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mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from Rtsbasic :Davo, I'm pretty certain it isn't any stiffer than it should be - I just tightened it up enough to stop it moving side to side, didn't want to overtighten it and cause the bushing to bind and prematurely wear out. The spring tension feels fine anyway, the throttle feels just like the C4 I drive.

G25 pedals use "Shoulder bolts" and therefore cannot cause the bushing to bind. That is, a shoulder bolt has a lip/stop at the end of the threads so when the nut (in this case a self locking nylock nut) is tightened down the side of the pedal frame is squeezed, but the bolt does not "pull through" squeezing all of the parts in between. This is a much more expensive bolt/nut to use, but it really improves overall manufacturing consistency.
Last edited by mcman, .
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from jollyeskimo :I think it's because they're metric... I have a set of allen wrenches from japan , and the size 4 was prefect for the wheel's 6 bolts

jollyeskimo is correct; all of the fasteners are metric. In fact, G25 is designed completely in metric dimensions and materials.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from FlipFlop :Hi there,
i am wondering if the feeling while steering with high force feedback (like centering spring) is normal.
While driving the BF1 in long curves like Kyoto you make very little turns with the wheel, which is really annoying because I can sense every single tooth of the cogwheel of the force feedback drive.

Is anybody else having this problem/feeling?

This feeling (refered to as cogging) results from the interaction of the rotor windings with the permanent magents of DC motors. G25 uses a greatly reduced gear ratio which makes the effect even more noticeable (but which leads to higher wheel speeds and greatly reduced gear/inertia losses that give G25 it's unique functionality). To offset this effect G25 uses five pole motors wound to minimize cogging. It is a balance between cogging, maximum torque and cost. These motors are designed specfically for G25 and are not "off the shelf" motors. As you lower your torque settings the cogging feel is greatly reduced.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from ChaseMe :Has anyone screwed the pedals to the floor? I see holes that I think would accomodate this. I have my setup in a closet with a wood floor so I'd love to just screw them straight down. Worried about taking the cover off the pedals to do it though...

It works the other way around: the holes you see in the bottom are threaded to accept a M6X1 machine screw. The intent is to allow the Pedals to be attached to a board (counter sink the screw heads!), or attached to the metal frame of a sim seat. Please read the instructions (templets) to make sure you do not use too long a screw and damage the Top Case of your pedal set!
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from Rtsbasic :Just a thought, the power adapter doesn't look much like any of the ones I have for my other Logitech stuff, maybe there was a delay in sourcing a sufficent number of them? We know there was a mixup with them a few weeks back in Australia.

Edit: £160 from Logi. Damn, its tempting. Better than the £185 odd I sent Gameseek. Will definately switch the order if its not here next week for some reason.

The power supply for G25 is different from all others (DFP/MOMO Racing) as it is a universal supply. That is (as you read the lable) the power "brick" is the same for all users, only the power cord is area specfic.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from turbo4door :I feel like a massive idiot asking but....

I had everything set up just fine. I clicked something (no idea what) and I cannot get it to go to 900 degrees. the logi profiler and LFS are both set to 900 but its acting like its still stuck at 200. Also, no matter what, the clutch is auto. I select the axis, the axis shows movement, but it does not affect the clutch pedal (yes i have it set to axis and shifter as tranny type)

Strange.....

any help?

Please do not just "take it back". Please listen to Tweaker as he has a great deal of understanding about G25 and LFS. Also, I can tell you from my experience, setting up G25 in LFS was frustrating for me and required me to consult others, like Tweaker, to get it right. Once you understand the relationships between the various configurations it makes sense, until that happens it seems that something is broken!

Now, just an insight to users that have "wierd" problems with G25. If you have a PlayStation 2 and something like GT4, you can plug in G25 to check function. That is, there are no "graphic card confilcts", no "processor/OS" conflicts. The H shifter is not supported, but everything else works "out of the box". So, if it works with GT4 on PS2, you can look to your PC/game settings for possible setup/configuration issues without sending back a perfect unit only to get another that has the same "wierd" issues" that turn out to have nothing to do with G25. Good luck and I hope to enjoy your G25!

One Note though, G25 may boot up on PS2 with the wheel "off center" after the calibration cycle. This is normal and will not affect driving. Once you start racing you will see that the wheel is perfectly centered!

Another Note: The DFP button sequence to shift from 200 deg to 900 deg mode does not apply to G25. DFP has a mechanical sliding "stop" that the button sequence moves in and out. No such stop exists in G25.
Last edited by mcman, .
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from Jakg :send me the broken one, i dont care, my wheel is playing up and my new pedals have broken

Is this a G25? If so, how have the pedals broken? Thank you for your reply.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from masternick :i've had my wheel for 5 days and have broken the left paddle lol

*take's it back to the store to get another*

How is it broken? Thank you for some insight.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from Transporter :is there a way to remove the click sound when you shift? i mean, if it's something thats only there to notify you when you have changed gear, it should be easy to remove or what?

The "click" is a "designed in" function and not an add on. It is intended to provide audio and some physical feedback for each shift.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from bbman :Anybody that already got his G25: Can you give me some measurements of the shifter (What are WxBxH of the part of the shifter that actually lies on the desk? How steep is the back rising? and so on)... I might have to extend my desk, so I have to figure out where while keeping a comfortable driving position...

When viewed from the side with the shifter mounted on the desk/table: distance from edge of mounting surface (desk/table) to the furthest back edge of the case (Button Panel) is 172 mm. Distance from the edge of the mounting surface to the front of the shifter is 90 mm (therefore, the overall length of the shifter is 262 mm). Maximum height from the mounting surface (top of desk/table) to the top edge of the case (Button Panel) is 118 mm (this is maximum height of the shifter also). Maximum width of the shifter is 140 mm.

Note: the "mounting templets" for G25 were posted on the Race Sim Central site by "Goo". The shifter templet has a side view on it that could be "scaled up" using the above numbers.

Hope this helps.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from dawesdust_12 :I just realized, don't the clamps tristan sawed off, aren't they removable with a screw driver?

The "hard points" located in the back of the G25 Console are intended to assist the two main "Front Clamps". They will not, and can not hold the Console in place alone. The Main Clamps should aways be used and never removed.

The screws for the Main Clamps cannot be removed without taking the unit fully apart which is the same as DFP (unlike Formula Force GP which you can unscrew the clamp screws and pull the clamps out the bottom). These clamps are "trapped" between the Top and Bottom Case plastic.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from Rtsbasic :Clamps look idential on the underside to DFP ones, so should keep the wheel nice and secure. My desk starts moving around before the wheel shifts.

You guys sure it uses the proper bolting pattern for the wheel? If so it only uses half of it, and the other 3 are fake..guess that'd still be pretty secure, although if that is the case I already sense a mod coming. Take a look at these pics and tell me what you think.

What you are looking at is the end of the Main Shaft/Bull gear. What is not shown is the "Hub/Paddle Shifters" assembly which is attached to the Main Shaft with three large screws. This assembly goes on after the Top Case is installed over the Main Shaft and Clamp Caps. The Hub has six screw bosses that accept the six hex headed screws that hold the wheel on. It should be noted that the Stainless Steel Wheel Frame is not directly held on with the six screws. They sit in six pockets in the Center Bezel and the pockets align and hold the Wheel onto the Hub. The bolt pattern is set at 25 mm radius (50 mm screw center line to screw centerline).

Quote from Gabkicks :the wheel looks very good sorta reminds me of one of my fav momo wheels.

This should not be surprising since MOMO designed the G25 wheel as well as all other aspects of the industrial design.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from Gabkicks :i know it is at least one inch. i think the dfp with the extra spacer is 1 inch so its more without

The clamps on G25 are about 20 mm further apart than the clamps on MOMO Racing so G25 should mount just fine on that curved desk (if it was curved the other way it would not). Maximum clamp opening is 52 mm. The picture shown has the "spacer clips" installed which are included for use on very thin desks. They "snap off" when pushed from the side to allow maximum clamp opening. The clips are shipped installed for ease of packaging. G25's clamping system in nearly identical to DFP except for the "push down/rotate" to latch clamp knobs.

