73 votes ??
Can my cat also vote ??????????????






(If i had a cat )

I saw one person mention bumperdrafting.

If that`s allowed, I will certainly not participate.

I can tell you, if anybody touches my rear, I will brake 100%.
Bumperdraft is not racing

So can we be told - Is bumperdraft"cheating" allowed ?

BTW - I like the oval, but it is misplaced in this series. Fzr beats the Fxr with nearly a second in the hotlaps WR.

Left on the steering wheel, pedal to the metal, and even a noob could beat the fastest fxr.

But we Fxr drivers can have our own race, then I would look forward to this oval race, if bumpercheating is not allowed

Quote from BenjiMC :

Any questions are to be asked here, you must also clarrify these questions.

Do you all know your teams number?
Do you all have the Password and server name for the race?
Do you all have your skins prepared with the IGTC plate?
Are you all aware on how the event will commence?

If you dont know any of these or dont have any of these, please tell me. If all is clear then post here and tell me so.

Hope to see you'se all racing on the day!

Good Luck to all!

I would like to know, if bumperdrafting is allowed on the oval, next time

I certainly do not consider that racing, and I will not participate, if that`s allowed

One disaster after another, hit my team tonigth. E V E R Y T H I N G went wrong, from the start, and all 4 hours

My pc chrashed, i came back, then Teamspeak threw me off. We kindly borrowed from CP. But how do you start TS again, in the middleof the race. Then came safetycar and i minimized windows, and the screen turned black. I shutted Lfs down restarted TS and joined again.

Sighh. Did try to hunt some time back, but made to many mistakes

gearbox sounded like a popcorn machine, and i was slow, in my last stint. Got a lot of blue flags

The blue flags are why i write this. We slow racers shall follow rules, so the faster racers can pass safely. I recon there are no rules for the faster racers, as they drive like they have been drinking.

Not good enough faster racers. STAY IN THE RACELINE, so we know where you are, and only pass when its safe

I got hit time 2.31.55 by the raceleader, don`t know what lap, because I was way behind on the lap counter, but that doesn`t give the leaders special "bully" rigths

Some of the other "blueflaggers" also left the raceline, putting me in an difficult position. Where is he going, what do I do now !??

Blue flag is not a freeway for you fast ppl. It`s a warning, to me, to give you space to overhoal me - SAFELY !

Quote from Blackout :

Maybe I was a bit soft there avoiding contact at all costs because as we know, a small touch can sometimes end up in a bad mess. Next time I stick with my line and let them crash into me. After all, trying to stick a car in to a such narrow gap is the silly thing to do, and imo, dangerous. That's what I'm protesting, not that I lost a position.

Now you waked me up, because that`s dangerous
I don`t understand, why you are so mad about Dennis`s driving - He drives just like a Finn - LOL !

(I think of finnish IRL racers, and Dennis sure is an IRL racer too. He comes from gocarts, and is now driving standard cars, and he`s good at it, also IRL)

I have watched the situation 7 or 8 times, and I can`t see the big problem. It is agressive driving, but illegal, I don`t think.

One other aspect of racing, Lfs or IRL, is to know the opposition well. I only participated in the last two races, and I knew most of the racers, and their style of racing their cars. With that knowledge, you can choose to figth in a corner, or drive safe to try later.

It`s a matter of free choice

Quote from nikimere :

So there are no official complaints then?

No !
I withdraw my complaints, but I would like to hear from the "horn" honker. Why !??

I await that answer

Quote from DratsaB :

First lap I am sorry for. I didn't think you would loose so much speed, thought I could pull in behind you.

Lap 3 (which on T1 you rear ended me, luckily I recovered ) again, I was too wide and was surprised by your braking.

No hard feelings I hope, I paid the price in the end

its Seany btw

No, it doesnt change so much anyway

Aha, that was an Y

Offcourse one must expect trouble in "valley of death", but on the back straigth, near the soft rigth corner, I legally "close the door", for IRL Craig (lap1). Then he honked his horn like a mad person - Is that legal ??

Next incident, is in the upcoming s-combination, I legaly pass a guy named Sean "symbol" - He drove me straight off, in the first corner after. Same person hits me just before valley of death, lap 3, but he looses control and chrashes.

EDIT :
Both incidents, are in the 5 lap race

I would be prepared to help you out

I think the whole uf1000 concept, is appealing to many danes. Could you choose local "coworkers", so I communicated with the danish society, and so on !?

We have a forum, where the danes meet, and it will be an advantage, speaking to them in our native language, because not all danes speaks english

Just an idea

Room for one extra tonigth ?

Team Look will not partcipate. Team is closing in a few days

Quote from Arrow. :

Can you please confirm if arc will/will not participate?

