I just hope the "new" WRC cars have anti-lag.

IMO this is good, more manuafactuers will come and the sport will be alive agian somewhat even if the cars are slower.

Quote from henrico-20- :

i also read during the photo search a news letter from october that Volkswagen wanted to build a Scirocco WRC! i will probably won't go in production now since WRC goes to s-2000 now

The whole plan for Scirocco WRC exists thanks to S2000. As far as I remember VW wanted some changes to S2000 regulations, mostly to dimensions and wanted the rules to allow paddle shifting (so they could promote DSG). This is just what was said in a car magazine two months ago.

Subaru pulls out of the WRC
http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?l ... ls%20out%20of%20the%20WRC

so, will the WRC cars in 2010 same as we see in WTCC?

Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery: "We've got manufacturers ready to commit cars to the new formula. Manufacturers like FIAT, Volkswagen and Peugeot will, I'm sure, have cars, and Citroen and Ford are going to build cars."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72495

Quote from Mustafur :

IMO this is good, more manuafactuers will come and the sport will be alive agian somewhat even if the cars are slower.

Look at the companies that have S2000 cars already and you will realise how wrong you are. Vauxhall, Suzuki, Citreon, and none of those will be in the WRC, so they will end up with a load of Skoda's. Then the best drivers will leave because it's not the most challenging rally event they can take part in. So you will have a bunch of average drivers in slow Skoda's taking part in special stages inside stadiums once every 2 years.

EDIT: I doubt Ford or Citreon will make cars, Ford nearly pulled out of the WRC not long ago because of money concerns, and Citreon will lose their best driver and probably shift their budget over to DTM.

Quote from Don :

what i meant is - whether the WRC can survive next year :/ imagine there might only be 2 manufacturers - WTF

the lack of works team may be a good thing
back in the 70's and early 80's most of the team were private teams

There are still many private teams and privateers mind you... But they don't have the budget to be in all 12 races planned this year probably...
Ok subaru has been not too good for awile, but to see it pull out is reallllly sad... + I guess then.. the rumors about Gronholm with a scoobie next year are probably false.. oh well.. Tbh this year has already been kinda empty... But it still had good moments..

Seriously fast? Doesn't look it to me. Looks very average. Well, I guess I am just used to seeing WRC cars going flat out.

I'm sure you could forgive me for thinking that does not look very quick after watching something like this - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v= ... i6QuI&feature=related

Quote from Don :

they are faster than PWRC (n4 evos and imprezas) usually

Quote from Gills4life :

Hmm, they honestly don't look it in that vid.

They are usually faster. The ARC, ERC, and IRC run both PWRC (ie. Grp N) and S2000 cars, and S2000 cars are generally superior.

The new WRC spec will be S2000 + control turbo, so they should be very quick. The biggest complaint about S2000 cars are their lack of torque, which will be remedied by the control turbo. They probably won't be as fast as current WRC, but will be clearly faster than PWRC, and quite possibly more spectacular as well.

Well, as I stated before, the sport needs a shakeup. Sebastian Loeb was winning basically every stage. It wasn't really a sport anymore. Just a repeat of last week.

Anything that brings a change is going to bring back some viewers. And it's only from then on can we see what the changes have 'done' to the sport.

They need to do something otherwise WRC is gonna die like F1 has. Although i wouldnt be surprised if FIA couldnt care less cos thats how much they suck.

Quote from trebor901 :

They need to do something otherwise WRC is gonna die like F1 has.

Quote from trebor901 :

They need to do something otherwise WRC is gonna die like F1 has.

What are you talking about f1 has been more exciting the past few year since the turn of the decade, the racing and points tallies are a lot closer, just hope the new regs dont ruin the racing, the first motorsport to "die" as you put it was the btcc in which only 2 manufacturing companies are competing the rest being privatly owned teams.

Rallying is on the brink of "dying" because of the subaru and suzuki teams pulling out (mitsubishi and peugot a few years ago aswell) this is why the new regs are being put into place, so more teams can run more cars as they will be cheaper to buy and run.

Quote from S3ANPukekoh3 :

What is actually the difference between S2000 and WRC?

In simplest terms...

S2000:

2L naturally-aspirated engine, standard 6-speed sequential gearbox, all mechanical diffs, resale price limited to 168000 Euros.

WRC:

2L turbo-charged engine with 34mm inlet restrictor, 6-speed custom sequential gearbox, front and rear mechanical diffs and electronic centre diff, costs a fortune .

Quote from S3ANPukekoh3 :

So exactly the same as they are now... They're allowed to use turbos aren't they...?

Nope, definitely not exactly the same.

