Let me start that way:

Quote :

Answer to: Are there any editors available for LFS?:
No - Live for Speed is in development and so there are no car or track editors available at this time. Also it's not yet possible to import other 3d formats into the game. We expect to release editors in the future along with the related online systems.

This is a quote from http://www.lfs.net/?page=faq&id=8

Ok, after I have seen this and some other mods by some people I have to say that all we need to edit/modify/add new cars is the permission of the devs to tell the secret(not that I know what it is) on how to decode/encode those files in the data folder. But what more will be needed is a system like the skins.. If a host is running and it has added more vob files just to download the new ones that the people don't have and just add their names in some database so no same-named cars to be available while they are actually different.

If this happens some of those few people(that know how that thing works) will tell the secret to someone, it will spread around and there we will no longer need editors at least not until the devs release them and the car modeling becomes easier.

Also I'm not quite in to the question with the cars/tracks but same thing can maybe be done with the tracks.
Edit: Thats not all the things that can be moded but just the ones I could think of. LFS will be cooler if its fully customizable (at least for me) but except the stuff like nitrous and such kiddish ways to mod the game so you can be a lot faster than the other people.

Sorry if this has already been suggested, I couldn't find it tho.

I think, since Eric follows his own line of design, let him do the cars, let scawen do the code, thats it, we don't need anything else. I would hate LFS to become a rFactor (few good mods, lot's of ugly ones).

Actaully after some racing in rFactor and iRacing, LFS graphics looks like cartoon-type, unreal. That's sad.
Because of no DX9?

I've found the opposite. rFactor has the cartoony unreal graphics to me. But it's not especially sad.

The DirectX version has little to do with it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I've found the opposite. rFactor has the cartoony unreal graphics to me. But it's not especially sad.

Yeah, I've always thought so too. Rfactor has really "soft" graphics, and overdone shadows/lighting.

I think a track editor would be cool, but I'm fairly content with what we have now. I haven't mastered even one combination, let alone all of them. I do hope to drive Nordschleife in LFS at some point in the distant future though

I honestly think we should leave the cars completely to the devs though. The cars we have seem very authentic and high quality. Rfactor has some pretty piss-poor user created cars, and it's hard to even find servers racing the particular car you enjoy driving (because there are just so many).

Quote from tristancliffe :

I've found the opposite. rFactor has the cartoony unreal graphics to me. But it's not especially sad.

The DirectX version has little to do with it.

yup me too, lfs looks better than rfactor imo

Yes i agree that LFS graphisk is Beter, maybye not most realistic, but when you turn on LFS you don't want to quit and everythinks looks nice and not tiring your yes.And i thin we dont need a more powerfull graphics engine because then we dont have so much good broadcasts.

No.

/end thread.

LFS is fine as it is now, I've also played rFactor and it's very confusing for me and makes no sense. You must download all those mods separately and it gets more confusing. LFS has everything in one piece and it's looking nice, everyone has all cars and tracks in one download, not like downloading each track/car to drive.

Also the graphics look better in LFS than in rFactor, atleast for me.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

No.

/end thread.

another useful post by dawesust 12

seriously it is

sadly to say im on rfactor more now

the league i race on have released more patches etc this year then lfs done in all of 2008

the devs need to get their fingers out or employ more people

How many rFactor patches have their been in 2009?

do you really want another Rfactor? i havnt joined a server in months thanks to mods

I personally dont see the problem with having custom tracks and locking the cars for the devs to be in full control of.

As is said above, the tracks could be pushed to clients by the servers such as levels in CSS and I don't really see the downside of this, there will still be servers with the current levels on and people racing - there probably will just be more servers up.

I also am getting bored of LFS tracks, although this may be due to me being a rally fan, I often find myself taking pits at speed just to test my car control in very narrow spaces. So I would love to see a hill climb track available at some point, even if it is only for hot lapping - but I'm pretty sure as with most hill climb venues there could be room for multiplayer games if there was a road connecting the finish to the start. Though I am not sure how flexible the code is to venture away from standard circuit stuff.