Due to the sad closure of Heart of Racing
Unity-racing.com will take there place

I had to erase this

Quote from CasseBent :

If you really feel that way, you're incredibly ignorant. Just because someone is a mod or admin on the forums, you want them to ditch races to help out people that will most likely wreck anyway? Hell, they might even wreck other people. With a crap set they're at least crashing at the rear of the pack.
If I ever was to be graced with someone asking me for a set, I would also wait until I crashed or finished the race. There's nothing arrogant about that, just because you might be able to type and drive at the same time. I can't, I'd most likely faint if my nose started to itch in the middle of a race.
Your comments are just ignorant

U can`t be danish ?!
LOL !

Danish drivers is covered by vaseline, sitting in leather seats, caring about nobody

1:3.33

And the worst thing is.
A guy/girl comes to the server - Ask for a set in the middle of a race. They tend to ask in the middle of the fastest and most difficult corner.
I send the set, and they drive one or two laps, and then leave again ?

That`s annoying

I seldom ask the aliens for sets
I know I can`t drive them anyway

And I`m lying now - I often ask Partyboy for sets, because his sets suits me well

And don`t do this :

Alland44 can i have your set ?

Please
Please
Please
Please
Please
Please
Please
Please

EDIT :
My point was - Only a handfull of drivers, can drive the real fast sets anyway

Quote from JTbo :

Nascar is that racing series where they race too heavy cars, with very old tech engines, around circle track (ok oval), but racing on circle track is not nascar it is oval racing, I don't know anyone who would call racing uf1000 at oval to nascar, that would not make even sense, uf1000 is not heavy at all.

Nascar is completely different compared to other track racing where actually there is some turns other than left turns. In Nascar there is so much happening under surface that to understand why it is interesting you would need to study quite bit of time, some watch it and think it is crap because they except it to be racing like european circuit racing is.

Well, what you like or not, don't ever call oval racing Nascar, unless you use Nascar cars and rules

Huh !

I know that japanese people, like to play a game. It`s a machine, sitting on the wall, and they have hundreds of them in every gamehall.

Then they put little steel balls in, at the top, and do something with them, on their way down. This is the japanese fruitmachine and nobody else, than the japanese, knows what`s going on

And japanese people has the highest IQ in the world

Could it bee, that US of A, has got the same kind of situation, with oval races, football and baseball. No one in the world understands what`s going on in that games, and the high IQ is for the asians

EDIT :

I don`t want to put the americans down, but someone "over there" elected Bush for president

Quote from Renku :

RE-start feature has to be removed completely. (RE-start - restarting an ongoing race.) Only exeption is when ALL racers on track vote for a restart. And yes, even server admins couldn't RE-start the race.

Quote from evans :

First of all, if you, as the leader of the race, get pissed off because the other drivers vote for a restart, well then maybe you shouldn't be leading in the first place, should you? What I mean is, if you fear the restart, maybe you didn't really earn the place you're in.

Second, I do realize that restarting 2-3 times for every completed race gets annoying, but it's to secure that the race gets going with as large a pack as possible, which leads me onto the third and final thing. There really is nothing more boring and anticlimactic than winning a race with only a tenth of the starters left - and even worse, they're spread all over the track with huge gaps in between. Didn't we come here to race?

I'm usually pretty good at escaping the turn one trouble, but I hate to see my competition just disappear completely, because they got tangled up in some stupid incident and people don't want to restart. Hell, sometimes I even vote for a restart myself, even though I might be leading.

I'll say it again: If you fear the restart, maybe you shouldn't be in your position in the first place.

Don't fear the reap.. erh, the restart!

Then you have invited the wrong people to your competition. People have to learn, that agressive starts is punished. That you don`t do with restarts allowed

So there should not be any fear of restarts, because the option should be turned off ! As simple as that

EDIT:
A spelling error was corrected

Last edited by alland44, Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:32.

Hallo people !

There should be absolutely no restarts. Once the race is on, it`s on
If someone has caused problems in the start - Punish him/them instead.

BTW restarts in Lfs often are for the "incrowd" - When they are not in the lead - They whine restart all the time. When they have a start that suits them, then they don`t care about all the chrashes in the back of the pack.

read "incrowd" as them who rules the specific server.

restarts are for whiners

I can see only one situation, where restarts are relevant. If you are only 3 or 4 drivers on a server, and the most drivers crashes in the T1 - Then it`s plausible. I allways let the race leader decide, whether there should be at restart or not

I know racers which will not show up, on a server with restarts allowed.

I am absolutely for = NO RESTARTS - At all !

I just read those $notes, and found out, that I was punished that date ??
Why haven`t I heard about before ?

Where is the proof, replay and such !?

Nice !, guys and girl

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Well what I am really saying is that you'll find anecdotal "data" in the mouths of everyone with respect to vehicle dynamics whether they've driven any level of vehicle on the street or track or not. In my experience humans tend to process the same sensory input in a multitude of fashions, just like your audiophile analogy. As an audiophile one could start comparing waveforms of live performances versus a recording and so forth, which would be much more objective (although impractical obviously for lots of reasons, but this is all for the take of illustration) than audiophile Bob arguing with audiophile Tristan over which one sounds better "to them".

I beleive that a sim should not aim to recreate the feeling of driving / racing, but rather aim for the most accurate possible objective representation regardless of the feeling. Theoretically they should meet somewhere, but that's not necessarily the case for each individual right off the bat. LFS has tons of doodads present to aid one in the "feeling" department - adjustment of head movement on every axis based on G forces, FOV adjustment, controller adjustment and whatnot.... With an accurate representation, OR an inaccurate one, eventually your brain will start to "calibrate" itself to the subjective feeling your discern from a said sim. Of course, certain things just don't make physical sense in some sims (different things from sim to sim it seems) and that's a different topic I suppose.

You are using false terms, my friend
Audiophiles don`t live a subjective life. HiFi is very objective, because it`s trying to recreate the IRL experience, at home

You can`t argue about the sound of a violin or cello ! Either its the real sound, or it`s not

Audiophiles uses a lot of money, to get the "real deal" and your argument is the thinnest I`ve ever seen.

If you leave out the term "Audiophile" and put in young people - Then I can accept your reasoning Young ppl give a shit about the quality of sound, as long as it`s high, and there iss a hell lot of base

That`s the same with Lfs and Rfactor. Lfs is classical music and Rfactor is poprock, with noise guitars

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Most of any physics engine is really not that complicated - inertia, weight transfer, force, mass blah blah blah. Stuff that if you get wrong, you shouldn't be designing a sim to begin with. The acceleration gravity imposes is 9.81m/s/s - that sort of thing. Note I'm not saying dreadfully simple, but rather information that is easy to understand and implement if you have the background.

The problem comes with the physics of tire modelling - how tires interact with the road, how they respond under different loads, and how they behave in a variety of different situations. Of course, that is an extremely dynamic problem, and data is not widely available or easy to obtain regarding the more intricate secrets of the subject. Tire modelling is the crux of any physics engine (well, for driving sims :razz

There are a few things that make the LFS tire modelling stand out:
1) Tire flex is modelled. Not just mathematically, but even graphically. This allows for the deformation of the tires in real time. Try experimenting with different tire pressures and note how it affects handling, and how the tires respond to different pressures.

2) The lateral slip behaviour of the tires is much more accurate. Exceeding the lateral limit of grip generally imposes an unwelcome and physically inaccurate unrecoverable slide in ISI sims. This has been discussed at length here on the forum, and generally speaking a dropoff in lateral force does not occur when moving past the peak slip angle for a given road car tire. No publically (and arguably any proprietary) available data shows as drastic of a dropoff as is present. Some data that a member dug up showed a comparably mild drop off with very high camber (-9 degrees) but this is very unusual. This is IMO the largest problem you'll encounter in those sims. To counter, LFS currently has some issues with longitudinal grip at very (very) high slip ratios. It's likely based on developer comments that this is being rectified. Many other sims behave that way though, as the myth of drop-off on lateral grip curves has been around for decades - and is only now being discovered to be false.

3) LFS has a universal physical model which means that the tire calcs are done through a set of proprietary formulae, and are the same for each vehicle. The physics engine handles the properties of each car in the game in the same way. ISI sims have separate physics "files" for vehicles which in my opinion shows that the nature of the physics engine is subpar, since numbers must be "fudged" in order to get the desired response. This was also discussed at length on the RSC forums, and here.

4) The heat modelling on the tires in LFS is also very interesting in that it allows for flatspots. Wear and temperature and done very nicely in LFS, where there tire is divided up into 48 sampling areas per tire (1 around and 3 across) - plus sidewalls and internal air temp.

All of these things allow for a much more dyanamic tyre modelling system. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the local expert (who happens to be writing his own sim, and has writen others in the past) who plays all sims also agrees that the end result of the LFS tire model is the best out there at the moment, save for possibly his own and another unreleased pseudo-secret project (perhaps you've heard of Racing Legends).

There's a plethora of other reasons why LFS is my sim of choice, but I think tire modelling is the most important reason, and most related to your original question.

I would say. Center of gravity is not moving, therefore it`s a question about momentum, when you calculate a car, moving, braking or whatever it does

Offcourse tyres and springs, are variables, but the car is a simple box with fixed center of gravity.

Quote from Bodhidharmazen :

Gracias Chanoman

All I can say is what I feel, and Im intrigued to see why some people feel different about the same issue. One reason that can make fans of any game to feel that other games are "wrong" is that they are simply accustomed to a particular physics engine.

As far as I can tell, the only measure of realism we can get would be making double blind tests. We should pick up people from the street, that meet some criteria (they drive a car, love races and know nothing about PCs simulations for example). Then we should take them to a place in which the computer will start either LFS or rFactor (or some other game) without the researchers knowing if the subject are driving one or the other.


Then a list of questions are answered by the subjects, regarding physics qualities like inertia, weight transfer, feedback to the wheel, continuity of trajectories, etc. etc.

For me, this would be the only way to determine which one feels more "real".

NO !

We gotta test IRL racedrivers
Ppl who knows everything about racing a car