Quote from SilverArrows77 :

lol oh dear....so close yet so far (no actually.. not close at all.....)

Basically, Tris has it right. Or at least partially right. All road cars are, of course, built to a market price point and therefore a set of compromises. As they come out of the factory they are the best that they can be for the price point and market position intended by the manufacturer and the idea that spending a few hundred pounds on body kit, loud exhaust and/or larger (read heavier) wheels in isolation is going to make the car perform better is just ignorance pure and simple.

However, that doesn't mean that such a car can't be improved to meet the individual users set of compromises, (which may well not be the same as the manufacturers), to improve certain aspects of the cars performance. But, it requires a proper understanding of vehicle dynamics and comprehensive set of changes to improve things such as suspension performance. These things aren't actually difficult to understand, but most people never bother to take the time to understand them before embarking on their £££ spending spree on bigger heavier alloys, plastic bodywork etc.

Quote from Bean0 :

We use the word 'Jap' as an abbreviation for Japanese, it is used in magazines, we have a car show called Japfest, etc

I haven't read the full thread but just wanted to comment on this reply.
If we use the word jap as an abbreviation for japanese and 'isn't' racist, why is it when someone uses the term 'Paki' as an abbreviation for Pakistani, why is that considered racist if Jap isn't?

I am not bothered about what names people use to describe people though.

Paki isn't racist, it's only because of thier culture and that certain members of that culture take offense to it.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Paki isn't racist, it's only because of thier culture and that certain members of that culture take offense to it.

Why do the majority seem to say it is a racist term then?

Sam - the point of that sub-topic of conversation is that it's madness. Why should Paki be taboo when Brit is allowed. If they come from Pakistan then they ARE Pakis, pure and simple. I suggest you, along with others, read a thread before replying to it, else you'll reply out of context, or worse.

@below:

Because most of them have chips on thier shoulder?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Sam - the point of that sub-topic of conversation is that it's madness. Why should Paki be taboo when Brit is allowed. If they come from Pakistan then they ARE Pakis, pure and simple. I suggest you, along with others, read a thread before replying to it, else you'll reply out of context, or worse.

@below:

I do think they are Paki's also, I was just saying that the majority seem to say the term Paki is a racist comment which I don't think it is at all.

Lol Tristan, damn those chips!

A lot of, erm, Asians(?) take offence at being called Pakis because they are actually from India. This I can understand...it's like calling a Geordie a Mackem.

Afghans don't seem to mind us dropping the "-istani", and I'm sure there's more.

I like "ricer" because it sounds like rice.

Quote from sam93 :

I do think they are Paki's also, I was just saying that the majority seem to say the term Paki is a racist comment which I don't think it is at all.

Yeah really? I don't know maybe most of you aren't old enough to realise it but the reason it's a racist comment is because it was used by supporters of the NF and other racist bigots in the UK as a term of abuse against Asians in this country, (even as has been stated if they weren't even from Pakistan).

Since when has the term "Brit" ever been used in a negative way to our faces and at the same time with us getting our faces kicked in??? That's why being called a Brit isn't racist and why terms like P*ki, N*gger, Y*d etc are.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Better wheels? Lighter ones might be better, but then the springs and dampers need to be changed to suit the new unsprung weight and wheel frequencies. Most don't bother. Doing the job improperly = RICE!

Lower offset? So it changes the steering and suspension geometry? And no corrective measures taken? Doing the job improperly = RICE

Wider wheels. RICE

Suspension bushes. Ruin the cars ride for a tiny, tiny improvement in wheel control and negligable change in handling, grip or safety? RICE

Coilovers. Some arbitrarily chosen stiffness, damping and length that probably doesn't suit the wheels, tyres and other changes. Therefore RICE.

Swaybars. Arbitrarily stiffening the car to reduce body roll without any idea what the original roll was, what it did to the tyres (camber change in roll), or what it does to the load transfer distribution? RICE

Intercoolers. RICE. No need to change the standard one, as it's designed to work with the engine. Changing or adding a turbo is RICE.
Intake 'stuff'. RICE
Boost Controllers. RICE
ECU. RICE
Exhausts. RICE (unless changing to a stainless steel system of the same design). Big Bore in any part of the system = RICE. Decatting car might be rice, but it depends on the motive. To save or replace a dead catalyst it's okay, but to free up the 0.1hp it might give you is RICE.
Cam Gears. RICE
Cams. RICE

The general rule of thumb is if the car is intended for the road and is modified in almost any way other than replacing worn out/broken stuff vaguely like for like (i.e. stainless exhausts or even clear side repeaters), then it's probably RICE, and the owner is probably a dunce.

not really, maybe you change the part to either enchance lifespan or increase performance...


i wait...


dammit,


im a noob for adding poly brushes and such to my suspention for the heck of it cause im sick of the old rubber ones...


im such a ricer...


Best be getting some wolfrace wheels, mutant subs and a carbox fiber back box...

HALFORDS HERE I COME>>>>>>>

I don't think the word ricer is offensive, at least compared to the one I use to describe the type of person that drives a Vauxhall Nova with a loud exhaust and rear spoiler. It rhymes with punt.

Hunt?

Runt

Oh great. I need tires for the wife's car as they are worn out and I was going to get something better than the 18000 mile noisy no grip on dry, wet, or snow garbage factory tires that are on it now. I wouldn't want Tristan to call me a ricer so I guess I'd better get the same junk that the factory put on it. After all, it is well known that auto manufacturers really care and design everything perfect and don't just farm out everything to the cheapest bidder...

I guess I'd better remove the 15 inch aluminum rims from my Altima and put back on the heavy factory steel 14 inch wheels because obviously that is far better.

