Tires bending under wheel, this happens with road tires, does not happen so much with skicks as those are more rigid/stronger.

When I took my car first time to track I had just normal road pressures and my alloys got scratched, that is how much rubbers bend when taking those corners hard enough.


You can see here how edge of tire has been melting even I had that 3 bar pressure! 185/60-14 is size...
Also sidwalls have always shown some scrubbing against tarmac.

Scawen has made this special detail very close to perfection, imo.

it's all about presure presure presure, those pic that Tweak posted are normal road cars so i'm expecting them to have normal road presure, and that's high compared to what we use in game for our race set, that's why the tyres flex a lot, i wouldn't recomend it but u could go and inflate the tyres on youre car to the presure u have them (say on the FXO) in game and see if they flex as much
(AGAIN I WOULDN'T RECOMEND IT, i don't want anyone coming here saying Scoop i wrecked my car)

Anyone remember that red Porsche slomo vid, riding a curb?
I have it, if anyone can host it. It's 35 megs.

Quote from Scoop :

it's all about presure presure presure, those pic that Tweak posted are normal road cars so i'm expecting them to have normal road presure, and that's high compared to what we use in game for our race set, that's why the tyres flex a lot, i wouldn't recomend it but u could go and inflate the tyres on youre car to the presure u have them (say on the FXO) in game and see if they flex as much
(AGAIN I WOULDN'T RECOMEND IT, i don't want anyone coming here saying Scoop i wrecked my car)

Pressures of tires depends lot from what kind of tires are. Normal pressure to my tires is 2bar, if you put 3bar to lfs tires it flexes less than my tires in reallife...

In the BF1 with wheels only view and the default setup, there's visible deformation on high speed corners like after the long straight on AS Nat. Is the amount about right or should the pressures be higher?

http://www.gom.com/En/Applications/Deformation/lsc/tire.html

we also should have body deformation
http://www.gom.com/En/Applications/Deformation/lsc/car.html

i invite everyone that sys it is right, to take the xfg put tire pressure at 2.2 bars (the maximum recommended for car like xfg), put 3.5 live camber (that's huge!), hit F9 and drive slowly around blackwood you will be driving all time on sidewall (and this is wrong) but what is impossible is that the outer side of tire has 90% of the weight and center part has the less amount wich is against any phisic law!!!

would people do a test before speaking?

things start to behave normally only at maximum tire pressure and maximum camber.

on cars with wider tires this abnormal situation is much less evident.

i think that slick tires are simulated quite well (i guess it's because of bf1) but road tires are unnatural! not to mention that the longitudinal grip is much much more than RL (while the lateral grip is too low imho).

i understand people are happy because formula car are now easy to drive, but if someone take the time to test the xfg, would see it too.

PS again some posts above there are some RL screenshots of cars racing that shows how much tire deforms, if you don't believe me that watch those screenshots to face the reality: the tire deformation IS wrong!

First the images (Google'd):

Normal road cars (huge deformation)
http://toyotaownersclub.com/fo ... ion/index.php/t47764.html
MRT type car (no deformation)
http://sae.secsme.org.au/home.htm
http://fsae.utoronto.ca/2002/videopr.html
Rally cars (some deformation)
http://www.2.justbajan.com/car ... 2004/042804_mcbiral/2.htm
http://www.2.justbajan.com/car ... 2004/042804_mcbiral/4.htm
F1 (slow corner @ Sepang, no deformation)
http://img39.photobucket.com/a ... g/malaysia_1st_corner.jpg
Some more F1 (little deformation)
http://autosport.sbs.nl/module ... on=gallery&image=2526
http://autosport.sbs.nl/module ... on=gallery&image=2484
http://autosport.sbs.nl/module ... on=gallery&image=2536

This should be enough. Note that F1 tyres are very flexy and balloonish and are an integral part of the suspension.

All in all I would say, to many variables at play here to say LFS is right or wrong. And frankly I don't look at my tyres touching the road when driving. I only want a good road feel when I am driving.:eclipsee_

Quote from ElfjeTwaalfje :

First the images (Google'd):

Normal road cars (huge deformation)
http://toyotaownersclub.com/fo ... ion/index.php/t47764.html
MRT type car (no deformation)
http://sae.secsme.org.au/home.htm
http://fsae.utoronto.ca/2002/videopr.html
Rally cars (some deformation)
http://www.2.justbajan.com/car ... 2004/042804_mcbiral/2.htm
http://www.2.justbajan.com/car ... 2004/042804_mcbiral/4.htm
F1 (slow corner @ Sepang, no deformation)
http://img39.photobucket.com/a ... g/malaysia_1st_corner.jpg
Some more F1 (little deformation)
http://autosport.sbs.nl/module ... on=gallery&image=2526
http://autosport.sbs.nl/module ... on=gallery&image=2484
http://autosport.sbs.nl/module ... on=gallery&image=2536

This should be enough. Note that F1 tyres are very flexy and balloonish and are an integral part of the suspension.

