Quote from hda :

if, while braking with ABS on you push the handbrake the rear wheels will light up in the tire temperature display (F9) like abs is being applied onto them while it is not.

That's how it works in real life too. ABS cannot be applied to the handbrake, but it attempts to apply it to the regular brakes, whether or not they are applied at all.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Maybe that's your driving mate (pearcy), I found no difference in overall braking distances (or being able to brake later) when using ABS and not using ABS. Of course, EASE of doing so varied greatly, one requied 100% brake and hold on, the other required limit braking and careful clutch control. Shame that 95% of people will go for the former.

(omg ppl agree with me HISTORY IS BEING MADE)

It wasn't my driving, i was on the combo earlier and if im half a car lenght infront down the inside, before ABS i sually end up infront unless i hit the grass on exit, my braking was perfect, even hit the limiter trying to get some extra braking power and he still went round the outside and he was like a sec slower a lap than me, it doesn't just give you stability during braking, pauli said it gives extra braking power which from what ive seen seems to be pretty accurate.

Sounds wierd

But yeah, does give some extra power, I'm sure, but I haven't noticed it first hand. What I have noticed is that it cuts in when I trail brake (I have a pretty rearward setup so it's lovely and neutral under braking, and it insists on stopping the rear wheels locking up, even if they would lock momentarily.)

Overall I'm probably around the same with ABS as I am without, and unless I find myself being swamped by people who have to use it to win, I shant be using it myself. Any time I make up underbrakes is lost because I can't trailbrake properly, so yeah. Just waiting for my beloved FE Gold REV record to be taken by some monkey who is ABS happy (that's a track where ABS could really help ._.)

Quote from wheel4hummer :

That's how it works in real life too. ABS cannot be applied to the handbrake, but it attempts to apply it to the regular brakes, whether or not they are applied at all.

but if that was the case wouldn't the rear wheels "light up" in the F9 display while braking normally instead of just lighting up when you use the handbrake?

Quote from hda :

but if that was the case wouldn't the rear wheels "light up" in the F9 display while braking normally

They do if you lock them up.

The ABS option is available for the slow cars only. It make's it easier for beginners. It helps them driving their first laps, so I think it's a good thing..
More experience drivers don't drive these slow cars anyway.

FZ5 isn't my idea of a slow car. ABS is on the cars that would realistically have ABS on them. Obviously, the LX's wouldn't realistically have ABS. And neither would any of the race cars, the UF1, or the RAC.

Mirrors are all black while in chaseview... I'm sure they used to work, could be wrong though!

Quote from Krammeh :

Mirrors are all black while in chaseview... I'm sure they used to work, could be wrong though!

There's a option on "view" where you can set "real/virtual/both"

Anyway, by default chase view have never had real mirrors working, just the virtual ones...

To say experienced drivers wouldn't choose to drive the slower cars is totally incorect and even bordering on arrogant imo. I choose to drive most of the time in road cars, it's a choice that has nothing to do with experience, competitiveness or the size of my epenis

Quote from Glenn67 :

To say experienced drivers wouldn't choose to drive the slower cars is totally incorect and even bordering on arrogant imo. I choose to drive most of the time in road cars, it's a choice that has nothing to do with experience, competitiveness or the size of my epenis

sorry I didn't want to offend anyone, but in real life every racedriver want's to procede to a faster race class if he get's the change.
the ultimed goal always is the F1.
Maybe in LFS people are happy to stay in those little cars.
That's perfectly fine, but not for me.
A car is never fast enough

A Bug here, i think it was noticied by annother guy in this forum too, btw the new shadows works fine, except by this bug (see pic, those "shadow Lines"), is there a way to solve it? really focuse on it, please.

PD: here i´m using an ATI radeon 9200/9250 Series, 128Mb DDR, it works fine with normal patch Z, but with this one (as you can see) not.

Adolfo Herrera.

Quote from Demon68 :

sorry I didn't want to offend anyone, but in real life every racedriver want's to procede to a faster race class if he get's the change.
the ultimed goal always is the F1.

You didn't offend I just wanted to state an alternative view.

You say every racedriver, well I beg to differ. Irl alot of race drivers aspire to progress as high as possible, but that has more to do with fame and fortune than it has to do with racing. I am damn sure that is not the driving motivation of all race drivers though

In LFS we have the opportunity to race for enjoyment and passion so that doesn't automatically mean I want to progress to the GTRs, F08 or F1. Infact I have always recieved alot enjoyment out of racing the uf1, xfg or xrg. I get the most enjoyment out of the lx6, rac and fz5.

So to insinuate changes made to the slower cars are unimportant as all serious drivers want be driving them is way off base.

And as to a car is never fast enough, my take on it is - striaght line speed is irrelevant; it's how quickly you can go around corners that matters

I think both the posts quoted below are very valid.

Quote from gohfeld23 :

As LFS is a SIM (simulated real life vehicle physics, racing, etc) and ABS is part of real life, it's quite logical for ABS to be included.
LFS is NOT a personal e-dick extender and as such should not be limited to hotlappers who perfected the track.

LFS is all about close racing, at least to a vast majority of people. If someone who just started racing has the ability to give me the closest race of a lifetime, so be it. I welcome it with open arms, regardless whether ABS helped them. We all have the same tools at our disposal.

Leagues should have the ability to force ABS off for logical reasons, however it would be a shame if the majority of servers forced it off.
And if added features make LFS more inviting to a wider crowd of "gamers" by making it more accessible, how could one possibly dislike that?

It's not about who finishes first. It's about the ride IMO

Quote from plehto :

Yes, road cars do have abs for safety reasons. But abs is prohibited in almost all racing. So choose your poison, which realism is the one we want to go after? A super safe volvo or a race car, i know which one is my choise. Take the mainstreaming approach and you'll have a console game in your hands. Not really challenging, easy to learn, loss of interest in a couple of months.
Also the idea of abs is to maintain steering, not to shorten braking distances. In many cases braking distance with abs is longer compared to locked tyres.

The suggestion of making abs response rate slower and making the brake pressure release greater/longer sound like viable options. As said in my previous post, right now it takes ~0.02s for the system to release brake pressure making the abs system work at around 50Hz. From googling i found results varying from 15 up to 20Hz.

Even on modern vehicles, ABS will increase brake distance when compared to threshhold braking.

From longest to shortest brake distance it goes:
-Locked wheels
-ABS
-Threshhold

I know this for a fact because I've driven a vehicle with modern ABS and I hated how it would increase the brake distance when it kicked in.

If the ABS in LFS gives you an advantage right now, it should be adjusted so that it doesn't. Considering the age of the cars it should pulse the brakes from On to almost completely off, and do it about 4-5 times a second. I actualy timed the pulses on an old car before, to see how fast it worked. I did this on an old mercury 4 door. This car also had an old version of traction control.

this looks like a bug

Quote from DragonCommando :

Even on modern vehicles, ABS will increase brake distance when compared to threshhold braking.

From longest to shortest brake distance it goes:
-Locked wheels
-ABS
-Threshhold

I know this for a fact because I've driven a vehicle with modern ABS and I hated how it would increase the brake distance when it kicked in.

If the ABS in LFS gives you an advantage right now, it should be adjusted so that it doesn't. Considering the age of the cars it should pulse the brakes from On to almost completely off, and do it about 4-5 times a second. I actualy timed the pulses on an old car before, to see how fast it worked. I did this on an old mercury 4 door. This car also had an old version of traction control.

JasonJ, Skstibi, and I did a test today with the XRG on which distance is longer; abs threshold or locked wheels. Our tests concluded that ABS was shortest distance, threshhold was second, and locked were longest. (im sure JasonJ will make a thread or post about our findings later ) But in the Fz5, the data was far different. The locked wheels went a lot further, and the threshold was a tiny bit less than ABS. We could have tested more cars, but eh.

Can't wait for the VW

I can still see this, problem?

Just pointed that with ABS on mine hotlaps are slower

Quote from Danas :

I can still see this, problem?

No. This is a sideeffect of the brake discs now rotating with the wheels or was implemented specifically as optimization.

Quote from John5200 :

btw... the second quote from scawen is false already now ^^ (ABS)

I guess you don't understand what "content" means then? Content refers to cars and tracks, the substance of the game. ABS is just a new simulation feature.

Quote from plehto :

Also the idea of abs is to maintain steering, not to shorten braking distances. In many cases braking distance with abs is longer compared to locked tyres.

The only case where this is true is a specific kind of snow and maybe on gravel.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Quote from plehto :

Also the idea of abs is to maintain steering, not to shorten braking distances. In many cases braking distance with abs is longer compared to locked tyres.

The only case where this is true is a specific kind of snow and maybe on gravel.

To clarify, the first part of plehto's post was correct, the idea of ABS ON ANY SURFACE is to maintain steering. AndroidXP's statement applies to the fact that braking distances are longer with ABS than with locked tyres... which is only true on certain surfaces.

Just clearing that up before people inevitably start arguing.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Yes but you don't fly away all the time when you hit a barrier. Sometimes you are pushed back.

It was like 90% when you hit barrier you can believe you can fly. But now its only about 10-20% to me

Quote from plehto :

In many cases braking distance with abs is longer compared to locked tyres.

Quote from DragonCommando :

Even on modern vehicles, ABS will increase brake distance when compared to threshhold braking.

Since it's unclear which surface types you mean I tried to find some facts. I wouldn't make generalisations perhaps implying that it should be so in LFS.

This report was made ten years ago. Attached is the summary.

Quote from mxpxun :

this looks like a bug

Same here...





Or that's not a BUG?

^ Yes, this was one of the first things reported, Scawen knows about it.