Hey guys, new to the game

Anyways I don't know if it's a setting or something but I noticed when racing the AI... they do not see you, period. It seems that no matter where you are on the track they will just crash into you if you are in their way. Anyone else notice this?

Welcome!

The AI's do not see you very well, and they can be diffucult to race with. Hopefully things will get sorted out eventually.

just pretend they are all old people.

Quote from Roadie :

just pretend they are all old people.

Yupp, old people wearing hats!

Now there is the theory of mine, concerning the connection between wearing hats and being a bad driver:

Usually, you wear a hat when you get outside, to protect yourself from weather. But when you are at home, you will not usually wear a hat. Therefor we can assume hat a driver who wears a hat in a car does not feel "at home" inside the car. Now we can safely say, that if you do not feel "at home" in your car, you will most certainly feel uncomfortable. So, if you do not feel cmfortable in your car, you can not be, under any circumsatnces, be a good driver.

tank you for your attention

good bye

Quote from shoman24v :

Hey guys, new to the game

Anyways I don't know if it's a setting or something but I noticed when racing the AI... they do not see you, period. It seems that no matter where you are on the track they will just crash into you if you are in their way. Anyone else notice this?

The AI needs to be trained up to be good. The key is to put different AI in different cars and then set random grid order and leave them to do a 10-20 lap race. Once the race has finished restart it.

They need a good 70+ laps to work things out but the different cars mean they learn to overtake properly etc

Quote from Woz :

The AI needs to be trained up to be good. The key is to put different AI in different cars and then set random grid order and leave them to do a 10-20 lap race. Once the race has finished restart it.

They need a good 70+ laps to work things out but the different cars mean they learn to overtake properly etc

Yeah but is that going to fix them from not seeing you?

Well, they will learn where they have the space to actually evade you after some time. You have to imagine that the racetrack for the AI is just the ideal line. Due to experience of what worked and what didn't work, they will adjust their driving, like going a bit faster through that corner next time, but also learning that the track is wide enough on section x to overtake.

The AI can indeed see you. When you move near them they try to block you. At first their attempts are clumsy and they just seem to be ramming you. Once they get used to trading paint they become more mindful of your presence. Still this is an alpha release so we will have to wait and see what improvements time brings.

IMHO, no matter how much you train the a.i. they still barge you off the track, drive up your rear end and race as if you weren't there. If you compare ai behaviour to other commercial racing games, the ai will actually drive a lot more defensively and will not deliberately drive round as if your car was invisible. This is regardless of how many long nights you leave them racing round on their own.

I hope the devs are working on this for S2beta, as it does detract considerably from off-line play; that and the fact that once you learn the track and get past them they are really not seriously competitive at all, just a nuisance.

there's one thing i'd like to see the AI do (apart from pitting hat is)
and that is racing against each other. they do not race each other, they just drive around. almost no overtaking or position changes after the first lap and i never witnessed any changes after lap 2 if you run equally trained AI drivers in single car classes

there is no randomness factor and they seem to drive at 100% every time - papy used to have values from x%-x% to define how good a driver or car is - and some races or even some laps he was racing near the upper limit and then again near the lower limit

i know LfS is an 'online racing simulator' and the offline part isn't the main feature of the game, but then again, there are tons of peple (especially in this or former in the RSC forums) that tell inexperienced drivers to 'go and practice offline' instead of 'disturbing their races online'

this way, the beginners that get scared away by these arrogant 'superdrivers' would at least have a little fun with LfS while they get better and wouldn't be scared off the game completely, because they could enjoy real races and even some self designed leagues and also would learn to overtake cars batteling each other and not only driving one after another - which would be much closer to what will happen on the servers if they finally make it back online

Yep, good point. Once GPL was split open, there were a number of factors that influenced the ai performance, and EA's F1 series was the same, with parameters for agression, skill, ability to recover, chance-taking, flat out straight speed and cornering speed, moving off the racing line to try and overtake, etc. etc. etc, that enabled you to either get the ai to learn to race to your level, using your pb as a standard to set their own performace to, or allow ai to be edited to give you the sort of race you wanted. Original gpl (and EA's F1) soon had all the cars well spaced after 3 laps, this ai tweaking allowed you to bring them all close together again for some really good races against apparently intelligent opposition.

Quote from al heeley :

Yep, good point. Once GPL was split open, there were a number of factors that influenced the ai performance, and EA's F1 series was the same, with parameters for agression, skill, ability to recover, chance-taking, flat out straight speed and cornering speed, moving off the racing line to try and overtake, etc. etc. etc, that enabled you to either get the ai to learn to race to your level, using your pb as a standard to set their own performace to, or allow ai to be edited to give you the sort of race you wanted. Original gpl (and EA's F1) soon had all the cars well spaced after 3 laps, this ai tweaking allowed you to bring them all close together again for some really good races against apparently intelligent opposition.

hehe yup would be great to have these options as well, but you'Re 3 or 4 steps further than me. i'd be pleased with a little more randomness of the drivers which wouldn't make them act as stupid bots and run at the same pace and same line all the race, peacefully one after the other...

to correct this, the possibility to edit them wouldn'T even be needed (although i agree it would be great to have that option) - i'm asking for/suggesting much less - every little step in this direction is a change for the better and i wouln't mind the devs taking one after another (but certainly wouldn't mind them going all the way also )

Quote from al heeley :

IMHO, no matter how much you train the a.i. they still barge you off the track, drive up your rear end and race as if you weren't there. If you compare ai behaviour to other commercial racing games, the ai will actually drive a lot more defensively and will not deliberately drive round as if your car was invisible. This is regardless of how many long nights you leave them racing round on their own.

