XF GTI RALLY JUNIOR

TW

Hey! I'm organiser of Firssen Gaming Rally Series, previously Westhill Rally Championship: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93073-Firssen-Gaming-Rally-Series

All that time I was dreaming about realistic rally events in LFS. I think it's a perfect sim for that because it have amazing physics and it's allowing to make layout so... Every new season u can drive new, unique stages unlike all rally games where all eSport players know every stages really well. That's not rally!
I hope there will be more space and maybe big map addons in the future to do that sort of events...

Anyway... That topic is about a car desinged by me for Rallying in Live For Speed.
My inspiration was mostly R5/Rally2 cars but adjusted a bit for characteristic of maps from rally events in LFS.

Car is based on XF GTi:
-2.0 Turbo engine - 301PS/448Nm (50% intake restrictor for rallying) or 650PS/910Nm (0% for rallycross)
-changed points of suspension and added dampers travel, rear trailing arms replaced with McPerson strunts
-5 speed sequential gearbox with ignition cut
-added center diff and rear diff so it's AWD
-added navigator seat (with wrong animation model xD)
-added downforce
-235/40 R18 tyres like in Rally1 and Rally2 cars
-quick model edit to fit bigger wheels and wider suspension
-added weight (up to 1130kg + recommended 170kg of handicap = 1300kg)









To do list:
-test 225/40 R17 tyres - I think that R18s are a bit too big for XF GTi size
-adjust suspension
-adjust available setup values (if it possible because I did't figured it out yet)
-make interior (add handbrake and maybe replace sequential stick with push-pull paddle)
-new bodykit (my vision sketch in attachments)
-alternative version with gravel tires size (when I figure how to make different alternative options)






I hope that I have more 3D modeling talent than drawing talent xD



When I finish this car and if there will be interest in new season of FGRS, there will be a rule that allow to participate in your own rally cars mods as manufacturer teams if your car meet our rules

EDIT
If anyone have some tech data of Rally2 cars like for example wishbone length, suspension angles etc it would be nice to know those parameters :3

Looking cool! I'm interested, bring back FGRS!

I like this idea!

This looks promising!

Sorry for unrelated question, but where could i get some of those rally layouts?

Quote from Don :

where could i get some of those rally layouts?

Finnish Rally Server and Finnish Event server if it still exist. I'm not allowed to share stages from FinnCup :c

I'm attaching FGRS 2020 stages to the post but u need to know point 2 and 3 from FGRS rulebook if u want to know how to drive on them (BTW u need to set 1 lap race): https://www.docdroid.net/aB4C7 ... es-fun19-rules-pdf#page=2

Nice progress and testing for your planned mod.

Quote from versiu :

-alternative version with gravel tires size (when I figure how to make different alternative options)

This is on a list but is not actually available yet. I know what you're talking about, allowing wheel size and offset to be set per configuration. Maybe more things eventually.

I am also working on XRT in Rally1 format.
It is identical to the normal XRT, but with some changes but little by little we are applying changes.

We will also carry out some tests as we are also studying whether we will have the opportunity to renew the car's body World Rally Car style (2021)

Only request I have about this AMAZING MOD! Is just the engine, it has that XFR sound to it which I think maybe go to a more dramatic change something more street sound, but also aggressive since we can’t have anti lag or crackle sound. The gear wind is normal since it’s rally style transmission. I agree on the wheels make them smaller 17s. I can’t wait for the body to be completed looks perfect

Any updates on this! I been dying to drive this car!

To be honest project was almost scrapped. I've gone a bit to far and car become sh*t to drive.
Saddly model haven't changed but mechanics/physics has been revised. 17'' wheels, new mounting points and geometry so unrealistic caster gone and ludicrous torque steering have been reduced.
New 1.6 Turbo engine + sound is on the way.
I'm still trying to figure easy way to edit default model.

Quote from martin18 :

Any updates on this! I been dying to drive this car!

I'm planing to release private Test 2 version this weekend. U can be added as test driver if u want.
Also I'm looking for rally event to drive it as 0 car for testing purposes and to compare it.