Yes, I said rims on purpose just for Tristan's sake.

As I work for an automotive manufacturer supplier of parts, please don't try to tell me that the auto manuf. designs things that would be the best design. They are designed first on cost and 2nd on a compromise of performance in favor of quiteness (airbox and exhaust for example.)

A ricer is someone that makes modifications to their car to make it seem faster, or attempts to make it faster using modifications, but fails to do either. It's adapted from a Spanish word "ricarius", which is someone that sucks at everything.

although i understand where tristian is coming from, i think he's completely lost the whole meaning of the word rice and has become one of those guys who over-use a word. (league of gentlemen sketch comes to mind). the word "rice" when talking about cars came from the styling and styling alone. it's refered to asthe "jap styling" this is not to be confussed with a rice burner (asian made car).if there was a distinct irish styling then i'm sure it would of been called spudding or something alone those lines.
a ricer is for looks and nothing more. a sleeper is about performance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricing

Quote from mrodgers :

Oh great. I need tires for the wife's car as they are worn out and I was going to get something better than the 18000 mile noisy no grip on dry, wet, or snow garbage factory tires that are on it now. I wouldn't want Tristan to call me a ricer so I guess I'd better get the same junk that the factory put on it. After all, it is well known that auto manufacturers really care and design everything perfect and don't just farm out everything to the cheapest bidder...

I guess I'd better remove the 15 inch aluminum rims from my Altima and put back on the heavy factory steel 14 inch wheels because obviously that is far better.

Yes, I said rims on purpose just for Tristan's sake.

As I work for an automotive manufacturer supplier of parts, please don't try to tell me that the auto manuf. designs things that would be the best design. They are designed first on cost and 2nd on a compromise of performance in favor of quiteness (airbox and exhaust for example.)

Tyres are slightly different. I know as well as you that in most cases OEM tyres are a bit rubbish. If you want to upgrade them that's your choice. I don't bother. I prefer having slightly more steering feel that a harder tyre tends to give, and by lowering 'The Limit' any accident I have will probably occur about 2mph (perhaps an important amount) slower.

As for the wheels, did you bother to change the damping and springing to suit the new unsprung weight? If not then, by my standards, you are a ricing idiot that shouldn't be allowed to flick through car 'accessory' books. If you did then congratulations, you are in an advanced minority of people that know what they're doing.

You are aware at the mileage and research the manufacturers do to sort out damping etc. Quite possibly the most important part of vehicle dynamics.

But stock suspension can't be modified in any way, can it? With a Bilstein PSS9 or KW var3 you can modify the height, damping and rebound, I think. I might mix it up, as I don't know the english words for all the settings. But height and stiffness on the PSS9 and KW var 3 has rebound speed (?) as well, I think.

My 17" summer season tyres are worn out, and when I buy new ones, I will buy 18". I've tried both and I feel a clear difference in steering response. Less rubber to bend around, I guess. When/if I buy the PSS9 as well, I can modify it to suit the new weight, right? It might not be any extra weight at all. The 17" solid Audi OEM wheels are probably heavier than 18" OZ Superturismo GT. I'm not in the group that knows, but in the one that cares. I'll put it away to a professional for adjustments if I have to.

Certainly better than nothing. It usually takes a manufacturer about a million miles to decide on damping for a model (but obviously they are doing more than one specification of car in more than one climate), but I'd have thought a few thousand miles of driving will get it about right.

Any 'professional' that tells you they can set the damping in a workshop is deluded. It is also unlikely they are professionals, but tradesmen.*

*amusing we get a magazine here called Professional Motor Mechanic. It would seem the mechanics don't like to be reminded they don't have a professional.

To be honest, you can spend £1000's on 'improving' your car, however for the tune of a couple of hundred quid, you can get a couple of days driver training. Best of all, you can transfer this between your cars, so there's no need to 'upgrade' your new one!

Quote from tristancliffe :

You are aware at the mileage and research the manufacturers do to sort out damping etc. Quite possibly the most important part of vehicle dynamics.

You are aware of the fact that I work for an OEM auto manufacturer supplier of assembly line parts and that the research is mostly "Bridgestone will supply us for $X and Michilen will supply us for $XX, so we'll go with Bridgestone...."

Same goes for braking components, suspension components (shocks/springs), sheetmetal, interior components, glass, just about the entire list of components of a car.

I suppose that anything above the base model of a factory option is also rice then because everyone offers different style, size, and materials (weight) of wheel/tire combinations yet they all have the same suspension. So, if I want air conditioning in my car and have to get the next up from the base model which also replaces the 14 inch steel wheels with 15 inch aluminum wheels, that is considered a ricer?

You are aware that they don't order the cheapest spring rate or the cheapest damper rates either, aren't you? They might have cheap components, but the damping, spring, tyre pressures, tyre sizes, brake components, glass thickness, sheetmetal thickness etc are designed over a long period of time and tested over millions of miles.

Sure, you might sell a cheap clutch to Joe Bloggs, but the clutch will have been carefully chosen for that application so that it's not too heavy, too expensive or too weak (in simple terms).

If a difference in spec is large enough then components do differ between model specification. And a lot of 'standard' cars are ricery, because they've had bling wheels and a bodykit fitted on as a marketing exercise without the extreme testing. This is why late model 'sports' varients (as opposed to sporty varients launched initially) are usually not that nice to drive.

Hmmm, rice has gone from being about modified Jap boxes to being about all cars in general, I think peeps are missing the point slightly.

Rice was originally used as a derogatory word to describe cars and bikes as well ('rice rocket'), and perhaps even other products imported from Asia/Japan.

However it can also be used affectionately.

The proper term for an unsuitably modified car is 'eyesore'.