Sure, most of the formula cars and many race sports cars have the sequential manual gearboxes. Some of those have an automatic throttle cut for shifting. For upshifts, many times the clutch is not even used. For downshifts it typically is used with the sports cars.

Having manual blips and lifts is as realistic as it gets, especially when you are talking about sports cars. For the formula cars, it was not that many years ago when the automatic engine controls did not exist and it was all manual. So, the only cars in LFS where the automatic blip is somewhat realistic is for the formula cars. I think you will find that even if you have manual lift for upshift turned on, you don't need to bother doing it for the formual cars. They shift quick enough that you don't spike RPM's anyway. I do a manual blip for downshifting. It gives you more control and helps to keep you from locking the drive wheels. This gives you more control for hard braking.

Quote from mantis9 :

Nice pics Hallen! Not sure who the guy in the last one is though

Thanks for the comments. For those of you who don't really know, the last picture is of Andy Wallace. At this race he was driving the Dyson team P1 car. Almost took the win, but the car ran out of gas on the second to last lap. DOH!

That was one of the very cool things about this race. They had an autograph session before the race. I met Andy, James Weaver, JJ Lehto, Ron Fellows, Johnny O'Connel, Wolf Henzler, Robin Liddel, and a bunch more drivers. It was a blast. I have cool autographed posters from all of them.

My last event was the American LeMans Series in Portland, Oregon. Had the RV setup right by the track.

These are big pictures so 56k people, beware.

With so many possibilities to paint realy cool and even artistic stuff on these cars, why would people want to go the sleazy easy route? Ah well, such is life. (And no, I do not find nudity offensive. There is just the right time and place for such things.)

Also, most important... get the tires up to temp before pushing the car. Get the setups linked above. They are very good. I use them and I do respectible times with most of the cars (1:26.4x Blackwood GTT)

Use the F9 key to see the tire temps. The outer tred shows the surface temp. The inner part of the tire shows the internal temp. Optimally, you want to see a nice solid green. If you see red, the tire will be very slippery. If it is blue, the tire is cold and won't have a lot of grip.
Make a couple of easy laps first and get your tire temp up. Then start pushing a bit. I think you will find that there is more grip there than you think.
Also, don't just pound the gas to the floor when exiting the corner with the GTT. It will spin the wheels and you will spin. Ease into the gas. You will get the feel for it and you wil be able to push it harder.

Please stop the madness; don't you see what that evil beer can do to you


I really like that little two step dance thing the girl behind him is doing

Well, I know this leaves a LOT to be desired, but it is my first ever render. Thanks for the tips posted so far. This has a lot of work left to do, but I was so happy to get anything even close that I had to post it

Quote from operator0 :

Ask and you shall receive . http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=681

Finally got a chance to watch the race. Great Stuff! You two had a heck of a good battle there. Bet you were sweating a bit after that one
Too bad that back marker got in your way, would have been a bit closer at the end. But them's the breaks.

You can even assigne one button as the "Shift" button and get a whole set of other shifted buttons to use. I do this for my pit arrow keys, they are the shifted directional buttons that I normally use for the look functions.

Quote from Gimpster :

The basic point is this, once someone is in the draft and pulls out to pass its already too late to block. I will make multiple line adjustments on a straight for one reason only, to break or prevent a draft. Once a draft has been caught its already too late to block safely. If someong intends to pass there really is nothing you can safely do to prevent it. Defensive driving and blocking are two different things and need to be addressed seperatly in my opinion.

Absolutely.

You may be slow, or dyslexic. Check out your sig...

Are you using the latest version of the Logitech profiler? I have not trouble with mine in what ever number of degree mode I want to set using the profiler. I have to fight sometimes when switching games for the profiler to realize that a new config should be used, but I never have on-center problems.Does your wheel go through the full cycles of lock to lock in 900° mode and in the limited ° mode when you start up the computer or plug in the controller?

One thing I notice when I installed a second controll was that all the buttons and controls on my wheel got renumbered. Something silly like unplugging one controller and letting it remove itself and then plugging it back in might rearange the assignments so that you do see the slide. Not much of an idea, but worth a shot.

Also, did the clutch come with a special driver? I don't think they do if you don't have the HDUSB system. I am assuming that Windows sees the controller and that you can configure it via the Control panel.

Let me know how it goes, I just ordered the same sytem this week.

If someone takes a defensive line, that is fine. If someone does an inside out reverse on me and repassess me, wow, great move man! But if someone weaves in front of me, especially after I have caught a draft and have momentum, well once they will get away with, but more than that and they are going to get punted. Just a little nudge to destablize them in a turn with the intent to not wreck him or me. I don't like blocking especially if we are driving the same car. If we are in the same car, and I am consitently faster, then it is my responsibility to try and get past cleanly. If the other driver is erratic and intentionally blocking, well then they have shown that they have no regard for me or clean racing.

Now, having said all that, I have never actually done it. I said it to prove a point. But, if blocking does happen, I guarantee you it will happen. Maybe not by me, but someone will do it. That is why leagues usually have some type of policy on blocking to keep the mayham down to the minimum.

Driving different car types things get more complicated. For example, LX6 vs the FZ50. The LX6 will be faster in the corners and the FZ will be faster on the straights. This leads to the LX6 guy getting passed on all long straights, and the FZ driver getting passed in the corners. Lap after lap. The FZ will slow the LX6 down a lot, but the LX6 does not really slow the FZ down because it is pretty easy to pass with power on straights. It will get pretty frustrating, but as long as the drivers are not blocking... that's racing.
Pro leagues are a different thing. They race for real, real money, real life stuff. Blocking is dangerous and so is getting punted. If the league wants to draw a bigger, more ignorant croud, then they "let" drivers get away with more bumping and rubbing than really needs to be there. I would much prefer to watch a hard fought battle over several laps where both drivers never tough each other, but somehow, a pass is made. Sure, the leading driver will take a defensive line, but blocking is different.

heheheheh very funny ideas here guys.illepall But ya know that the more stuff they try and stuff into the program, the less stuff will be spot on perfect. Nothing would ever really get fully finished.

While we are dreaming though, I throw my vote in for LMP 1 & 2 prototypes

Quote from BBO@BSR :

Another thing is, you said "intentionally finished poorly". Have you ever seen a full F1, DTM or BTCC series or another one. Heared about Team orders and Race or Team strategies? I don't think that this is unsportsman like (well sometimes not attractive for the viewers) but It's one BIG part of racing series all around the globe. Sometimes they do it without letting the audience know and sometimes not. So for me it's not unfair to think about strategies or plan races to archieve the best possible Team endresult in a season.

I am not going to dispute that this stuff does go on. However, the F1 rules specifically state that there shall be no "Team Orders", there is no #1 driver. I am just saying that don't take the path of thinking that it is not unsportsman like. It is unsportsman like. It is unethical. If you are OK with that, then there is nothing I can do about that. Just because the big race teams pull these kinds of tricks does not make it OK and it does not make it right. There is no money involved here, there is nothing to win other than bragging rights. It is not the same as professional racing. This is for fun. Look at it this way, if you are unwilling to exactly state what you did publically, then you probably should not have done it.

The spirit of the rule you quoted is to promote good racing and to give all drivers a chance at finishing well, especially if they had an unfortunate incident in the first race. If drivers sandbag the first race in order to start better for the second race (which had the majority of points), it goes against the spirit of the rule. It is still up to you to decide because the rules cannot specifically state everything that you should not do and there would be no real way to police it anyway.

Personally, I am extremely pleased with my results from this mini-season. I had a couple of good races and finished pretty well. I would have been really happy to finish 1st. But that achievement would really mean nothing if I had to use questionable "strategies" to get there.

Last edited by Hallen, Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:29.

So, just reading between the lines, the only reason somebody would have been really upset about not using a reverse order start for the main race is if they had sandbagged (intentionally finished poorly) the qualifying race. Sandbagging may not be a breach of the stated rules, but it certainly is a breach of the spirit of the rules and is generally considered to be unsportsman like conduct in real racing series.
I am not saying this is what happened. But just seeing how some racers were really upset that it was not reverse order, it seems that something was going on. I would have been upset if it were a reverse order start because I was doing my best in the first race to get a good start position in the second race.

The issue with the player disconnecting and then reconnecting and racing is a bit of an issue. It sounds like the league is addressing this problem. I do know that other leagues give points for laps finished so that players can rejoin and try and gain a few points at least.

