This has been discussed before to some extent but with the current discussion around the limitation of setup options to the new VW I am curious as to see others view points on this subject (aside from the patch test forum).

So I put it to you, my fellow LFS'er, should all of the road based cars in LFS, have limited set ups similar to the new VW Scirrocco? i.e. What is actually adjustable on the car as it rolls off the factory floor.

Or should we leave it as is where we can adjust just about everything we could desire on all vehicles?

I, for one, would not be fussed either way, but I am definately leaning towards limited setups as they can be considered more 'realistic' IMHO.

I guess you would also have to consider are these just road cars, or modified versions of them? i.e. slipping in after market coil overs, etcetera at some sort of club based racing level.

Your thoughts?

Well, there aren't many factory cars in LFS. For example, the XRT, that may have adjustable aftermarket parts for all we know. [Insert transmission ratio discussion here]

I think they should have certain settings locked.. transmission ratios mainly

it can be a choice pf host, just like weight & intake

1st vote!

well, I don't really give that much importance to setup making. As long as I drive the car well, it's ok for me (I just download setups, I suck at making them )

I think that since the vehicls possess aftermarket parts, adjustability should still stay there.
However, limitating the gears ratios, the ARB settings to a large choice, eventually the springs might not be depleasant

I would expect to have increasing adjustability going from the slowest (UF1) up to the fastest (FZ5, LX4&6), all the cars should also be more ajdustable than the Scirocco, since that one appears to be quite strictly limited.

THE differential Change (not a simple adjust, and limit its adjust also, or none!) is i believe togheter with gear ratios, the option that should disapear, but not totally, the stock should be a clutch pack or torsen (but only one of the two), and the option for fully open or fully 'closed' (welded) differentials to choose from.

I think limiting setup options limits what you can do with LFS. The great thing about LFS (and the reason I bought it) is that you can do whatever you want with the cars; make them handle and drive as you want them to. I don't think you can have enough transmission options to cover all the different ways people use LFS. having three or so different transmissions isn't going to be enough to cover autoX, circuit racing, city racing, rally, drift etc. It will leave people feeling restricted rather than more competitive.

If it's possible to implement, i for one would like to see some sort of insim or something to control this sort of thing at server level.

This way, server admins/owners could create and provide a downloadable pre-determined setup that fits the criteria they choose.

For example, everything that is adjustable on any car could some how be given a set limit by the server owner or admins in some way.

Racers would need to have a setup within the chosen criteria in order to race on that server or track. Im thinking in a similar way to how the LFSrestrictor works, whereby if your air intake is set too low, you are autospectated as soon as you attempt to join.

I am not at all familiar with how the technical side of LFS works but i know there can be applications set at the server which give an autospectate for incorrect air restriction, using auto gears, etc.

Im guessing then that this must work by reading some kind of data or code from the users car when they attempt to join and if this data from the users car doesnt match what the server has been set to accept then you are spectated.

And thats how i think it should work, the beauty of it is that any server admin or owner can choose what people can and cannot do with regard to setups, set it in insim or something, and thats that, if its not right, you cant join.

This is a tough question becuase for real life cars like the VWS, BF1, RAC, and the FBM, I think there should be locked setups but don't lock them to much. I think just make the LFS User, like me and you able to edit the cars as much as the average Joe can on the street for the road cars. For the Race cars on the other hand like the BF1, and the FBM since there not a road car i think lock everything BMW can't change on the car that we can change. Also I think make it so major changes like switching the side the driver is on only able to be done in singleplayer or when the racer disconects from the server becuase you can't do that at a race track. So if the LFS Devs are still in contact with BMW i think they should find out what BMW can change when they are at race and if there are certain things BMW can't change that we can change i think they need to be locked. Know to the road cars, for the RAC i think they should lock the settings but only have the ones open that can be changed in the real car. And the same thing as the RAC with the VWS, Lock all the settings that we can do but in real life you can't really do.
A little Off Topic but i think certain major setting changes should only be able to be changed when the person is on singleplayer or something because I don't think you can change the ride height of a car in less than 1 minute becuase you got to release pressure from the springs and you may have to install a whole new set of springs which does not take 0-5 seconds. So major setting changes should be only able to be done on singleplayer but minor setting changes like tire pressure and small things can be done while still connected and on the track, but in the pits.

And I do know that BMW may not say what they can change because its a secret or something.

But for the Fake made up cars I think the same thing should be done thats happening to the VWS which is locked setups but just lock the setups acording to the cars the the fake cars are based of.

Sorry for long post and sorry as it may be hard to understand becuase when I get an idea or somthing in my head I can't stop typing.

I do not agree with server to server differences just because it would be a pain having to have different setups for different servers.

I do agree with limiting sets for not only road cars but ALL cars. I think making the setup options a little more realistic would be a great addition to LFS.

Quote from UncleBenny :

I do not agree with server to server differences just because it would be a pain having to have different setups for different servers.