Quote from deggis :Ok. I hope my worries are unnecessary but I can't be sure. I have no problem attaching the black MOMO (even if it didn't have that third clamp) but this might be just a matter of few millimetres.

Even if the wheel fits with no problems I will still have a problem finding a good place for the shifter but I already had a backup plan for that (though the desk isn't the best place for the shifter anyway).

Could you tell me what's the exact distance between this (see the pic)?

I just looked at your attached image: the distance you indicate with the two red arrows is "depth under the lip" not clamping width. This distance is 17 mm and really only comes into play if your mounting surface has a "lip" hanging down that is more than 52 mm and very close to the edge. Hope this helps.

Clamps look idential on the underside to DFP ones, so should keep the wheel nice and secure. My desk starts moving around before the wheel shifts.

You guys sure it uses the proper bolting pattern for the wheel? If so it only uses half of it, and the other 3 are fake..guess that'd still be pretty secure, although if that is the case I already sense a mod coming. Take a look at these pics and tell me what you think.
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from Hyperactive :Somehow this "new wheel from logitech" leaves me cold. Maybe it is just that I have heard so much horror stories about logitech wheels that I have somewhat lost my trust on the firm. Especially because my MS wheel has been through all kind of bizarre accidents (dropped to ground from heights of 2 metres, not once) and only one problem that I have ever had with it are the random (once or twice a day) double up/downshift, or the squeeky pedals. It is just a shame that Microsoft isn't making wheels anymore. At least their stuff had the reliability issues taken care of, business sense or not.

I would have really hoped that the wheel would have had at least 4 buttons (look left/right, pit speedlimiter and handbrake). Now it has only two, which are even poorly positioned on the wheel. Also while the pedals look sturdy and more reliable than the previous MOMO-red/DFP versions, logitech has still forgotten that in hi-spec-tech wheels/pedals, the pedal precision is largely underestimated. If you look at the pedal travel, the angle precisely, you see that it is less than 50 degrees. Also no talks about if the wheel has bearings on its axle. And that gear stick isn't practical. Especially that directional pad (cross-button or whatevah) is totally useless - you need to use your forefinger to operate it, like the rest of the buttons on the shifter. And because of the need of using you forefinger, you need to reach out for them. And this means that operating them is slow and inprecise.

Imho, this is again a classic example how the idea of "everything needs to be symmetric, for the looks" has been a higher priority than raw ergonomics. After all, the logitech RSC speachman, goo, said that it was important for logitech that the wheel would not look like a toy. Do pro sim racers care how the wheel looks, if the functionality is top notch? Or vice versa illepall

All-in-all, it's still promising that logitech has made such a product aimed at more professional sim players. Too bad it wasn't designed by ones.

Sorry for being such negative, but bad design always makes me sad.

EDIT: it seems that someone had posted a screen edit of the wheel with an lcd display on it. Imho, having an lcd display on wheel isn't really practical as the wheel is a) not in your sight = you need to move your eyes away from the screen b) as the wheel turns it makes it even ahrder to see what it says. A fixed lcd placed on top of the wheel would be better imho. And cheaper.

The G25 FFB Transmission uses precision ball bearings: a snap ring version of the DFP "after bearing" and a smaller race version of the MOMO Force transmission (50 mm ID, 72 mm OD) as the "forward bearing" (similar layout to MOMO Force). The main shaft is glass filled Nylon 66 for very high strength with the "bull gear" integrated into the shaft for superior concentricity. Two, high torque, DC motors operate through a 16:1 reduction with a anti-backlash gear system providing direct drive to the motor mounted high resolution optical encoder. This approach means that any movement of the wheel results in movement of the optical encoder for exact input response. Further benefits of the two motor transmission are much lower interia, lower pitch line velocity of the gears for greatly reduced noise, and increased frequency response due to minimized FFB gear backlash (single reduction compared to double reduction). Number of motors, motor torque, and gear ratio were chosen to provide the same torque at the wheel rim as DFP (though it feels like more due to lower system losses). This design approach produces a much lighter feel and a quicker response than a standard gear based double reduction transmission. The wheel uses 3.0 mm thick stainless steel spokes providing a very rigid driving experience, and is hand wrapped with real leather. The hub mounted Paddle Shifters are constructed from 2.0 mm thick SS and operate lever arm switches in the hub (rotate with the wheel). Total rotation is 900 degrees "lock to lock" using a similar stop system as DFP, but without the mechanical 200 degree sliding stop.

The pedals are constructed from plated CRS (cold rolled steel) and stainless steel: 2.2 mm CRS for the arms and frame, 3.0 mm SS for the pedal faces. Shoulder bolts with 8.00 mm diameters, and heavy duty plastic bushings provide a very high tolerance and rigid feel. The potentimeters are gear'ed up, using anti-backlash springs, to produce 55 degrees of potentiometer rotation from 20 degrees of input resulting in very smooth and very fine control. The stops are "metal to metal" to eliminate calibration destroying flex in the system. The pedal arms are connected to the back of the frame, once again, through 8.00 mm dia shoulder bolts, with a piston and cylinder arrangment. Springs of three different rates are enclosed inside these pistons; about twice the strength of DFP's pedal spring for the throttle, very strong for brake and firm for the clutch. These rates were finalized after many interations and many LFS laps! Each frame includes 2 tapped (M6X1 bolts) holes for mounting the pedal set to a simiulator structure, but also includes the patented "carpet lock" grip system used on DFP's pedal set.

The Shifter is a six speed, short throw, with locked out reverse. It is convertable to a standard sequencial to support non-gated shifter games. It is constructed from heat treated CRS, and high strength Delrin engineering plastic. The mechansim is based on potentiometers, not switches, to determine shifter position. It has a spring loaded ball bearing detent that holds it in each gear, and is spring loaded to neutral when not in gear. The shaft is 10.0 mm diameter steel with a alignment flat machined into the top to key the leather shifter knob which is held on with a machine screw. The boot is also made from real leather. The Shifter uses TWO clamps made from steel bolts and glass filled nylon jaws for table attachment and retention. The knob tops have a "spring loaded, push down and rotate to set" feature to prevent them from interfering with the users knuckles while shifting. A center "ANTI-TIP" arm and screw are included to prevent tipping when the shifter is pulled toward the user. It is not a clamp, and should not be over tightened during use. Two tapped (M6X1) brackets allow the Shifter to be mounted onto a similuator frame if desired. It also contains a symetric control panel allowing the Shifter to be mounted on the left or the right side of the user.
Last edited by mcman, .
mcman
S2 licensed
Quote from dontsimon :To be honest, I don't think the gearing increases the range of the pots in this instance. My brother's BRD Pro pedals usea gearing, but the difference in size of the cogs increases the pots range. On the G25 pedals, the two cog gears appear to be the same size / turning radius which, if true, means turning range of the pot will be no greater unfortunately.

As it is though, the current DFP pots seem to have a decent resolution even with their reduced range, so as long as they match those they should be okay. The gearing mechanasim appears to be there to solve calibration / stability / accuracy problems.

The ratio on these pedals is 1:2.75 increasing the pedal range from 20 degrees to a potentiometer range of 55 degrees. DFP/MOMO Force is 1:1.
mcman
S2 licensed
The Pedals use gears to increase the rotation angle of the potentiometers which provides a larger output range for greater accuracy. These gears are spring loaded which eliminates all backlash and with "steel to steel" stops calibration is very consistent. The potentiometers are not the same as DFP due to the much higher rotation angle provided by the gears. The operation is very smooth and rigid due to all steel construction and steel shoulder bolt mounted pedal arms riding on precision bushings. The springs have higher rates than DFP or MOMO Racing providing better feedback to the user while further adding to the smoothness during operation.
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