The rather harsh post race penalties given by the admins last round deserve a comment.
Minor points penalties like used in the IGTC is a better way of handling your post race admining/judging, instead of 1-5 laps penalties. Worse case scenario your lap penalties might result in a major positions drop for one team but only a minor or no at all position drop for another team - for similar punishable actions, because it all depends on the race outcome.
Like seen last round two team (SR) received a minus 4 race positions penalty in the final standings while the other team (us) "only" got a minus 3 position drop for what you declared as "unsafe track reentry". The same admin judging/reasoning both incidents resulting in different penalties.
Something else looks "questionable" here:
While it was according to the existing rules these penalties in our oppinion were way out of proportions. We strongly feel that there needs to be a better balance between penalties handed out for incidents DURING the race compared to AFTER the race, if admins feel the urge to post-race react.
Incidents like:
-Agressive driving*
-Dangerous attempts*
-Aggressive cuttings*
-Dangerous passes*
-Causing avoidable incidents*
-Careless rejoining the track after a pitstop and causing a crash*
so far have never resulted in post-race lap dedutions by admins for any team. The outcome of some of these incidents were even worse then the two incidents you punished with a final 4 race positions and 3 race positions drop penalty last round and it will be interesting to see the admin penalty decisions on the upcoming rounds. MoE admins after these post-race penalies have now provided us some scale.
Finally, last round a team got a warning for not obeying the yellow flag. We think that the MoE league should have some rules on yellow flag situations. In endurance racing people are going to make mistakes, there will be accidents and cars might as well end up stationary on the racing line. There is nothing about yellow flag behaviour to be found in the MoE rules.
TDRT - The Danish Racing Team
* incidents during races resulting in warnings, DT and SG penalties round 1&2.
Minor points penalties like used in the IGTC is a better way of handling your post race admining/judging, instead of 1-5 laps penalties. Worse case scenario your lap penalties might result in a major positions drop for one team but only a minor or no at all position drop for another team - for similar punishable actions, because it all depends on the race outcome.
Like seen last round two team (SR) received a minus 4 race positions penalty in the final standings while the other team (us) "only" got a minus 3 position drop for what you declared as "unsafe track reentry". The same admin judging/reasoning both incidents resulting in different penalties.
Something else looks "questionable" here:
While it was according to the existing rules these penalties in our oppinion were way out of proportions. We strongly feel that there needs to be a better balance between penalties handed out for incidents DURING the race compared to AFTER the race, if admins feel the urge to post-race react.
Incidents like:
-Agressive driving*
-Dangerous attempts*
-Aggressive cuttings*
-Dangerous passes*
-Causing avoidable incidents*
-Careless rejoining the track after a pitstop and causing a crash*
so far have never resulted in post-race lap dedutions by admins for any team. The outcome of some of these incidents were even worse then the two incidents you punished with a final 4 race positions and 3 race positions drop penalty last round and it will be interesting to see the admin penalty decisions on the upcoming rounds. MoE admins after these post-race penalies have now provided us some scale.
Finally, last round a team got a warning for not obeying the yellow flag. We think that the MoE league should have some rules on yellow flag situations. In endurance racing people are going to make mistakes, there will be accidents and cars might as well end up stationary on the racing line. There is nothing about yellow flag behaviour to be found in the MoE rules.
TDRT - The Danish Racing Team
* incidents during races resulting in warnings, DT and SG penalties round 1&2.
Last edited by dktoben, .
#18 The Danish Racing Team
GT1 FXR
DR-kyosho, Dino Ratcliffe, United Kingdom
Fastwalker, Belgium
R.kolz, Rudi Kolz, Denmark
Dktoben, Torben Jessen, Denmark
GT1 FXR
DR-kyosho, Dino Ratcliffe, United Kingdom
Fastwalker, Belgium
R.kolz, Rudi Kolz, Denmark
Dktoben, Torben Jessen, Denmark
Last edited by kristofferandersen, .
#18 - The Danish Racing Team skin for 6h of Westhill
Can we please see the full standing list ??
There is more than 8 persons who scored points in this round !
How do you think our R4's will be then ?
Well, I'm very agreed with the posts above. South City was a difficult track with not much space. The next tracks will be much more open with plenty of space, and I therefore see no reason for any rulechange. Keep it as it is, and there wont happent anything again
Sign me up aswell..
[TDRT] T.Jessen
[TDRT] T.Jessen
#18 The Danish Racing Team
GT1 FXR
DR-Kyosho, Dino Ratcliffe, United Kingdom
Mikael92, Mikael Svensson, Sweden
SniperG, Gerd Noll, Germany
R.Kolz, Rudi Kolz, Denmark
dktoben, Torben Jessen, Denmark
GT1 FXR
DR-Kyosho, Dino Ratcliffe, United Kingdom
Mikael92, Mikael Svensson, Sweden
SniperG, Gerd Noll, Germany
R.Kolz, Rudi Kolz, Denmark
dktoben, Torben Jessen, Denmark
Questions about round 8:
1. Why wasn´t the lagging car forced to make a driver change after 2 lag accidents caused by it plus a third team complaining about that it´s hard to follow/approach this lagging car?
