Not a bad result me thinks.

That vettel penalty was a tough call. Hard to tell whether vettel pushed alonso wide or just drove his line as alonso's outside pass attempt was probably not something vettel was expecting. Borderline racing incident/wort a penalty.

Remember to make changes to your team and make the bets!

Better at least get rid of Grosjean as his place is taken by Ambrosio in this race!

Quote from PMD9409 :

i am 12 wat is this

Happy 12th birthday philippe.

From autosport forums:

DRS:
2 DRS zones. One on the main straight and the other the straight after turn 7.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/201 ... nzas-drs-zones-shortened/

Race information:
Number of Laps: 53
Circuit Length: 5.793 km
Race Distance: 307 km
Full Throttle: 76%
Brake Wear: High
Downforce Level: Low

Source: link

Weather:
http://www.autosport.com/f1/weather.html

Timetable:
Practice 1 Fri 8:00-9:30
Practice 2 Fri 12:00-13:30
Practice 3 Sat 9:00-10:00
Qualifying Sat 12:00-13:00
The Race Sun 12:00-14:00

All times in GMT and may be totally wrong

2011 results:
hhttp://www.formula1.com/results/season/2011/856/

Live timing:
http://www.formula1.com/live_timing/

Personally I'd suggest those who voted ron paul to go actually check what he thinks about various issues. He a good talker and stuff he says makes him look good in tv but in the end he is just as hard liner and imho extreme right wing as those romneys and such. He just does not come off as a religious biggot because no one has seen interviews about him where he talks about those issues as well. Most people only know him from his economical speeches but there is more to him than just that.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.c ... o_population_has_rise.php

I'm sure in two years your country will be called Amexica.

Personally I think romney is just as crazy as ron paul. Obama seems the least crazy of those so I'd guess I'd vote him.

bonus question is up:
http://www.f1racemanager.com/bonusquestion.asp

flymike is many things but him being islamophobic is a new one to me. Not surprising though

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

In Australia?

That makes sense because if it was done normally in australia it would be upside down in the picture.

Maybe it was originally done upside down?

Pretty horrible result compared to what I was expecting after quali

maldonado lololol?

Looks like their server is really struggling. Having some problems trying to update my team... I think I'll try to get some sauber/lotus thing going on this time...

Kimi looks pretty good. And mercs seem to be struggling a lot.

Remember to make your bets and make changes to your team!

About the gog carmageddon version:
https://twitter.com/GOGcom/status/240943186657288192

DRS:
FIA modified DRS activation point - Now is 320m after T4, so 50m later than 2011
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/201 ... 9/f1-fanatic-roundup-298/

Race information:
Number of Laps: 44
Circuit Length: 7.004 km
Race Distance: 308.052 km
Full Throttle: 75%
Brake Wear: Low
Downforce Level: 5/10

Source: link

Weather:
http://www.autosport.com/f1/weather.html

Timetable:
Fri 31 August 2012
Practice 1 8:00 - 9:30
Practice 2 12:00 - 13:30
Sat 01 September 2012
Practice 3 9:00 - 10:00
Qualifying 12:00
Sun 02 September 2012
Race 12:00

All times in GMT and may be totally wrong

2011 results:
http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2011/858/

Live timing:
http://www.formula1.com/live_timing/

Quote from Racer X NZ :

I'm not discussing what the correct time in prison is for any offence, I'm just pointing out the fact that if someone is wrongfully convicted then it's easier to attempt to redress this issue if you havn't killed them.

The basic problem with that idea is that it simply suggests the justice system is unreliable. If it can not credibly and reliably sentence people to death then can it reliably sentence anyone at all? If we have to leave out death sentence from the "toolbox" because we don't trust the justice system then isn't the logical conclusion from that that the justice system in itself is unreliable and is at least in need of serious makeover?

Basically you are saying the explanation for long sentences is: we believe without doubt that you are guilty. But we are not sure enough to sentence you to death so we just put you into prison for the rest of your life just in case something comes up". If the sentence is not reliable to sentence him to death then how can it be reliable enough at all?

Quote from Racer X NZ :

We jail people because we believe that their actions are not acceptable to us as a society, therefore if you commit unacceptable behaviour then society chooses that you should be incarcerated for a specific period as punishment.

