Im not a part of ANY religion

This whole thread is pointless, in fact, all religious discussions are pointless.

It's just everyone defending their own viewpoint, and nobody ever changing their mind.

Well, you still have to try though Also, I find enjoyment in discussions that exist just for the discussion's sake.

I find the topic very interesting, myself. Not from a religious perspective but from a sociological point of view. I respect people have beliefs and even if I don't share them, I find their explanations of how they come to hold them (and often their inability to explain the same) a source of fascination.

I also love cathedrals and old churches, though there's nothing religious about my interest in their architecture.

Anyone defending their own spiritual conviction to those that think otherwise, are inconfident of it and are trying to justify the reason why they have chosen so.

I personally see my view as my own reality and am as sure about it as a human being can be, and that's what it should be; personal.

If you are truly happy and convinced with yourself and your opinions, you don't see a need to change others.

Quote from (SaM) :

If you are truly happy and convinced with yourself and your opinions, you don't see a need to change others.

Unfortinetly the stupid jehovas witnesses doesnt understand that ... Bunch of retard imo ... Annoying ones.

Like SamH said, it brings up interesting discussion and the point is not even trying to convince others to change their mind. Being someone who is not religious at all and likes to sit back and figure out how stuff works, it's interesting to hear how people adjust their beliefs into modern society.

Oh and those old cathedrals, they're amazing. Just considering the amount of small details you can find, today's architectural masterpieces seem so bland in comparison.

Quote from (SaM) :

Anyone defending their own spiritual conviction to those that think otherwise, are inconfident of it and are trying to justify the reason why they have chosen so.

I dont know if that's necessarily true. For me the abolition of religion is something I feel passionately about. It's nothing to do with my own insecurities which I can assure you are quite different.

SamH said it fairly well already, along with others, the discussion in itself is often interesting. A debate need not be held for the sake of finding a commonly agreed solution.

Ironically I write this as Electric Hellfire Club - Kiss the Goat plays on my iTunes, with the frequently repeatedly lyric "Pray to Satan". Oh well, i'll listen to some Joan Osbourne later to make up for it :P

I'm a firm believer and member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (in other words, an atheist)









What, you think that's stupid? What do you believe in then?

Krane: I belive in that too!!!

Quote from Becky Rose :

I dont know if that's necessarily true. For me the abolition of religion is something I feel passionately about. It's nothing to do with my own insecurities which I can assure you are quite different.

Trust me, just like you I "pray" to see a day in my life from where we live without a single religion and where each one of us are aware of ourselves, our world and our uniqueness. Because this world can live without religion and in fact, it will be great without. Coming to that conclusion simply means you see the world with a different set of eyes than the religious do.

Defending one's viewpoint however, comes from a feeling that the viewpoint can be harmed or altered by other opinions. If you're really confident and sure of your beliefs, it's infinitely strong and it cannot be harmed. If you also respect your own opinions and yourself for that matter, you are also given the opportunity to respect others and let them have their viewpoint.

Quote from Becky Rose :

SamH said it fairly well already, along with others, the discussion in itself is often interesting. A debate need not be held for the sake of finding a commonly agreed solution.

I see that many of you are simply discussing theories and are playing with philosophy, which indeed is interesting. However, most posts contain (passive or offensive) defenses of people's viewpoint with none of the intended effect whatsoever, which is where I sigh.

So I do take back my statement "this thread is pointless" but I still say that the majority of the posts in this thread are pointless.

Agnostic

In my own view religious zealot and Atheist are pretty much the same.

Both have the infamous "Faith" for their belief and both often fell like they have a divine mission (sorry for the atheist) to convert everybody else to their way of thinking.

I say that I don't know and I'm fine with it. Well not exactly! But I won't take any "theory" for granted just to fill the vacuum.

I must say that there are too many religious people that just won't shut the hell up about trying to convert you.. do you get extra cookies in 'Heaven' (if such a place exists) if you convert at least 1,000 people during your lifetime or something? I don't care if you're religious, and you shouldn't care if we are either!

Quote from Maelstrom :

In my own view religious zealot and Atheist are pretty much the same.

Both have the infamous "Faith" for their belief and both often fell like they have a divine mission (sorry for the atheist) to convert everybody else to their way of thinking.

I don't have a transcendental mission to convert any one - I don't go to rallies infront of churches or funerals holding placards that say you don't go anywhere when you die or terrorize any one. However if the subject comes up in conversation or forum I'll let my view of the world sarcastically known.

Quote from Krane :

I don't have a transcendental mission to convert any one - I don't go to rallies infront of churches or funerals holding placards that say you don't go anywhere when you die or terrorize any one. However if the subject comes up in conversation or forum I'll let my view of the world sarcastically known.

That what the "Often" is made for

Quote from Maelstrom :

That what the "Often" is made for

Quoting you is what "often" and "in general" is made for

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

do you get extra cookies in 'Heaven' (if such a place exists) if you convert at least 1,000 people during your lifetime or something?

Well maybe, in the meantime it's about extra $$$ in the present hell though

Quote from (SaM) :

Defending one's viewpoint however, comes from a feeling that the viewpoint can be harmed or altered by other opinions.

I had a long chat with one of the many pairs of Jehova's Witnesses to stop by my house in the last few months (Actually I had long chat with all but one lot who I was too busy to give any time too). During that conversation all parties agreed it was good to re-evaluate your faith regularly, to take in new information and process it, even if only to reaffirm your beliefs.