I would love a way to add OFFLINE cars/tracks. Add-on cars and track would not be able beeing used online, but offline.
Whats wrong with creating shitty tracks or cars if it's just for offline use? Online we would be limited to the LFS base cars and tracks, to ensure quality and possible mismatch / have to search for mod download every time you tried to connect to a different server.

i wouldnt mind it if mods had to be aproved by the devs befor it was allowed online access and it was done once a month like aprovals of the mods so new patch each month.

but lets say heaps of people make goods mods then we might have to many cars/ tracks then we would need groups for tracks / cars like

tracks folders
street circuts
race tracks
endrance
or country options and same could be done with cars

ps the devs would have to have a claws with each patch stating the update is not their own they take no responsabilty for it and not include any of their own work they might charge money for.

Quote from stacks9 :

sadly to say im on rfactor more now

May the flame be on u! :hbomb:

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

i wouldnt mind it if mods had to be aproved by the devs befor it was allowed online access and it was done once a month like aprovals of the mods so new patch each month.

but lets say heaps of people make goods mods then we might have to many cars/ tracks then we would need groups for tracks / cars like

tracks folders
street circuts
race tracks
endrance
or country options and same could be done with cars

ps the devs would have to have a claws with each patch stating the update is not their own they take no responsabilty for it and not include any of their own work they might charge money for.

Thats a good idea and it brings up even a better idea in my mind(and apart from The Very End's suggestion) -> 1st mods to be released by the people for offline use and a poll to be added if the mod is lets say good/bad/buggy and if it has 50% votes for good and more than 250 voters FOR EXAMPLE to make it so the mod is being automatically added to a database and => if it exists in some server people to download it. That way if servers are with non-approved mods and they don't exist in the database people will just not be able to use them as they wont be downloaded. But I'd say disable this for demo users.

Quote from broken :

Thats a good idea and it brings up even a better idea in my mind(and apart from The Very End's suggestion) -> 1st mods to be released by the people for offline use and a poll to be added if the mod is lets say good/bad/buggy and if it has 50% votes for good and more than 250 voters FOR EXAMPLE to make it so the mod is being automatically added to a database and => if it exists in some server people to download it. That way if servers are with non-approved mods and they don't exist in the database people will just not be able to use them as they wont be downloaded. But I'd say disable this for demo users.

I think that if ever there are custom mades tracks, either you DL them from the server or a FTP to enter it, either they are included in an official add-on pack after being reviewed by competent people. Otherwise, we might get a lot of cruise tracks of look alike drift arenas, too much for being interesting imho.

Maybe the devs could 'employ' a team of moderetors that would like to test the tracks, seeingif they are worth it, and after passing that test, would offer them to the devs for a final judgements, if they are not too busy

Zen, that sounds rather similar to my idea regarding Community content ... I can't be bothered to link to it but there's a search function.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Zen, that sounds rather similar to my idea regarding Community content ... I can't be bothered to link to it but there's a search function.

Glad it has already been posted, I was scared I would be the only one with that idea

Ok, first of all I applaud the idea of expanding LFS beyond what it currently offers... As it is now, it's still being developed and not even nearing a complete simulator. First priority for the devs therefor should be to finish the simulator to a point where they are happy enough with it to call it version 1.0. The one problem with it is that the promise of 'more to come' is keeping a lot of people here, or switching between other sims and here. They're still here. If this was all there was to it, then there would be nobody left on here in about 6 months. No promise of added content = boredom = no players.

Add-on content is therefor an absolute must.

Having the community create those add-ons poses us with another problem that is very clearly proven by rFactor. You can only play the newest mods online, plus one or two really popular ones. People will start looking for new areas to explore once they know the old areas, so mods get abandoned, and before you know it you have a game folder that is nearing 30GB of data which you only occasionaly use.

The solution for the 'rFactor syndrome' of having a gazillion mods that you don't use may be to have the devs create them. But that would mean LFS can only live for as long as the devs are willing to spend time on a project that in their eyes is already finished. Sure, a paycheck might help motivating them, but that would mean each and every mod would come at a price. Not unreasonable, but there would be many people that simply won't or are unable to pay for an extra track or two. So, the end result will be a lot less people playing, and the devs ultimately giving up becomes they cannot generate enough income to keep it up.