Q. MISCELLANEOUS
3) In situations of extreme lag, marshals will ask a lagging driver and/or his team to fix the problem. From the time of notification, the team has three laps to fix the situation or make a driver change. After the three laps have expired, if the problem is not fixed the car will no longer be scored. If the lag persists, the driver will be kicked for the safety of the other teams.
The appology about this lag accident by this racer is fully accepted. No bad feelings and nothing they could have done to prevent these accididents.
The not taking action by the admins acc. to the rules is not accptable.
The damage to the TDRT car caused by this accident made the car unsteerable and the following pitstop with damage repair once more left us behind on a very last race position. The IGTC admins made a team a huge present - the prob. final 3rd overall position IGTC 2008.
2. Had the pitlane been closed acc. to the rules at any time this round? If not, what was the reason not to do it ?
Just my thoughts about this final IGTC round.
1. Why wasn´t the lagging car forced to make a driver change after 2 lag accidents caused by it plus a third team complaining about that it´s hard to follow/approach this lagging car?
Q. MISCELLANEOUS
3) In situations of extreme lag, marshals will ask a lagging driver and/or his team to fix the problem. From the time of notification, the team has three laps to fix the situation or make a driver change. After the three laps have expired, if the problem is not fixed the car will no longer be scored. If the lag persists, the driver will be kicked for the safety of the other teams.
The appology about this lag accident by this racer is fully accepted. No bad feelings and nothing they could have done to prevent these accididents.
The not taking action by the admins acc. to the rules is not accptable.
The damage to the TDRT car caused by this accident made the car unsteerable and the following pitstop with damage repair once more left us behind on a very last race position. The IGTC admins made a team a huge present - the prob. final 3rd overall position IGTC 2008.
2. Had the pitlane been closed acc. to the rules at any time this round? If not, what was the reason not to do it ?
Just my thoughts about this final IGTC round.
I have to agree on all of it. Way too many people did not respect the blue flag and serveral of secs. were lost. Of course it isn't possible to overtake all whitout sometimes losing a second or two, but driving behind a lapped driver for 3 laps for finally finding a little chance outbreak him is just too much IMO.
After our timeout 1½ hour through the race we definitely felt how much this rule wasn't observed. When people don't see any blue flag they don't want to let you by and every overtaking was a hard battle, mostly ending up with a very late breaking manoeuvre.
That really costs much in the long run, both for the lapping car and the lapped car.
At some point I don't understand some drivers. When you see a car comming close up to you before you even can count to 5, why then battle it and lose seconds, instead of just let him by?
As the rules recommends you really should have at non-driving person or a waiting driver to constantly follow the tracker and inform your racing teammates who is in front and behind you.
Finally I'll just bring a "thanks" to these drivers few drivers this round who really were friendly to let us/me by - without any big problems.
After our timeout 1½ hour through the race we definitely felt how much this rule wasn't observed. When people don't see any blue flag they don't want to let you by and every overtaking was a hard battle, mostly ending up with a very late breaking manoeuvre.
That really costs much in the long run, both for the lapping car and the lapped car.
At some point I don't understand some drivers. When you see a car comming close up to you before you even can count to 5, why then battle it and lose seconds, instead of just let him by?
As the rules recommends you really should have at non-driving person or a waiting driver to constantly follow the tracker and inform your racing teammates who is in front and behind you.
Finally I'll just bring a "thanks" to these drivers few drivers this round who really were friendly to let us/me by - without any big problems.
Standings on www.lfsigtc.net arren't updated since last round yet
Last edited by dktoben, .
Penalties are now send to the involves, so they now have the ordinary 48 hours to defend themself, after that the official results will be postet!
As we promised, can you now download a movie, of what we think were the best race in round 1 
http://http://www.megaupload.com/dk/?d=0V44DFEV.
The file is 105mb, so if someone don't wanna download that, you can see it here in very bad quality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guzq_IQnwYc
We are atm working with the last penalties, and after that the official results and standings will be uploaded.
Have fun with the movie
EDIT: Changed URL, so if anybody had some problems, it now should be fixed
http://http://www.megaupload.com/dk/?d=0V44DFEV.
The file is 105mb, so if someone don't wanna download that, you can see it here in very bad quality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guzq_IQnwYc
We are atm working with the last penalties, and after that the official results and standings will be uploaded.
Have fun with the movie
EDIT: Changed URL, so if anybody had some problems, it now should be fixed
Last edited by dktoben, .
Hmm, it can't go wrong now, and if goes we really have desirved a DT
I'm very agreed.. It's pretty confusing, but if all know what they are for, shouldn't there be any reasons not to remove it!
But yes, atleast do something to make it diffrent from the "real" one!
But yes, atleast do something to make it diffrent from the "real" one!
Grrrr, why do you put a race when i am on holiday ?
Good race to all of you, I'll figure out a way to follow it !
Good race to all of you, I'll figure out a way to follow it !
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG