Well, I've been "playing" this for a few weeks now, and I've noticed something about the set-ups used by the top tier drivers, they all seem very "loose" to me. When I try and use their set-ups, I have a very difficult time keeping the rear-end in check. I've been working on getting a good time on BL GP with the FBM, and as of yet I'm still 5sec out from the top time. Is there something inherent in having a car so prone to oversteer that is fundamental to better lap times? Thanks in advance for info/advice/revelations/epiphanies and other life/race changing input. Mojimo

i guess having a loose car u mean they are prone to oversteer. i guess the concept is that having excess oversteer helps them get around a corner easier though they are able to control this oversteer, also another thing to note they run pretty high downforce on their setups too.
Though the most important thing is that the setup is comfortable for them to use, if u want achieve the best time possible for you, you have to use a setup that is most comfortable for you and slowly work on it. There is a guide of setups though i forgot the link

Quote from Mojimo :

Well, I've been "playing" this for a few weeks now, and I've noticed something about the set-ups used by the top tier drivers, they all seem very "loose" to me. When I try and use their set-ups, I have a very difficult time keeping the rear-end in check. I've been working on getting a good time on BL GP with the FBM, and as of yet I'm still 5sec out from the top time. Is there something inherent in having a car so prone to oversteer that is fundamental to better lap times? Thanks in advance for info/advice/revelations/epiphanies and other life/race changing input. Mojimo

In short, yes. A setup that oversteers can, in certain circumstances, be faster than one that understeers. Oversteer can be corrected by countersteering but understeer is usually corrected by going slower.

Specifically, an oversteer-prone setup works well for the FBM because, amongst other factors, its engine is not very strong. In most cases, the low torque means that the rear tires will be able to provide more grip than the front tires before slipping. When this happens, one generally needs to release the throttle to regain front grip which means that the overall speed will be lower. On the other hand, a car with less rear grip or more front grip will possibly be able to take the corner at a faster pace because it will be able to hold the line without risk of understeer.

In theory the fastest setup comes from maximising tyre grip, which comes having a neutral setup. The trouble with a neutral setup is that it takes only a small application of throttle (in a RWD vehicle) to turn neutral into power oversteer, especially with a heavily locked diff. So the setups might not be necessarily inherintely oversteery, but you just need to be much smoother and delicate with your throttle inputs to keep the car facing the way you expect.

It's not often I've tried a WR set, but on the few occasions I've tried other people's sets, they just seem to understeer all the time (compared to what I'm used to). I quite like to aim for critical oversteer in my sets, that's where you can power out of a corner with the steering straight, and still be turning enough, and just use a tiny flick of countersteer to straighten the car once the corner ends. So far I've only got there with an old XRG set of mine, which sadly only works as intended for a very old version of LFS.

Thanks for the input so far everyone. Personally, I've found the default set-ups to be fairly neutral, having a good balance between under and oversteer. Of course, I'm probably not taking corners as fast as I possibly could be and would notice more understeer if I was. With the WR setups I've tried, I find that even when trying to be smooth and gradual on throttle application, I still lose the rear-end. I know it's a matter of finding the right feel for me, so I'll keep monkeying around with things. As for the running with a lot of downforce, won't that move towards killing speed you would have gained in the corners by reducing your potential terminal velocity?

Downforce is all about balance. Too much and you get the problem you described. Too little and you won't enter straights fast enough for the lessened air drag to make up the lost time.

Also, it is mostly experience about the setups. All the default sets understeer like pigs, IMO.

I'm picturing an actual pig not being able to turn because his front legs keep sliding, it's making me laugh. Who doesn't appreciate a laugh first thing in the morning? Bob, do you have set up for the fbm you would let me experience?

Its afternoon here, but anyways. You can find some good sets in bobs signature.
If you want more advanced (and twitchy setups), google for setupfield or setupgrid

I haven't got an up-to-date race setup pack for LFS, so you won't find an FBM race set from me in my sig. I might have a dig around tonight and see if I've got what feels like a decent handling one hanging around somewhere.

Quote from GabbO :

Its afternoon here, but anyways. You can find some good sets in bobs signature.
If you want more advanced (and twitchy setups), google for setupfield or setupgrid

Yeah...okay, I was talking about me, having a laugh, in what was the morning, for me, so, yeah... Thanks for the update, I never realized that there were different time zones. I'll check the setupfield and setupgrid, thanks for the info

Quote from Bob Smith :

I quite like to aim for critical oversteer in my sets, that's where you can power out of a corner with the steering straight, and still be turning enough, and just use a tiny flick of countersteer to straighten the car once the corner ends.

When I was on demo I had a set like that for the XRT. (old demo)

I would powerslide out of a corner with the wheel centered, and sometimes I didn't even need to counter at all. Unfortunately I lost all my old setups when I formated my computer, and when I moved to S2 I didn't realy think about the XRT any more.

I'm an LX4 junkie and I've been working on a set for it to get that kind of behaviour, for some reason I just can't seem to get it to kick out mid corner though.

As for WR settups, I find alot of them seem to handel realy oddly, and I woulden't use them as a basis for race setups. The settings for those are not for repeatability, they are made for a one off lap time and that is all.

I can't keep the LX 4 straight out of a corner to save my life. I'm thinking if I can get to where I can keep that car in check around a course, I'm probably moving in the right direction.

The default setups for the LX4 arn't very good, they aren't leveled properly and the ride hight is too low on one end. The dampers and springs are a bit off as well.

For cars without downforce you want to get the lower suspension arm as level to the ground as possible, this will give you the highest mechanical grip. On cars with downforce you want the suspension to be as level to the ground as possible durring full downforce.

Don't forget to have the driver and fuel in when you do this, sitting slightly higher than level as fuel burns is better than slightly lower to start.

The attached setup is the one I use as a base set for all of my LX4 setups, this one works realy well on all tracks, but isn't optimized for one in particular. That you will have to do on your own since I haven't finnished any track specific sets for this car yet.

Thanks DC, I'll give it a go, and thanks for the suspension geometry guidance. I'm just wishing I would've taken another physics class or two.