Damn that’s the worst! Maybe just try to go back to XFR suspension lengths and then just extend arms here and there. Only hard part most likely is building from scratch a rear double wishbone. Yeah the exterior body was ambitious, but the dream look! I was just sad I didn’t see any more progress posted. I always wanted like a proper WRC car from LfS and now that we have the trophy truck this will be a fun addition to the off roaders list

I sended my best spy to some rally team for a recognisance. He kidnap one of their mechanics and forced him to tell all informations about Rally2/R5 cars.
I'm just kidding of course. My friend went to some rally event few days ago. He talked with SportRacingTechnologies mechanic and got all information that this mechanic could tell.
Now suspension, aerodynamics and tyres have been adjusted and physics are propably near final version. I can't tell that about model because it needs to be made....
It's not 1:1 real spec because that car is too small for proper Rally2/R5 or Rally1/WRC spec but it's shows what we can do as engineers

I published second test version for test drivers
Use handicaps 30%/200kg for FGRS spec. I have done that way to get characteristic of an engine with intake restrictor and allow for drivers to put ballast wherever they prefer.

This is amazing!! Nothing like real life homework and research! Today I will be driving the car and see how it reacts! My main concerns right now are suspension movement and travel, and differential and torque split. I hope those are close to Real Life

Quote from martin18 :

My main concerns right now are suspension movement and travel, and differential and torque split. I hope those are close to Real Life

Suspension is still far from real. Geometry and mounting points are alright but geting proper suspension travel is a problem.
If u want more suspension travel u need to set car very high and the only way to get that travel with low suspension is making it very very soft... Too soft. There's lack of helper spring in LFS :/

Feel free to adjust setup and share it if u think u have done it better ;p

True but I think softer better than higher and stiff. Those cars tend to roll and lean and pivot

Quote from martin18 :

True but I think softer better than higher and stiff.

I tried very soft setup to have that travel on low car but it wasn't good to drive. So it have been adjusted to handle good and take huge jumps without problem.

Problem is settings diffs same as it is in real is the measurements method. In LFS u have locking diffs in % in reality u have locking diffs in kgs.

Just tested this and wow!!! handling, gearing, suspension geometry and body lean, landing jumps, and wo the antilag on the engine sound!! the sound of the engine could be better tunned but wow love this!!!

Quote from martin18 :

Just tested this and wow!!! handling, gearing, suspension geometry and body lean, landing jumps, and wo the antilag on the engine sound!! the sound of the engine could be better tunned but wow love this!!!

Which tires are you testing?

Quote from hooligan_rallyteam :

Which tires are you testing?

Road supers and hybrids. It took my test jump like a champ

In my opiniom base setup is shitty actually. Not that good like it should be.

It’s not perfect but it has good under steer and over steer feel. It has good suspension travel and did break suspension on a 120 mph jump that breaks most cars

OK New, propably finalized version of physics and handicaps in default setup. Please tell what u think about it now and if u have done better setup feel free to send it

I have talked with a rally suspension engineer in the past and he explained to me that most rally cars will have about 200mm of damper travel on a McPherson strut. It’s not uncommon to see less though, 170-180 is very common also. The WRC cars have extremely expensive setups to offset the struts and gain 220-240mm. But that is definitely not affordable. You could probably see about 220mm of total rear wheel travel and about 180-200 front wheel travel. Many many fwd rally cars use 35-50mm offset wheels. 15x6.5-7” is very common or 13x5. 175/70-15 or 165/80-13. The included angle of the strut is probably between 9-12*. So if you set the camber to 0.5* negative, the included angle to 9-12* just enough that the wheel offset doesn’t hit the strut and the scrub radius is slightly negative (inside of the Strut top to ball joint line). You will end up with a very realistic setup. The caster should probably fall between 3.5-5*. A realistic front lower control arm length, in my experience would be between about 270mm to 320mm. The rear lower control arm length would probably be no more than 400mm, that’s probably a bit longer than realistic for many cars but Subaru rear lower lateral links are about 400mm. They’re pretty much the longest of anyone.

As far as 18”. The R5’s use a 20-65-18. Approximately a 225-40-18. The smaller XFG with a 205/40/17 would probably fit alright. Keep up the hard work! Good luck!

Also it is hard without helper springs, but gravel setups don’t tend to use a helper spring. They over damp the suspension to absorb the bumps, and tend to run lighter springs with preload. 5-6kg for a dirt setup is probably the max. With lots more compression damping than a tarmac setup.

If we talking about suspension travel its depends on setup- we doing only tarmac version- not gravel. But 180mm its good value for the start. On Rally2 Fabia rims has 23 of offset, we do 30-50mm. Caster between 3.5-5° its good value for road cars 😉 In these monsters there is between 6° to 8° of caster. Base length of lower control arms is about 500mm. Longer it gets - more camber you have, so its not constant value. Springs which are in use has from 35N/mm to maybe 70N/mm. For canarias with so grippy asphalt they using 6kg, on more slippy surface (wet, cold) they going on 35-40N/mm. That's all information from SRT. Remember that we are doing tarmac spec- we are not driving on dirt/gravel like prymitive animals (😛)
Tires is very hard to understand. LFS don't have nothing like rally slick tires or semislick tires. Only full slicks or shitty road tires (something like uhp ones). In Michelin manual we could see the real width of tire is 210mm- that's suprisingly narrow tires for 18 inch wheels. We can apply that on slicks and we get good grip but also very rapid changes in traction which are so much pain when you do handbrake turn or popular donut. Its practicly impossible. That's why we go for 235 road super tires. It has good grip and allows to drive without rapid changes of traction and everything happens smoothly. Why so much width? Because narrower tires cant handle this car 😁

Thank u RE Amemiya for data u provided. Gravel version will be available too! I will keep 235/40 R17 road supers for 2022 season but I thinking about alternative option on slicks.

In the mean time two things happened:
1. We bought Fiesta Rally4 and copyed it's engine for our Rally Junior class car;
2. Chyrion have made model very similar to my vision and gave me permision to use it and edit to my needs. It's still requires some work bud hardest things are done. THANK U CHYRION!!








Test version 3 of XF Rally is now available for everyone active in this theard.
Shearh for "XF GTI RALLY PRIV TEST 1" and let me know if it's good enough in actual state to share it for public use but still as WIP.

It have three base setups. Two for tarmac rallies and one for racing without handicaps.

Both rally cars uploaded for review!

XF GTi Rally as pro rally car (Rally2/R5)
XF GTi Rally Junior as beginner rally car (Rally4/R2)

Our Rally cars development are currently freezed because... Hiryō Racing is preparing car for GRIP Masters - SUPERstock Touring Championship 2022!
This time we won't use LFS car as a base, we will use actual Hiryō Motors vehicle - Hiryō Peril RS Vision Concept! I'm currently in preparing model stage. We have around one month and I hope it's enought to finish this project. ...In usable state at least...

And again we changing wheels in XF GTi Rally... This time 235/35 R18 and to not upload so little update I'm currently making model update.

Remember that?




In little steps I'm getting closer to this form but...
...not fixing model bugs yet I will try to fix everything as final step.

The base construction is corrected. It drives much better and has great brakes. And all this despite "nogrippysuperroad" tires 😉
If we talking about physics- thats all. Rest is about setup and model.
Maybe if there wiil be model of much more modern hatchback we will go for another tryb to do real R5/Rally2 car.
Our RallyJunior also will get some update when its finally be good and fast no "shittysuperroadtires" too and very good on slicks when you choose rights compounds for front and rear tires (softer for rear)

Little model update incoming...









I'm also trying to make this:

Hey. While ago I started making race version of Tango MPI but at some point, when I tried to make wide body, I realised that the model isn't mirrored so I'm giving up on it and if someone are really patient and he wants to finish it I can send project files.

I updated my old Tweak Mods and started working on something new

Quote from versiu :

Little model update incoming... ...

Why has this excellent mod never been approved?

Quote from T R I C K Y :

Why has this excellent mod never been approved?

I used it to learn LFS Editor and uploaded it too early in development. Physics and sound were good but model, graphics side... ouh... It was rated in early state and it's just tweak mod so very small group of drivers uses it. There's some graphics bugs to fix anyway.

If u look at my modification of Rubies Memolution, u gona see day and night difference in quality. I have even better parts WIP but lack of time to finish anything for now ;/