Another solution would be to have some sort of community vote on mods, and if they reach a high enough number it gets added to the online capable tracks/cars. The community as a whole is generally a nice bunch of people, but I wouldn't trust them to objectively vote on all mods that will be created. rFcentral has a system in which you can vote for mods, and even the worst mods get 450+ out of 500 ratings as long as they are created by popular groups. We all know most of the people here don't like ovals and NASCAR, so guess what will happen to mods that recreate those types of seasons. Not that you would actually do that, but the possibility shouldn't even exist.

Another problem is licensing. If we let the devs handle the add-ons, then we can be sure that there will never be any real tracks in LFS, or any real cars beyond the ones the devs will get asked to create. Simply because they are using those mods to boost the sales of LFS it will be subject to commercial laws, and therefor license fees would need to be paid to include protected (real) series and cars. Having the devs decide which mods get added or not is for that very reason out of the question.

That leaves us with a very simple set of problems to be solved.
- A group of people (not affiliated with LFS in a way other than being players) will need to decide on the quality of the mods.
- Those people would need to vote on mods that interest them, so that road racers won't be able to vote on ovals or rally, or NASCAR fans on formula 1 cars, etc.
- If for some reason mods won't be accepted for online play, they should still be made available for offline play. Many mods are created for the community to enjoy because people enjoy giving something back. Spending months on creating a mod that might never be accepted is not something many people would enjoy doing. It also helps if a mod is available for everyone, so nobody gets an advantage in prior knowledge once it's released.
- Mods should not be able to change the physics of the game. Cars need to use the physics that LFS uses, and the only changable parameters should be those that are actually on the car. Just so that no clearly unrealistic physicsset can be used like they are in rFactor.
- There should be a single site on the internet from which all mods (accepted or not) are linked, so that there will be no uncertainties about where to obtain a mod if you don't have it.

As far as LFS the program itself is concerned, there needs to be some way of facilitating mods...
- A flag in any car/track/season file to check it for online acceptance. This needs to be server side as well as local, so my guess would be to have it check a checksum/hash in a database online. If the value is not in the database it cannot be used online. This system is already in place (to stop cheating) so it only needs to be modified a bit.
- Proper file and folder management, so that all the content available can be put in a logical place to make it easy to manage or use. Like setup files going in the track folder instead of a general setups folder, or tracks in a subfolder sorted by type or season.

If all of these problems can be solved (we have plenty of time) then I can see no problem with mods in LFS.

My $0.02

Quote from TagForce :

Ok, first of all I applaud the idea of expanding LFS beyond what it currently offers... As it is now, it's still being developed and not even nearing a complete simulator. First priority for the devs therefor should be to finish the simulator to a point where they are happy enough with it to call it version 1.0. The one problem with it is that the promise of 'more to come' is keeping a lot of people here, or switching between other sims and here. They're still here. If this was all there was to it, then there would be nobody left on here in about 6 months. No promise of added content = boredom = no players.

Add-on content is therefor an absolute must.

Having the community create those add-ons poses us with another problem that is very clearly proven by rFactor. You can only play the newest mods online, plus one or two really popular ones. People will start looking for new areas to explore once they know the old areas, so mods get abandoned, and before you know it you have a game folder that is nearing 30GB of data which you only occasionaly use.

The solution for the 'rFactor syndrome' of having a gazillion mods that you don't use may be to have the devs create them. But that would mean LFS can only live for as long as the devs are willing to spend time on a project that in their eyes is already finished. Sure, a paycheck might help motivating them, but that would mean each and every mod would come at a price. Not unreasonable, but there would be many people that simply won't or are unable to pay for an extra track or two. So, the end result will be a lot less people playing, and the devs ultimately giving up becomes they cannot generate enough income to keep it up.

Another solution would be to have some sort of community vote on mods, and if they reach a high enough number it gets added to the online capable tracks/cars. The community as a whole is generally a nice bunch of people, but I wouldn't trust them to objectively vote on all mods that will be created. rFcentral has a system in which you can vote for mods, and even the worst mods get 450+ out of 500 ratings as long as they are created by popular groups. We all know most of the people here don't like ovals and NASCAR, so guess what will happen to mods that recreate those types of seasons. Not that you would actually do that, but the possibility shouldn't even exist.

Another problem is licensing. If we let the devs handle the add-ons, then we can be sure that there will never be any real tracks in LFS, or any real cars beyond the ones the devs will get asked to create. Simply because they are using those mods to boost the sales of LFS it will be subject to commercial laws, and therefor license fees would need to be paid to include protected (real) series and cars. Having the devs decide which mods get added or not is for that very reason out of the question.

That leaves us with a very simple set of problems to be solved.
- A group of people (not affiliated with LFS in a way other than being players) will need to decide on the quality of the mods.
- Those people would need to vote on mods that interest them, so that road racers won't be able to vote on ovals or rally, or NASCAR fans on formula 1 cars, etc.
- If for some reason mods won't be accepted for online play, they should still be made available for offline play. Many mods are created for the community to enjoy because people enjoy giving something back. Spending months on creating a mod that might never be accepted is not something many people would enjoy doing. It also helps if a mod is available for everyone, so nobody gets an advantage in prior knowledge once it's released.
- Mods should not be able to change the physics of the game. Cars need to use the physics that LFS uses, and the only changable parameters should be those that are actually on the car. Just so that no clearly unrealistic physicsset can be used like they are in rFactor.
- There should be a single site on the internet from which all mods (accepted or not) are linked, so that there will be no uncertainties about where to obtain a mod if you don't have it.

As far as LFS the program itself is concerned, there needs to be some way of facilitating mods...
- A flag in any car/track/season file to check it for online acceptance. This needs to be server side as well as local, so my guess would be to have it check a checksum/hash in a database online. If the value is not in the database it cannot be used online. This system is already in place (to stop cheating) so it only needs to be modified a bit.
- Proper file and folder management, so that all the content available can be put in a logical place to make it easy to manage or use. Like setup files going in the track folder instead of a general setups folder, or tracks in a subfolder sorted by type or season.

If all of these problems can be solved (we have plenty of time) then I can see no problem with mods in LFS.

My $0.02

Its a nice idea, but i think is a shame that people spend their time writing things like this which never even get considered for the game.

Also, in the thread above, some people posted that the original cars in LFS looked 'good'. LFS was started in the early '00s, so why do some of the cars look like they are from the 1980's (XRG, UF1, XFG), and the rest are drivel from the 90's (FXO, RB4 etc.). Also, it looks like some of the cars were drawn with rulers. For example, look above the side windows on the RB4, and the wheelarches. Even the curves were drawn with a ruler

Well all those replies(which were on the topic) were true... LFS can get too big from those mods. People can vote for "their" people on the votes if such are made. Over stuffed servers will come. And so on... Maybe the solution to limit this is in the money again. Demo racers have more than 1 account. Why? Simply - because they don't pay to make one. Well then this thing with the mods can be to limit the mods to lets say 1 mod per month and give every mod a cheap price..

Now I know most of the people won't like the idea but that's the only way from keeping people from over-stuffing their servers. Maybe give a mod price like $0.50 so it can be affordable for everyone. Or even make mod packs that cost 50cents so that people know they are getting something more than just a car or a track.

If this happens I think that people will 1st look what the best mod is then test it and THEN if nothing is wrong with it buy it. And so whenever someone buys a mod to make it so his username and the mod's id are added in the database and then whenever he wants to go on a server and activate it(his server or some of his friends' server. To prevent cases of 1 user activating a mod in too much servers then add option to deactivate them from lfsworld(because if the user eventually gets banned he can't do it from the server(logically)) and limit the activations to lets say 5(because some people have more servers).

Well.. I think thats it.

You guys forget the two most important factors which prevent modding for LfS

1) Updates of LfS can and will break mod compatibility.

2) Scawen would need to develop an SDK that is usable by the average joe. AFAIK, the dev tools of LfS are not what you'd call user friendly. Additionally, he would have to create the documentation and provide support for it.