All in all I would say, to many variables at play here to say LFS is right or wrong. And frankly I don't look at my tyres touching the road when driving. I only want a good road feel when I am driving.:eclipsee_

so "except" the first 2 screenshots you are cleary saying that lfs deformation is way too exaggerated...

also in the first 2 screenshots, tires are smaller than xfg and still they deform way much less than lfs -> the xfg at slow speed deform much more than the extreme situation of the citroen in the screenshot.

what everyone do not want to hear is teh artifacts:
1 - lfs tires do not deform by "displacement", but they "stretch" reducing the contact surface...that's impossible! on the contrary in real life in very infinitesimal amount the tire surface tend to "enlarge"

2 - in lfs tires the central part seems to have some sort of vacuum having the less pressure, meaning that the center part of the tire lift from road having some misterious force that attracts toward the rims...obviously this is absurd

3 - lfs deformation (eg xfg) at slow speeds (like driving in real life into traffic) is much more than the most extreme situation in the real life (eg the citroen in the previous post)...i don't know you, but when i drive at 50kmh into traffic i don't see any deformation at all...

i stop talking other things, because if you people cannot see those 3 evident absurd things, you are clearly blinded by the pleasure of handling formula cars and gtr like if they was 900cc/50bhp cars...

Quote from Honey :

2 - in lfs tires the central part seems to have some sort of vacuum having the less pressure, meaning that the center part of the tire lift from road having some misterious force that attracts toward the rims...obviously this is absurd

What's this?

Quote from Honey :

3 - lfs deformation (eg xfg) at slow speeds (like driving in real life into traffic) is much more than the most extreme situation in the real life (eg the citroen in the previous post)...i don't know you, but when i drive at 50kmh into traffic i don't see any deformation at all...

You hang out of your car looking at the tyres, while cornering at the limit of grip, at around 1g? You are very brave! But that may be a bit dangerous.

Quote from Scawen :

What's this?

You hang out of your car looking at the tyres, while cornering at the limit of grip, at around 1g? You are very brave! But that may be a bit dangerous.

the first point is: with F9 info even at slow speeds (50kmh eg) the center pressure is the less, while the gradient should not change sign, wich means that if at the outer side there is the maximum pressure, in the center it should be between the outer and the inners pressure...how it is now, it means that the central part of tire is "lifting from tarmac" and the tire is bending inside toward the rim (only the central part)

the second point i mean: at 50kmh into traffic tires "are not deforming", while in lfs they are much

just to be clear i dont want to say this patch is ugly, ideed at most is a huge improvement, but to me: tire deformation on road tires and pressure/grip relationship are a bit too wrong and may feel thing lot bad, i hope that after the "bf1 fever" more people speking english better than me, can do the same tests and give more feedback.

edit: PS scawen from your reply you clearly didn't read what i wrote, reading again i think i explained clearly what i meant, but i could be wrong obviously

Quote from Honey :

2 - in lfs tires the central part seems to have some sort of vacuum having the less pressure, meaning that the center part of the tire lift from road having some misterious force that attracts toward the rims...obviously this is absurd

In driving school I was told that this is the reason why you shouldn't use too low pressures on your tyres. The outer sides will get used up too fast because the inner part slightly lifts from the tarmac.
So you're driving under-pressured tyres and that is propably the reason why you also see big tyre deformation.

Vain

Quote from Vain :

In driving school I was told that this is the reason why you shouldn't use too low pressures on your tyres. The outer sides will get used up too fast because the inner part slightly lifts from the tarmac.
So you're driving under-pressured tyres and that is propably the reason why you also see big tyre deformation.

Vain

that's because with low pressure, the tire "displace" a lot having to drive only on outer edge...since you "averagly" turn 50% left and 50% right you consume only the both edge of a tire and not the center.

and with low pressure "the center tend to lift" but "the inner part tend more" and that's natural, what it's absurd is center "lifting" more than "inner"

PS i did a lot of semplifications in terms hoping to be more clear, i hope you get it right

EDIT: about low pressure: as i did before i did tests very different settings and at 2.2 bar (the max recommended for an xfg like car) this is still ugly, only at max lfs tire pressure and maximum negative camber things START to be normal

If you are using old setup tyre pressures with the new patch physics then I think you will get anomalous readings. With the new 'grip' factor I think you will find that the setups will adjust to a more realistic setting with stiffer suspension, higher tyre pressures and less camber. This will lesson the immeadiate effect of how you see tyre deformation now. Of course a low pressure tyre will defrom to large degrees, it's got nothing to hold it up.