I see no problem if team members try to arrange their hotlaps so they all race on the same server, it can be more fun that way. But that would be assuming that the team drivers were close in speed in the first place and that they would have most likely all been on that server anyway. I have posted hotlaps that were not my best for that reason, but I would have been on the lower server anyway because my best speed was not that much faster. After my first few league races when I was used to the procedures, well then it was every driver for themselves

Either way the points go, hotlapping is like qualifying in a real race. Some people are good at it, some people are not. Some people are better at managing a real race and will generally finish well no matter what server they are on. The fact remains that if you qualify further up, you have a better chance for more points.

However, some people are in it to win races, and the server and resulting points don't make much difference. They will post a "sandbag" hot lap to insure they get on a server where they can win the race. If the point system does not take this into account, then there will be some very fast racers opting to post a hotlap that puts them onto a lower server so they can win there and possibly gain more points than they could on the higher server.

I have also seen the case where a person is able to post a fast hotlap, but they are terribly inconsistent, and don't have a clue how to drive in traffic. These people are generally outclassed durring the race and have a tendency to just get in the way.

The Hotlap system has flaws, but so does every other system of setting the grid. We could use average times from the last race, or the last race's finishing time overall to set the grid for the next race. But this won't work unless we use the same cars all the time.

There is no perfect system and some people will do silly things to try and take advantage of it. Personnally, I am just looking for good races and the league has done a fine job of that so far.

First of all I want to thank the "Fiendi's" for their hard work. Running something like this is never easy, but it is much appreciated.

Second, I want to echo Pab's suggestion of setting up a paypal account to accept volentary donations. I have donated to other leagues and would be more than happy to donate to yours. I know that you most likely want to keep the league open to everyone and do not want to hang any financial responsibility on this. That is OK. I view donations as a way of saying thanks for the races, even if another one is never held again.

Third, One of the quirky things about human nature is our ability to form groups and recognize the authority of the group. You are in the unenviable position as the leaders of our little community. This means that when somebody is disgruntled, they will expect you to fix it for them. Either way, somebody has to make the decisions and enforce the rules. Without this kind of guidance, the league would be sure to fail. Some people might not like it, and some will feel they were treated unfairly, but guess what... that's life. This is entertainment for us all and the people joining in must accept that there will be mistakes and there will be situations that they will not come out ahead on. It is just the way it is.

Keep up the good work. You are running a professional quality league.

I have had a lot of fun (and yes, frustration) in the races. The frustration comes from not finishing as well as I felt I should have. It is on me to fix that, not the league.

This last race is a good example of what can happen that is the fault of nobody. Going into the last turn on lap 5, the driver in front of me made a mistake and slowed way down on entry to the last corner. I had to brake much harder than normal and got a tad sideways. My exit speed on the corner was very slow because of it. Fiendi came around the corner with no grip budget left and there I was, floundering around trying to get up to speed. He was left with nowhere to go and he banged into me. I spun off into the wall, damaging the front suspension. I was 1/2 to 1 second slower per lap than normal after that. I was lucky to be able to take a couple of positions back, but finished much further back than expected. This was a classic "racing incedent" that nobody wanted to happen. There is nobody to blame. Things like this happen. I was not happy about it, but I am not mad at anybody because of it. Life goes on and there will be another race

Quote from bobvanvliet :

Has this ever been mentioned on RSC? Probably, right?

Anyhoo, people already use artificial rolling starts in for example the endurance league, so why not have support standard in LFS?

I'm thinking the effort outweighs the bennefit... for now anyway.
I think most people would agree that it would be a cool and much appreciated improvement.
Oh, yeah, it has been mentioned on RSC

Quote from mrfell :

if there comes a time when you see a smidgen of a chance, you'll go for it!! And i reckon that goes for all drivers with a competitve racing streak in them!!!

And that is where I disagree. "A smidgen of a chance" is not a "good chance". It is a banzia maneuver if it is a smidgen of a chance and more often than not, will cause a T1 pileup. If there is a good chance that you can pull it off, then go for it. It has nothing to do with being competitive, it has to do with good judgment. If I wreck in turn 1, I have no chance to win the race. If I choose not to make a risky lunge for a pass on turn 1 and ride it out, then I still have a chance to win. But nothing risked nothing gained… and since you are not risking life, limb, property, or lawsuits, I guess people will continue to use ultra risky moves.



I tend to think more about longer races and league races when talking about this. If you are talking about a 5 lapper on AS1, well, that race could be won on turn 1.

It is a pointless question that is self directed. A person will answer with what they are used to. There is no preference.

Me, I prefer Knots.