I hope the devs are working on this for S2beta, as it does detract considerably from off-line play; that and the fact that once you learn the track and get past them they are really not seriously competitive at all, just a nuisance.

Werd. If i'm in the middle of the pack and can't take of as quick as the AI they will just ram you.

Try to make a pass, they will just cut you off. I tend to play a little more offline (for now) and it really sucks to know the AI is just following a line rather then racing.

As much as I want to play with AI, I really can't.

As a keen racing gamer I agree to these suggestions.Lets be fair, the most of us don’t have time to play online, and many servers just have many players just wanting to ram others or make the best donuts.

I think the Single Player game option has to be overworked and the AI
programming set as top priority.

Good driving

Tarkaman
Germany

I agree, I play 90% offline and so need the AI to be improved.

The AI can see you? Sure seems like the AI is on a rail heading around the track - get in the way of the train and you get hit. And if you can 'train' them, I laugh at the idea, then how do you make them quick learners because I don't feel like watching them race 70 laps before I can play a game.

IMO the AI eat up a %$&^load of fps whereas RF MP Test's AI didn't take up as much. Even with 19 other cars RF MPT had very little effect (2-3 fps). However 11 AIs+me, and they eat up 7-12 fps!

I think ISI got something right when the AI eat up so little of your FPS.

Quote from Lnin0 :

And if you can 'train' them, I laugh at the idea, then how do you make them quick learners because I don't feel like watching them race 70 laps before I can play a game.

Give them a decent setup, max out the fuel, put them in a race with as many laps as the fuel lasts for, minimize LFS and go to bed. The more they have to overtake each other, the more they learn, so having a full pack with the slowest AIs in front usually helps them develop their overtaking and collision avoiding. But the main thing is to give them a good setup because the random generated ones they get otherwise suck terribly and they never manage a decent lap.

Just something for you guys to know if you dont already... havent seen it mentioned in this thread so thought it would be worth mentioning

The AI will only retain what they learn in practise mode.. i.e. you must set the race to practise mode then the AI will learn and retain their learning.. if you just race them in races when you close LFS they will revert back to their previous state..

The reason they did it this way was so that you could keep the AI at a level siutable to your own, having said that they still dont learn to a higher enough level for my liking but they do improve a fair bit.. and i have seen some quite good races with them having battles at one stage back in S1 when myself and a few other team mates where too tired to race ourselves we would race our AI's against each others AI's :P was quite entertaining at times LOL we would each enter 2 or 3 AI's in a race then on Team Speak we would have a running commentary between each other and bets on who's AI would win, it was a blast actually.. but we had them trained up with over 300 laps in practise mode

The best way to train them is to put a full field in but with 2 or 3 of the cars with a passenger or two to make them a bit slower.. then the AI will learn to negotiate traffic better. The more laps you give them the better they become up untill about 60 laps then they level off, I think they still improve after that point but at a much slower pace. Unfortunately you also have to train the AI for each track and car combination you want them to use.

And for those that find the AI no longer a challenge you could always handicap yourself ie add a passenger or full tank of fuel when they are running light depending on how much faster you are than the AI..
What I would love to see in S3 is the AI learn from observing your race line or someone elses (ie WR replay ) Now that would be cool..

They must always be looking in the rear-view mirror. So you can train the the AI that they can't drive through you? That something even a beginner AI should know. This sim is taking a back burner to the GP Legends demo until the AI is fixed. Even the 5 year old NFS Porsche Unleashed I play has AI that actually have the ability to avoid you. What a dissapointment. I love everything else about the sim.

Quote from shoman24v :

Werd. If i'm in the middle of the pack and can't take of as quick as the AI they will just ram you.

Try to make a pass, they will just cut you off. I tend to play a little more offline (for now) and it really sucks to know the AI is just following a line rather then racing.

As much as I want to play with AI, I really can't.

if i train my ai drivers alot, they end up going much faster.. but they destroy their tires after only 2 laps and then spin out.

Guy's, it doesn't matter if you train them or not, they should automatically know your position on the track, I mean they know the other AI's exist and they don't ram them.

Quote from shoman24v :

I mean they know the other AI's exist and they don't ram them.

Lol, that's only luck. Many a time I've seen the AIs wipe one another out.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Lol, that's only luck. Many a time I've seen the AIs wipe one another out.

Take a look at this thread on the old RSC forum for more info on Single Player and AI (pimps own posts!! )