Quote from Gai-Luron :

Hello,


Seem to be sync mode. How is configured your sync mode?

Sync dowload not started!

Yep, that was the problem. Working fine now thanks.

Hi all. I've been playing around with balancing cars and have created a new server called 'Street Racers'

It features the TBO's, LX4, UFR, RAC and FZ5. The last three have had intake restrictions and/or weight added to balance them all out with the TBO's.

Give it a try and tell me what you think. I'm guessing the balancing will need more tuning. I just figured it would be more fun to race a larger variety of cars on a track that all have an equal chance of winning.

I'm getting the following errors under mono:

LFSLapper, Version=5.4.0.36795, Culture=neutral
Copyright (C) 2005-2007 Janez Cufer and Gai-Luron
LFSLapper comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions. Read LICENSE for details.

Intercept don't work
Loading WR...Not Loaded
Mode Sync = True
Connecting
Connection OK
Product:S2 Version:0.5Y InSim Version:4
Sync Upload DB Thread Started...
Warning:Error loading ./PB.txt or file does not exist yet!
Warning:Error loading ./DriftPB.txt or file does not exist yet!

** (LFSLapper.exe:16941): WARNING **: Missing method Sort in assembly /home/badc
/lfslapper/bin/LFSLapper.exe, type Array

Unhandled Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to
an instance of an object
in <0x00000> <unknown method>
in (wrapper delegate-invoke) System.MulticastDelegate:invoke_void ()
LFSLapper is running...

It doesn't appear to be communicated with the server. Also, it hasn't created the PB.txt and DrivePB.txt files.

The Motec sytems I've worked on not only cut the ignition, but also the fuel injection. The can even cut nitrous oxide injection and control the turbo waste gates. They also adjust the mixture on the fly etc. Basically, it's not just ignition cut on gear changes they do, it is a complete engine management system. They'll even do a 'throttle blip' to avoid compression lockups of the rear wheels during downshifts. Though, calling it a 'throttle blip' is a bit of an over simplification. It's actually part of the traction control system. It also is designed to reduce wheel spin under power.

They have a multitude of adjustments you can make to them and setting them up can be a real pain. They also require a lot of engine sensors to work correctly.

They also log all their data while the engine is running so you can download it one a PC for further examination.

So, in real life, I'd say plug in the lap top and have a look at what's wrong with your engine management system to see why the load isn't being removed from the gear box on the upshift. In this game, all you can really do is ask the developers.

Can you buy just the individual parts, a la, the shifter it is breaks?

Quote from ajp71 :

What you want is a progressive 180 degree look, which is both completely unrealistic and not available with button look.

That is not what I want, and I have never asked for it. Why are you making this crap up? What is your problem? Oh, I see, your just and 18 year old kid that's simply being argumentative for the sake of it. Haven't you got homework to do?

What I want, is to not have to use buttons for any of my views. I bought TrackIR so I wouldn't have to use buttons. At present, I now must use buttons if I want to use all the views available.

Don't forget:

Drongo = Looser
Wanker = One who plays with himself to much
Sheila = girl, as in 'drives like a sheila'
Tin Lids = child, as in 'my tin lids can drive faster/better'
Spaz = retarded
Dry as a dead dingoes donger = time for another beer

Oh, and 38degrees is a hot Winters day.

Quote from JCT-HYPA :

Hi RatzMilk...

Just had a quick test, but I have to say, the button solution works fine here... no need for recentering here after pushing the "backwards" button... Tested this with VectorXpansion and the ProClip and both work fine...
feels weird but it works...

You won't notice looking back just once. It's only slightly off with each return. Over a long race, it does tend to creep off center eventually requiring a recenter.

And of course, the whole point of this poll/post is, I bought TrackIR so I wouldn't have to use buttons to look around. What's the point of having TrackIR if I now have to use buttons?

All I'm asking is for the same view without having to map/press a button for it. And over 80 percent of the people that have voted agree that we should be able to have the same views available.

Or, remove the look behind view for everyone and for every car.

People shouldn't have different handicaps placed on them based on the equipment they use. What if you could only look behind by using a wheel button, thereby preventing mouse/keyboard drivers from looking behind.

What if only G25 users were prevented from looking behind, there would be an uproar because of the amount of G25 users in the game.

Bottom line is, if every driver in this game was using TrackIR, or if it was only effecting G25 users, this would have been fixed within 24 hours of the new patch being released.

Quote from DFS_MadFred :

Cockpit of course....

with the added bonus of a TrackIR device, which takes care of the situational awareness.. plus makes it so much more immersive.

I'm really pleased with the TIR in LFS too, in some other race sims
it feels a bit awkward, but the tracking in LFS feels really natural.

With the lights off and the sound cranked up, you'll get sucked in
right away...

Same for me.

Quote from ajp71 :

You do have 180 degree look you just don't want to use it. As Scawen's just explained the original intention wasn't to have the arcadey 180 degree look in any cars. If you choose not to use it (like I and probably most racers will do) then you can't complain you're not allowed it.