The WRC version of S2000 will use a low-pressure standard turbo (ie. same turbo for all cars, and it will be low-pressure only) to overcome the lack of torque in normal S2000 cars. Currently, turbo technology takes up a big chunk of a WRC car's engine development. Standard turbos will cut the cost.

Gearboxes for S2000 are standardised with only two manufacturers authorised to produced them (to the same specs), contrast to current WRC cars with custom gearboxes.

Current WRC cars have an electronically-controlled centre differential. Differentials for S2000 are prohibited from being electronically-controlled. In fact, electronic driver aids are entirely banned from S2000. Lack of electronic centre diff means drivers will need to be more flexible in their driving, and throw their car sideways more.

The other difference between WRC and the 2010 rally S2000 spec, is that S2000 will be fitted with standard aero kits (obviously with minor customisations for each car) with limits on the amount of time that can be taken to fit/unfit them to a car.

Probably the biggest difference overall is the cost. S2000 cars cost only a tiny fraction of a WRC. Hopefully that will result in greater number of participants: privateers can afford the cars easier, and factory teams can actually afford to develop an S2000 car without spending millions in development costs.

Do you actually know why it [group b] was banned? The cars were simply too fast and to expensive. The problem was that the FIA waited for someone to be killed to ban it.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Do you actually know why it was banned? The cars were simply too fast and to expensive. The problem was that the FIA waited for someone to be killed to ban it.

nowadays wrc cars are faster and even more expensive...and are less fun to watch, great ...
btw, switching to S2000 modified is maybe not a bad idea (on the money side)... Still the lack of power being not very interesting.
Probably in some years the basic diesel family car will have the same amount of power as a wrc ... not very exciting to know when we know that rally cars were nearly as fast as F1 cars in the past

Group B cars were faster in a straight line (but slower around corners), and that was especially the case with rally crowd control and the strength of rollcages, which has improved to an extent but safety on tracks (where you wrap the car around a tyre stack) and safety on rally stages (where you wrap the car around a tree) are different.

S2000+ sounds like a good idea, maybe the + bit could be factored in for the WTCC?

Quote from duke_toaster :

Group B cars were faster in a straight line (but slower around corners), and that was especially the case with rally crowd control and the strength of rollcages, which has improved to an extent but safety on tracks (where you wrap the car around a tyre stack) and safety on rally stages (where you wrap the car around a tree) are different.

S2000+ sounds like a good idea, maybe the + bit could be factored in for the WTCC?

that would be realy great!

Quote from samjh :

Nope, definitely not exactly the same.

The WRC version of S2000 will use a low-pressure standard turbo (ie. same turbo for all cars, and it will be low-pressure only) to overcome the lack of torque in normal S2000 cars. Currently, turbo technology takes up a big chunk of a WRC car's engine development. Standard turbos will cut the cost.

Gearboxes for S2000 are standardised with only two manufacturers authorised to produced them (to the same specs), contrast to current WRC cars with custom gearboxes.

Current WRC cars have an electronically-controlled centre differential. Differentials for S2000 are prohibited from being electronically-controlled. In fact, electronic driver aids are entirely banned from S2000. Lack of electronic centre diff means drivers will need to be more flexible in their driving, and throw their car sideways more.

The other difference between WRC and the 2010 rally S2000 spec, is that S2000 will be fitted with standard aero kits (obviously with minor customisations for each car) with limits on the amount of time that can be taken to fit/unfit them to a car.

FIA has recently published details or where from you got these details? Of course S2000 regulations already exist, but I mean the "S2000+" part of the regs, like turbos.

Quote from Flotch :

not very exciting to know when we know that rally cars were nearly as fast as F1 cars in the past

Do you seriously believe in the Estoril S4 myth?

Quote from deggis :

FIA has recently published details or where from you got these details? Of course S2000 regulations already exist, but I mean the "S2000+" part of the regs, like turbos.

Preliminary regs have been decided by the WMSC at various meetings throughout last year. It's still subject to review.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/media ... 08/Pages/wmsc_121208.aspx
"As already announced, the 2010 World Rally Car will be S2000 based. However, the removable kit, already adopted by the WMSC, will be redefined with no electronic benefits, or similar upgrades, to ensure cost reductions."

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/media ... 60308_WMSC_Decisions.aspx
"The WRC Car will be based on the current Super 2000 and Group N cars, fitted with a supplementary kit, which includes turbo and rear-wing additions. The kit must be able to be fitted or removed within a defined time limit, to be determined."

There are more, but not published as part of official WMSC press releases.

I know those links. So no real details yet. Just asked because I thought I had missed something.