I do agree with limiting sets for not only road cars but ALL cars. I think making the setup options a little more realistic would be a great addition to LFS.

When i say a downloadable setup, i meant from within lfs, something on the front screen of the server that you can click on, or that even auto-downloads, in a similar way to the skin downloads. Once you leave, you simply delete it from your list of setups and if you go onto that server again, you can just get it back again in the same way.

I would hate to see all setup tuning locked in the road cars, as it is good that you can adjust a setup to your hardware 'rig' and driving style.

Taking into account UncleBenny's valid viewpoint, what I think would be the ultimate format is a default online mode where you can still adjust setup paramerters but it is restricted to realistic increments and ranges that would be available irl for a similar car.

Ultimately I would also still like to see the ability to setup servers that can run a 'spec class' so in other words the server operator can select what parameters can be adjusted, the default set for the sever and the range of settings available. Perhaps in some sort of template which then can be shared amoungst other server operators for popular spec's.

Over all though I think limited or restricted setup options for pickup racing would be a good thing for the casual racer. As to it evening out fields? I think the fast drivers will still be faster, but the mid pack is were the fun will really be noticed

I'd definitely like to see more restrictions on setups.
Anything to level the playing field and make things more like real life is a good thing IMO.

So people would be keen on a server based setup 'locking' similar to the single player option where the AI uses your set?

This would be able to be turned on/off at the server side so as we could have 'open' and 'locked' setup servers.

I agree with Rusty though that the quick (himself included) would remain quick, but the mid pack would benefit greatly. Limited setups and the new ABS would make for some much tighter packs, whether or not that is a good thing....

People who suck at racing will still suck at racing, no matter how uniform the setup options are.

Personally I like the level of adjustment we now have, it's one of the interesting aspects of LFS. I really enjoy making sets and tweaking them to the nth degree. Take away the freedom of setup options and another cool part of LFS dies.

That's how I feel about it anyway. The road cars are already a PITA with their $15 tyres, limited setups puts them right out of the game for me. Five less cars to choose from in the garage.



2c

Quote from Gunn :

People who suck at racing will still suck at racing, no matter how uniform the setup options are.

IMO the main consequence of locked (to a degree) sets, would be that newcomers had one less thing to learn or worry about.

Quote from NightShift :

IMO the main consequence of locked (to a degree) sets, would be that newcomers had one less thing to learn or worry about.

Perhaps, but they'll still need to worry about being competitive. Not that the worries of newcomers will ever enter into your mind when the lights go out and the race is on.

All the roadcars in LFS still have extra seats, complete interior, no rollcages etc. For racing in reality you would surely take out all this weight before you start changing anything else. So this superduper hardcore tweaked setups are not realistic because the cars clearly are no pro-cars.

I never really bothered to make setups myself and still use race_s, although to be honest, it somes bugs me that somebody just as noob as me might be 1 sec faster because he spammed "send set plzzzz"
Maybe, if they could be a "pro-mode" (current system) and a "basic-mode" with pre-set options like:
front springs:
[ ]very soft =22kN/m
[ ] soft = 30kN/m
[x] hard = 35kN/n
[ ] very hard = 44kN/m
Servers could be set "accept only basic-setups" or "accept all setups."
This way new players might even be encouraged to experiment with setups instead of just downloading them?

LFS is a simulator yes? IMHO road cars shouldnt have the amount of adjustments they do now i mean when would you have adjustable gear and diff ratios on an econobox for instance? If that same econobox was to be raced then thats a different thing as it would have roll bars to start with and run on semi slicks at least.

Even if it was club spec racing the cars still wouldnt have the amount of adjustability they do now, sure its alot of fun making sets but most sets are made to take advantage of LFS's flaws rather than be repeatable in real world situations.

Make the race cars racier and leave the shopping trolleys to tyre pressures and minor stuff , maybe to please everyone the current cars could be like RL and come in stock, club and full race versions.

Thats my two cents which is actually worth one cent due to the economic crisis atm..

Quote from richo :

... but most sets are made to take advantage of LFS's flaws rather than be repeatable in real world situations.

Alternatively, the setup flexibility allows us to also address shortcomings in the physics - so there's two sides to that coin. As for realism, why can't we put decent tyres on the road cars? That would be a no-brainer for anyone tackling any race track with a road car. Furthermore, many racing series require a roll cage as a mandatory piece of safety equipment. So the whole realism argument about making road cars like "real" road cars is not very convincing in a racing context.


1c

But then we'd never stop hearing from those drifters....

Quote from SidiousX :

But then we'd never stop hearing from those drifters....

I voted yes...

Quote from Gunn :

Perhaps, but they'll still need to worry about being competitive.

Given enough drivers in a community there's always someone who's as fast (slow ) as you. The only problem is to find those people online at the time and on the server you are on.

The easier LFS looks, the most drivers you'll draw in. The only fault in my theory is that the VWS won't be available for demo drivers