So, your saying if I and all the other users of TrackIR want to have the same views as everyone else, we should give up our TrackIR's and just use the buttons like everyone else?

I was introduced to this game from a newsletter I received from the TrackIR company. I bought this game because it support TrackIR. If Scawen agrees with you, I'll gladly except a full refund and leave.

However, seeing as 85 percent of the people that have voted in this post disagree with you, I'll probably be staying. Oh, and you should therefor stop speaking on behalf of 'most racers' as they obviously don't agree with you.

It seems you can't avoid getting a yellow flag at those points no matter what you do. Even a slow steady speed staying in the very center of the track triggers them at those points.

This has created a *massive increase in my yellow flag stats at CTRA. Thus, my yellow flags stats should be reset to zero









*Use of word 'massive' was for dramatic effect only. Actual increase was only minor.

Quote from Doorman :

Give it up. You've got the same view as everyone else. In fact it's better than non TIR users. They have from 30 to 90degrees each side take it or leave it.

Incorrect, they still have 180 degrees of view for some cars. TrackIR users do not have this 180 degree view at all.

Quote from Scawen :

What? Can't TrackIR users also press the "rear view" button? I didn't intend to remove that, TrackIR users are supposed to have the same as everyone else, i.e. 90 degrees head turn left and right (what you can see if you are strapped in a racing harness - shoulders cannot move an inch) plus the rear view button which is basically the equivalent of a mirror view, only it's not mirrored.

Yes, you can assign buttons for the views, but if you use a button to change your view, it throws off the TrackIR. You have to basically use buttons, or TrackIR, mixing the two just doesn't work.

I've managed to map a center TrackIR function to one of the other buttons so if I click the rear view button, then after it's released, I can re center TrackIR and then click the center TrackIR button to bring the view back to the front. However, if your head isn't pointing directly at to the front when you hit the center button, your TrackIR is still off center. This still makes for a pretty complicated series of things to do simply for a rear view.

It would be like clicking the button to look behind, but instead of returning to the view to the front, you get returned to a random view each time.

The problem comes about because even the slightest head movement while the rear view button is pressed means the TrackIR view point is no longer the same as it was when the rear view button is pressed. So having a different position for the TrackIR causes the view to jump around and/or be off center.

Why not just jump the view to 180 degrees when the TrackIR passes the 90 degree point? It would then be the same as pushing the look behind view button. It' doesn't have to scroll from the 90 to 180 degree position. The views available would then be exactly the same as button users. And of course, restrict this function to just the cars that have the 180 degree view available.

Last edited by RatzMilk, Mon 24 Dec 2007, 23:58. Reason : Added last paragraph.

Quote from Maelstrom :

And well even if the human FOV is around 180 degrees the helmet reduces it to a lower value!

Then you have the wrong size, or a poorly designed helmet. I have an ancient full face helmet from the early 70,s that you can see the helmet at the sides.

But my three new modern helmets all have a complete uninterrupted view.

El'cheapo helmets often only have 1 or two shell sizes and the vary the thickness of the polystyrene foam in them to give the different head sizes. Top of the range helmets have a different sized shell for every size helmet they do and also the position of the viewing aperture should vary as well for each of the different shell sizes.

Bottom line is, if you can see your helmet, it's the wrong size, or cheap crap.

Quote from CSU1 :

.....turn head left/turn eye-balls right lmao

no, everyone drives by the same rules EVEN if you think you are special.

I used IR once and it was the most un-natural peripheral i've ever used....turn head left/turn eyeballs right to look left

Agreed, it's not for everyone. A friend of mine was given one by the company that makes them in return for helping them with the light reflectors. He couldn't get used to it either and ended up giving it away.

However, for those of us that do use them, they become second nature. You don't have to think about what your looking at or how to focus on the subject, it just happens.

For instance, as I approach a turn, I can keep my eye on the apex, thus, the apex of the corner will be centered in the monitor. If I get tapped from behind, as the car moves around, the apex of the corner will remain centered in the monitors view. But instead of now looking out the windscreen, I may be looking through the side window. It's just like padlock view, though not automaticly done by the computer, you still have to provide the input.

And you don't have to move your head from side to side either. I have mine set pretty sensitive so I only have to make a tiny movement of my head, no more than a centimeter (half an inch for you Yankees) up, down, left or right to move the cursor or view to the edges of the screen or travel.

The views available to TrackIR users until now, were the same views available to button users. We didn't have any extra views or abilities. Everyone was the same.

Since patch Y, TrackIR no longer has the same views available. And, I suspect this is so because of the 'Magic Mirror' that now appears in the race cars. It was probably to hard to implement for TrackIR users, so, we just do with out.

I don't mind not having the Magic Mirror, after all, it's kinda dumb suddenly having two rear view mirrors right beside each other showing the same rear view.