However, looking at a KPH analog speedometer, there are too many numbers on there and it is hard to read. For the digital dispay, the numbers jump around too much (Just in reference to LFS and not RL).

Quote from operator0 :

So, it's not black and white.

Absolutely.

The overtaking move that you were talking about, sure that is ligitimate. It may make me mad, but that's racing. You do it cleanly and under control and clearly take the position with time to spare, then go for it. I will see you and I will try to pinch you, but I won't ram you (unless I goof).
I was mostly referring to people who try and force their way past when they see just a hint of daylight. They ignore what is happening with the other cars in front and they generally are carrying too much speed.

Those incedents that you talk about are going to happen, unfortunately. It is frustrating. Like I said before though, don't confuse fault with responsibility. The other driver has a responsibility too. Drive consistently, know the track, don't cut people off, don't make stupid moves. There are just a lot of people out there right now who don't take the time to learn the car or the track off line and they are going to be very unpredictable. Race em' and hope for the best.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Cars never get towed back to the pits whilst the race is in progress. They get towed out of the way, then at the END of the race, they get towed back, usually along the track.

True, but not the case for cars stuck in the sand. The sand is usually in a place where cars often go off. This makes the stuck car a hazard. Generally those cars are towed out of the sand. For sports cars, it is very common that they can restart and re-enter the race. Sure, they have lost laps, but they are not out of the event.
Bottom line, we do this for fun, and we do it for the competition. This is NOT real world stuff. If I join a server to race a 40, 50, or more lap race, and on lap 15, I get pushed into the sand by another car, well too bad for me. My fun is over. I have no chance at all in the race now. I will not pass anybody. I have to jump to the pits, lose all my laps and start over. I think the "tow" option would be nice in this case. I have as of yet never damaged a car so much that I could not drive to the pits. I don't have to lose all my laps. Why is it then that a simple slip into the sand ends my day? The sand forces you to jump to the pits. Having an option that disallows this is OK, but the tow option should be available too. Maybe it is enabled as a super slow reset that puts your car back on the the edge of the track when no other trafic is in the area (like GPL). The reset process could take a minute or more to do.
You don't want to make this sim more frustrating than fun. And this is not like just joining up on some random server and racing. What I am talking about is a organized league race when you have dedicated time and hours of practice to the competition. Then bam, you are screwed. That is a very disheartening occurance and one that is NOT fun. This is an online racing simulator, but guys get real; it is simply entertainment. Being stuck in the sand is not entertainment. Nobody complained about the sand is S1 when all the cars could get out of it. Maybe that is the solution too. Just let all the cars drive out of the sand and we are fixed.

I think one of the points here is that it is very unlikely that you can drive and brake on the limit going into turn one unless you are in front. Especially for large grids, there is no way to know what your speed will be and where the correct brake point will be. Basically, it is infinitely variable. That is why you leave yourself a bit of extra room. Plus, the accordian affect will happen and the field will back up, it is unavoidable. This will further modify the braking point.

Nothing is more annoying than having avoided ramming the guy in front of you who seemed to brake early, but really wasn't because he had to avoid the guy in front of him. Then, starting to make your turn into the apex, there is some bonzia driver diving in thinking to take advantage of the "opening". I have to move to the outside of the corner to insure I don't get wrecked because bonzia dude is carrying too much speed. The bonzia dude is all proud of himself for making a clean pass on turn one, when in actuallity his "skillful" driving is only in his head. The truth is, I was the one who avoided the accident that was going to be caused by bonzia dude by giving the room to allow him to get the car back under control. And all of this after I had to drive cautiously to avoid the inevitable accordian affect going into turn one. I have had this happen time and again. I usually gain the positions back a few laps later, but it is still annoying.

I have made clean passes on turn one plenty of times, but I did not have to drive on the edge to do it, and I did not have to force my way through. I keep the car under control, going slower than I normally would for that corner, and wouldn't you know it, somebody will overshoot the apex because they tried to push too hard, and I am in.

True, it is not always your fault when you hit somebody in front of you. That does not change the fact that it is the following driver's responsibility to avoid hitting the car in front. You seem to be confusing fault with responsibility, they are two different things. Plus, the driver in front has the right to the corner. You can't dive in and block the apex if there is no reasonable chance of the driver in front seeing the move or being able to modify his line enough to avoid you. The car in front should not have to try and avoid you when you are making a passing manuever unless you are clearly along side the other car.

Last edited by Hallen, Wed, 17 Aug 2005 05:25.