I have good hopes that 1 of the persons I spoke too is on the path to atleast understanding the context of the bible, if not putting it down all together.

Maybe I wont 'convert' any body, but maybe over time something I say might ring home for somebody when they re-evaluate their fath.

I'm not ashamed of arguing my point of view vehemently, of telling religious people that their wrong, explaining the history of the bible and demonstrating how it cannot be the word of God, of pointing out contradictions and double standards and vaguenesses which no God would have implied, of pointing out the obsurdities of a book that clearly resembles a moral code that's 2000 years old (like the seed of life thing discussed earlier in the Catholic bible). I'm not ashamed of my beliefs, i'll argue them and back them up with reasoned argument, because i've put a hell of a lot of thought into it. I started out indoctrinated, I walked away.

On topic of relegion realting to go here is movie what ar your opinions after seighn this?
Made by Ausi Blunty3000 wich I actaly subscribed to
Who or what is God?

I see good as force rather then a person

Quote from Becky Rose :

pointing out contradictions and double standards and vaguenesses which no God would have implied, of pointing out the obsurdities of a book that clearly resembles a moral code that's 2000 years old (like the seed of life thing discussed earlier in the Catholic bible).

You're totally off track! those are only a small part of the trials that God imposes on His humble beleviers to give them the opportunity to exercise their free will.

Every man has to face evil and choose with his own soul whether to accept the lure of Ultimate Evil or rather embrace the Light. But only the true believer will be able to cast your own evaluations aside, and submit your intellect to the will and power of God which are infinitely greater than any single men fallacious intellect.

Honest faith only can sprout off the ditching one's selfishness, and by accepting God with your entire being.

Now show me how you argue with that

Quote from NightShift :

Now show me how you argue with that

With guns?

/endirony

Well, the argument presented appears to be based upon the assumption that the contents of the bible is correct. I'd start by discussing the history of the bible and how it came about. To do this i'd need to know whether i'm dealing with old or new testament here.

With all debates, make sure you are fighting on home turf. See i'll argue the bible and it's home turf to Christians, that's fine. But i'll argue one of the contradictions not the airy fairy thoughts presented here.

My theory is that God could have communicated the bible to a human being, who wrote it down. The problem is, that person may have not copied down the word of god exactly. Let's say that they did, for all intensive purposes. But how many people have laid their hands on the Old Testament? Probably millions, if not billions. Each person who copied the Old Testament, or any bible for that matter, could have changed the wording slightly. Even if not purposely, I find it hard to believe that a huge document like the Old Testament could be copied down without any typos or errors at all. My point is, even if a bible originally was the word of God, there's no way it was preserved word for word after so many people have laid their hands on it.

Quote :

My theory is that God could have communicated the bible to a human being, who wrote it down.

The actual facts are quite well known The stories spread for many years by bardic trade caravans, as campfire stories, as exchanges of ideas, before various versions where written down and credit taken, and money made, and ultimately compiled into a book. Think of it as a compendium, based on stories spread by Chinese wispers told by bards because of a lack of television.

Then later along comes the Rome senate saying, "hmmm these stories dont all make sense, they contradict each other. Let's throw a load of the 'books' away.".

Only in some parts/denominations of America, and I meen no offence here at all it's quite literal although not representative of given individuals, is the bible considered to be the word of God. Even in the Vattican City you would be hard pressed to fiend anyone to state that the bible is indeed a word for word message from God, or indeed, written by God at all, but rather that it is the will of God.

Particularly as many of it's component books where written at different times and in different languages. Worse yet, although responsible for eliminating the Cornish language (a good thing, it was daft) the King James bible is also responsible for many herretical interpretations (by herretical, I meen by the standards expressed in earlier texts) which have since passed into 'fact'.

Of course some effort has been made over the years to keep the bible 'up to date' and clear up any confusion, such as the 1957 rewrite where the word homosexual was specifically added as a sin, to clear up any confusion over the matter from the non-specific arguments previously present.

The bible was made with the best of intentions, in the classical era, with morals and understandings of the world consistent with that era, and has periodically been updated when it has not matched the prejudices of later epochs.

Thats the nutshell version of it, how you chose to interpret them is up to you, whether you wish to look more into it, whether you wish to use the basic facts as a guideline for HOW to interpret the bible should you believe in it, these are up to you.

But please dont be fooled into thinking that a forum with so many aetheists and agnostics will allow you to post "it is the words of God with a few typing errors" without provenencing it, when the bible itself clearly states the few words that are directly Gods words, and - here is a very important point - the books themselves are mostly named after the people that wrote them.

We're just a bunch of apes hurling through space on a hunk of rock. IF there is a being that created all this it was definitely just for lul'z.

On a more serious note: I think avoiding belief is impossible as a human. It seems to be a basic tool. Is it not belief that makes thoughts and images in our heads seem real? This is what makes superstition possible imo. To anticipate an event before it actually happens is a great asset, we just get carried away easily.
I think religion is only an indicator of how strong this ability is, non-religious people blindly believe in other things just like religious folk and not only when it comes to religious matters. I know I probably do as I have noticed this about myself on several occasions. Reevaluation is "the cure" though.

I see a great truth in the following: "Those that believe, go to Heaven. Those that don't believe, go to Hell."

Though I see it in another light than most people do.

I believe in myself, I have faith, respect and love for myself. This gives me strength and the power to fully love and respect others, and thus through my faith I create a Heaven on Earth.

I know many people that don't believe in themselves. The are weakened by their own low self-worth and lack of faith. They create a Hell on Earth.