But because this Magic Mirror couldn't be done for us, we get to miss out the look behind view in the cars where that's still possible.

All I ask is that TrackIR users get to look behind in the same cars that button users can look behind in. Forget about the Magic Mirror in the race cars. Suddenly having a second rear view mirror right beside the one that's already there is pretty pointless.

Just give us the same rear view, in the cars that have it, just like everyone else and stop treating us like lepers.

Quote from Snake2 :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35946 l

I created that poll before I found out that it's only TrackIR users that have had the 180 degree view removed for ALL cars.

I thought it had been removed for everyone, but I was mistaken. Should have done more research.

So, this poll is to ask the LFS community if we TrackIR users should be able to look 180 degrees in the cars where that is still possible. Or, if we should have this handicap just for us, and I be very interested in why only TrackIR users should have this handicap.

What if it were removed for G25 users, but Momo users could still do it? What would the reaction be then?

Prior to patch Y, TrackIR users could look 180 degrees to the rear, just as people that use buttons to look around can.

With Patch Y, this view has been removed for TrackIR users totally.

Button view users can still look 180 Degrees behind them on most cars. Some cars, they can't, instead getting an extra rear view mirror.

All I'm asking is that TrackIR users have the same views available to them that button view users have, i.e, the ability to look 180 degrees to the rear, even if it's just in the cars that still allow this.

Last edited by RatzMilk, Mon 24 Dec 2007, 09:03. Reason : Typo's.

Quote from RatzMilk :

If look behind view is removed for everyone,

Doh! I suppose I should have done some more research first. Look behind view has only been removed for us TrackIR users. Using buttons to look around, you can still look 180 degrees behind. It was a post in a reply to my question in the Technical Assistance forum that said it was removed for everyone, and I just accepted that as Gospel.

It seems, it was only removed for some (race) cars for everyone.

For street cars, only TrackIR users no longer have the look behind view. People using buttons to look around can still look 180 degrees behind them. And what's with the magic mirror that appears in the race cars instead of being able to look around. How does that factor into the 'realism' thing? I mean, it appears right beside the rear view mirror and shows exactly the same thing.

We TrackIR users are such a small minority in this Sim that nobody will probably care that this option has been removed just for us.

Imagine though, if it was removed for G25 users, but Momo, other wheels and mouse/keyboard users could still do a 180 degree look around. Then it would probably get more attention.

As I said before, it feels is if TrackIR users are having additional handicaps with these additional view restrictions placed on us, that non TrackIR users do not suffer from.

All I ask is to have the same views available to us TrackIR users as are available to everyone else.

Quote from Scawen :

It seemed to me more sensible for anyone to take their favourite setups and make the necessary adjustments to final drive ratio and camber.

Any chance we could get some more information about the changes done to the way camber works? I did a search and couldn't find anything.

Quote from mkinnov8 :

I dont believe its a bug. The viewing was restricted and looking back removed within LFS within Patch Y, its right there in the change log if you have a read and a search around. I would expect it to restrict movement with a TrackIR too.

LFS is going for realism, I suggest you use the mirrors more

It's only when using TrackIR that look behind has been removed. You can still look behind (180 degress) when using buttons to view in the street cars.

So, more realism just for TrackIR users only?

I'll ask again, why were the TrackIR views crippled? Why do the button views still have the look behind (180 degrees) option that TrackIR no longer has?

Quote from JasonJ :

There's a server option for that: (F) Forced Cockpit View. Can't we keep this limitation on those servers and see how they go instead of signing off 100's of other players just wanting a good time in the view they like best?

edit: beaten by - SpaceMarineITA

You can say the same thing about the look behind view that has just been removed for everyone. Couldn't that to have been a setting decided on by the host weather or not to allow it, just as forced cockpit view is?

If look behind view is removed for everyone, like it or not, for the sake of realism, shouldn't all the other non realism views be remove as well? Either make it real, and get rid of all of the impossible views, or make than selectable by the host.

Quote from zeugnimod :

It hasn't. Stop lying.

I thought he meant the 'look behind view'? That was a pretty harsh attack on me personally though, don't you think. You don't know me. If you said that to me face, you'd learn a lot about me then.

To those posting 'not this again' posts, the views have changed and are more restricted now. This was done for realism.

Thus, any previous polls on this subject were based on different views being available in the first place.

If you think this poll is a waist of time, then don't read it or participate, no one is forcing you to.

That view has been removed.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35946

I posted a thread about the new restricted views when using TrackIR and had a lot of people tell me that the new 90 degree viewing angle is more real and LFS is going for realism.

I pointed out that that this game still allows the Wonder Woman invisible car view, the Cherry Picker view from above and behind the car, both are which are straight out Arcade mode views, plus custom views from pretty much anywhere.

As many posters said that looking further around than 90 degrees was not possible in real life, I assume, they would also agree that the Wonder Woman and Cherry Picker views should also be removed, as they are not possible in real life either.

So, I would like to know, would people prefer: