is drawn at increasing distance.

Ahh, that clearly explained why the mirrored skin problem still exist, that means LOD3 skins map are also linked with other LODs. That misleaded by me but it all clear now 👌

Aight, next time I need to be aware of that so the mirrored skin problem on garage menu wont be happen for my future mods, thanks a lot

hello, i had a problem testing the mod this morning. on a head-on collision, the front of the car went into the passenger compartment and my view was blocked by the deformed bodywork.
I also had the impression on the outside that the length of the car had reduced.

when i ran a solo race of GTR (including three mods) to see what would happen, the same thing happened with an AI that slightly hit the rear of the previous car. on the replay you can clearly see that it is unplayable in the inside view, while the AI continued the race quietly.

congratulations for this very cool mod which is very well balanced with the "basic" GTR

Quote from Papator :

hello, i had a problem testing the mod this morning. on a head-on collision, the front of the car went into the passenger compartment and my view was blocked by the deformed bodywork.
I also had the impression on the outside that the length of the car had reduced.

when i ran a solo race of GTR (including three mods) to see what would happen, the same thing happened with an AI that slightly hit the rear of the previous car. on the replay you can clearly see that it is unplayable in the inside view, while the AI continued the race quietly.

congratulations for this very cool mod which is very well balanced with the "basic" GTR

That's quite weird since I didnt have those result when had massive collision, but perhaps I'll do further checks on it, thanks for reporting those issue 😁

I noticed the same problem as Papator.
It happens randomly on crashes, the force of the impact does not seem to matter much. It can happen when lightly touching a wall, too.

The car's graphic stay messed up even after restarting the race with SHIFT+R.
(see screenshot: start light is red but car is already messed up)

A few other other cars have similiar problems, for example DORITO-GTO:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1983936#post1983936

OK, the reason for this is known.

It's the same reason as that texture flipping bug above. This bug comes up when a SIDE mapping (with a main cutout and an opposite cutout) is wrongly applied to triangles that cross between both sides of the model. LFS can't deal with this situation. All it can do is avoid a program crash.

In Test Patch A7 you see this message in the garage: Cross-texture triangle found in LOD2 - mapping corrected

If you see this message, the model needs that fix for the mappings, described above. Otherwise it can get a flipped texture in the garage and you sometimes get the collision bug.

The correct way to set the mappings for LOD3 meshes is shown in Flame's post and my post here:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1985902#post1985902

And in the case of the MRG V8 I also saw the problem on the roof in the LOD2 mesh:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1985581#post1985581

Quote from Scawen :

OK, the reason for this is known.

It's the same reason as that texture flipping bug above. This bug comes up when a SIDE mapping (with a main cutout and an opposite cutout) is wrongly applied to triangles that cross between both sides of the model. LFS can't deal with this situation. All it can do is avoid a program crash.

In Test Patch A7 you see this message in the garage: Cross-texture triangle found in LOD2 - mapping corrected

If you see this message, the model needs that fix for the mappings, described above. Otherwise it can get a flipped texture in the garage and you sometimes get the collision bug.

The correct way to set the mappings for LOD3 meshes is shown in Flame's post and my post here:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1985902#post1985902

And in the case of the MRG V8 I also saw the problem on the roof in the LOD2 mesh:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1985581#post1985581

just restored all my project from failing HDD, and yes, my bad that LOD2 have wrong maps, so collision bug occured

could anybody checks if it still exist? I had updated with corrected one, hopefully there's no issue anymore to this first scratch made directly from LFS Editor

I confirm the message doesn't appear, the texture doesn't flip when I change setup and when I crashed in game the collision bug didn't show up. So according to the theory that the collision mesh bug comes from this side mapping bug, that should mean it's fixed.

Very good ! i like this

Quote from ivancsx :

could anybody checks if it still exist? I had updated with corrected one, hopefully there's no issue anymore to this first scratch made directly from LFS Editor

I know the MRG doesn't have this bug any more, but for information, I've now added editor support to detect any triangles causing this bug.

It's a lot better than only finding out about it when you load the model in LFS!

You see a message like this: Error in LOD3 of model CAR_NAME: triangle with index 865 and 3 others span two cutouts

And there is an "index" button in tri mode so you can select triangle 865.

Editor B4: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/97865

Today we're racing this car in 64th RTFR XL (75+ minutes race)!



Full info: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/98363-64th-RTFR-XL

Quote from Eclipsed :

Today we're racing this car in 64th RTFR XL (75+ minutes race)!



Full info: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/98363-64th-RTFR-XL

Sorry just read the thread here, thanks, I feel honoured my mod finally being used more for any league that being held...

As usual, please give me input for any irregularities i.e. bug or something that needed to improve 😄

love this car! a bit of a battle to get the nose to come in on turn in sometimes, but in that charming way where it's just the car letting you know you messed up and still have time to change your ways! since the latest update to this mod the understeer/oversteer tendencies have been removed from the default setup. It is easy to recover from either situation without causing a dangerous situation. one of my favourites in the GTR class for LFS

It's well made and a very fun car to drive!