But punishment is not the only aspect of prison (and death sentence):

The aspects are:
Retribution
Deterrence
Denunciation
Incapacitation
Rehabilitation
Reparation

I don't think modern justice system should have any room for retribution for example. I also think rehabilitation and incapacitation are the most important ones.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

And society accepts that this will come at a cost, paid through taxes, to remove those that we believe guilty, after a trial, for a set period of time.

In the case of murder, what is an accepted period ?

Acceptable punishment is anything that guarantees that the chance of rehabilitation to be successful (=long enough) or that the person is incapacitated (he's ability is taken away). In the extreme case where rehabilitation is unsuccesfull and the chance for recidivism is high I see death sentence as one of the good tools to solve the situation. In my opinion it does not solve anything if you just throw someone into cell and throw away the key.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

If you kill someone, remove their life, then what is an acceptable punishment ?

Same as above if we assume the killing was done in such way it wasn't self defence for example.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

And, the point I'm actually trying to make, what is the difference between an individual committing murder, or a state committing murder.

Are states exempt from responsibility for their actions while individuals should be punished ?

Please discuss !

What's the difference between state commiting kidnapping or individual commiting kidnapping?

We have given this power to our justice system because it is necessary to have this kind of authority for a civilized society to survive and exist. Without justice system and ways to deal with crimes and criminals the society would be a far worse place to live.

Society is based on (among rights and duties) rules and punishments you get from breaking those rules. For that system to work we need someone or something to do the punishing part. If you are suggesting that we should not have such system because giving out punishments is wrong then what is it then when you have bad guys running around when you have chosen to do nothing about it? Is doing nothing the better option? Should we shut down our prisons and justice system because kidnapping people is wrong?

Quote from The Very End :

I mean that they are on cells without a sentence on them, as someone stated earlier, sorry for beeing unclear here.

I think life time prison is much more of a punishment, than what death penalty is. As stated before the biggest reason I'm against death penalty is that it is a primitive way of judging (eye for an eye attitute). Secondly is that a life in prison, no matter how you look on it, is utterly devestating. Never to be released, never to be a free man again.. That is true despair in my eyes. Also the person have to live with all his actions, which I think can be pretty horrible too for a person who is not completely nutcase.

So you see the long sentence as revenge? You just want the hardest punishment to get revenge to the criminal? You say you do not like death penalty because for you it is "eye for an eye" yet at the same time you say all you want from the justice system is revenge.

Quote from The Very End :

What I think is grotesque with the death penalty, is when 16 year old kids has to sit 15 years in jail and then get executed.

As someone stated earlier, death penalty is not justice or punishment, it's the easy way out.

So it is grotesque to be 15 years in prison waiting for your death but waiting in prison for 50 years for your death is the better option?

How is death penalty the easy way out compared to life sentence where you just lock someone up and just wait for him to die of old age just do you do not need to do it? Out of sight, out of mind.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Or end up being executed but later it turns out that they were innocent. I don't know if apologising after they've been murdered is a big help
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution

The problem with that idea is that it somehow presents it as a solution that limiting the upper end of the sentence length somehow "helps" those who are convicted despite being innocent. With that logic the extreme case is that we should not even have justice system because it is not infallible. Basically the idea is completely wrong and there is some sick logic in your idea. Basically it means we know for a fact that our justice systems convict people wrongly and yet the only thing we should do about is to reduce the sentence lengths??

We should not shorten or lessen the sentence lengths to try to "fix" problems with the justice system. We should fix the justice system itself if it produces wrong sentences.

Last edited by Hyperactive, Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:11.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

As Moose says, it's a moral choice, you have to draw the line somewhere. If it means maying a negligible amount more tax to live by those standards then so be it. I daresay it would be cheaper to stop collecting and processing our domestic refuse, but I'm happy to pay towards a society that considers itself above living in its own shit.

By what grounds it is morally ok to kidnap people for the rest of their lives but not sentence them to death? How is one wrong wrong but other wrong is necessary?

Quote from Crashgate3 :

So would cutting off his arms and legs, poking out his eyes and sewing his mouth shut. It would certainly be cheaper than detaining him.

Indeed. Now I've seen the light. I did not understand before that death sentence is the same as "cutting off his arms and legs, poking out his eyes and sewing his mouth shut...(because it is) cheaper".