I think a discussion of this nature needs a few more weeks of 'gametime' maturity before exhaustive critism can take place effectivly.

Quote from Funnybear :

If you are using old setup tyre pressures with the new patch physics then I think you will get anomalous readings. With the new 'grip' factor I think you will find that the setups will adjust to a more realistic setting with stiffer suspension, higher tyre pressures and less camber. This will lesson the immeadiate effect of how you see tyre deformation now. Of course a low pressure tyre will defrom to large degrees, it's got nothing to hold it up.

I think a discussion of this nature needs a few more weeks of 'gametime' maturity before exhaustive critism can take place effectivly.

if you read my posts or even just one of them you will see that i already doen the tests you suggest, how funny that everyone's says i'm wrong but nobody dare to take some test and discuss about the results, moreover none seems to take care of the real screenshots posted above, all real picture show evidently even at the most first view, how the lfs deformation is wrong -> causing huge phisic unrealism.

Quote from Honey :

nobody dare to take some test and discuss about the results

Did. Found nothing funny

Quote from varjsa-9 :

Did. Found nothing funny

In LFS or with real car?

Quote from Honey :

if you read my posts or even just one of them you will see that i already doen the tests you suggest, how funny that everyone's says i'm wrong but nobody dare to take some test and discuss about the results, moreover none seems to take care of the real screenshots posted above, all real picture show evidently even at the most first view, how the lfs deformation is wrong -> causing huge phisic unrealism.

The thing is, all these pretty pictures do not tell you how much air pressure the tires have, how fast the car is going, how many G's it is pulling, and etc. There just isn't enough information in them to say one way or the other.

Honey, the phenomenon you describe about the middle part of the tire is attainable even in a straight line on a real car - with too low a tire pressure. I don't know if it happens for the same reason during cornering, but that shows that it's not physically impossible for your "vacuum" (although it's not) effect to occur IRL.

Casual drag racers often lay a patch just for the purpose of observing the said patch, looking for the phenomenon you desribe, or the reverse (for over inflated tires). I don't know if LFS models (nonexistant) centrifugal force on the tires, I thought in a thread somewhere that it did, but I was informed that it does not. That may account for something.

We also do not know if the visual representation in LFS is precisely what the physics model is generating... What I mean is that the graphics engine may or may not relate to the physics with 100% accuracy. In terms of the "amount" of deformation, I realise it has too, but I mean in terms of the structure of the tire.

Pictures from RL don't show much for either side without the appropriate information unfortunately, and we can find pictures that seem to prove either side but they prove nothing really.

And honey, driving at 50km/h is not relevant. You can still generate massive forces at 50k, 100k, whatever. I'm tempted to mount a camera on my car and find an empty parking lot hehe

Quote from Breizh :

Anyone remember that red Porsche slomo vid, riding a curb?
I have it, if anyone can host it. It's 35 megs.

http://www.rapidshare.de

http://www.sendspace.com/

I can't use RS

Quote from Scawen :

What's this?

You hang out of your car looking at the tyres, while cornering at the limit of grip, at around 1g? You are very brave! But that may be a bit dangerous.

lmao at the second part ^_^

hehe that was funny

Here's the Porsche clip: http://rapidshare.de/files/18017543/tyre.avi.html (didn't upload this again, just had the link on my memo.txt )

And some "comparison"... don't know what pressures the BF1 had because it was a wr hotlap from lfsworld.net. Though the rims were still "misplaced", they just don't show up in the screens.

Quote :

Honey, the phenomenon you describe about the middle part of the tire is attainable even in a straight line on a real car - with too low a tire pressure.

The point is that it happens even at 2.2 bar which according to Honey (I don't know, don't blaim me if it's not right ) is the max recommended pressure for that type of car & tires.

It does happen at 2.2 bar, I know because I tried it in LFS. I went all the way to 2.8 bar when it stopped happening but the result was that even with optimal temps and -2.5 camber for the fronts and -4.1 for the rears in every single corner at Blackwood GP, and even if just gently swinging left and right on a straight the slope of the live camber inverted and a huge amount of understeer one doesn't get with lower pressures.

I don't know enough about tires to draw realistic conclusions, but what I do know after trying out with road_normals and slick2s is that there is no advantage to running with higher (realistic?) pressures, in fact I still did significantly better with low pressures one would have used in the P/Q patch.

Oh and found an interesting link
http://www.toyo.com.au/Pit%20Lane.htm