Hi all. To perhaps put my conscious more at rest, I wanted to know whats the general opinion on this.

Basically, whats wrong with the idea of downloading series? I know legally its a big no no but from the logical side, it doesn't seem to be wrong.

Let me explain why. So, you're watching a TV series (Lost, Heroes, Smallville, etc.) on TV. The series finishes but you want to watch it again so you download it. Some people would view this as simply wrong, others, like myself would be kind of in the grey area and others simply wouldn't care if it came on TV or not.

Anyway, my logic (which I learnt from someone) is that if it came on TV, if the potential to record it was there, then how would that stand legally? Think of it like the Sky+ box, as they advertised, you can record a whole series so why is there a legal problem in downloading a series?

If you already pay for a TV license, you're paying to watch anything broadcasted on the channels you receive. You are perfectly allowed to plug a DVD-R into your set-top box, and record anything for later viewing. I'm not with Sky, so I can't get Sky+. And I refuse to pay our crowd another ~€70 for a second set-top box and receiver, to feed into our DVD-R.

I see no problem with downloading series' in that case. From a legal point of view, you are downloading copyrighted material, and your TV license doesn't cover it. Morally though, it's fine to me

The argument then is, movies are shown on TV. If I missed them when they were broadcasted, why can't I download them? Same with music channels. If I missed a song I like, why can't I download it?

Morally it's down the indicidual. Legally it's down to the laws of your area and the ferverenece of the anti-piracy outfits.

Personally, I don't give a toss. I buy what I buy and download what I download.

Quote from MAGGOT :

I buy what I buy and download what I download.

Same.
Before I bought GTA IV, I first, uhm, tested it
Before I deleted NFS UC, I did same thing

Well since mum decided to get rid of the Digital TV box, the only way for me to watch lost is to download it, plus it gets rid of the annoying adverts >_<

I've also been downloading Heroes recently, another great series to watch

Been downloading Lost since the first season, not gonna stop now, I'll end up buying the box sets in a year or 2 anyway.

For me its okay to download TV series, espcially if those are older and no longer broadcasted. Atm I'm running a Star Trek DS9 torrent, just one episode a day, sort of a TV replacement as I have none in my dorm (but we pay for Digital TV at home, and i pay GEZ (german public media tax)).

I just hope that the piratebay servers keep running a bit cause they host that tracker.

Oh and yes, I think downloading things that were shown on your local channels is 100% legal, as you can say it's TS-Rip.

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I buy what I buy and download what I download.

I'm with the wise one here.

There is no moral issue with personal piracy.

There is a moral issue with scare tactics and gross inflation of hysterical claims of funding gun weilding drug barons (seriously, the drugs pay handsomly enough anyway) and the like.

My morals don't exactly match up with the law, but then again, my morals are based on the fact that the law is simply written by the criminals with the most people to enforce them. I dont see a difference between government and organised crime, it's simple a matter of who is currently in control.

On that basis the decision you make to break a law is a personal one, it's between your own ethical standpoint and the greed of those who are telling you how to live. Get caught breaking a law and their goons come around and drag you away, but that's no different to what happens when you blow the head off the local mafia bosses kids.

It's all the same.

Do what you want and feel is right, and live comfortably with yourself.

Actually, I've never really thought about it like this before. It would seem rather illogical to claim downloading a programme that is "freely" available to be recorded when broadcast illegal. Assuming you've paid your TV licence, (if such a thing exists where you live), and you still adhere to the "copyright" principles that apply to recording TV broadcasts, i.e. For personal use only and not for distribution or being viewed by anyone but the person that recorded it. Though how they would prove that I don't know.

Yes, we do have TV licences in Ireland. We've come a long way from our potato growing days .

Well, the reason why I opened up this discussion is because my brother downloads a bunch of classic F1 races. Supposedly morally, there should be absolutely nothing wrong with doing so because the races aren't readily available to buy in the shops, only the season review but still, apparently, the FOM (legal controllers of F1) had a problem with these races being freely distributed and warned the administrators of the website hosting these races by the public which is frankly, totally idiotic.

So, in that legal issue, I view it as cheek really. With series, I'm in a moral dilemma because these series are in fact released in box sets in their entirety so one could say, if you want to watch it again, buy the box set but that still doesn't deny the fact that you still have the potential to record a series directly so, I'm not really sure on how to look at it. Being before that I've always downloaded games/movies before, I'll probably side with the second option.

Game demos always suck so I do readily support downloading a game, play it. If I like it, buy it, if not, delete

Quote from Leprekaun :

Well, the reason why I opened up this discussion is because my brother downloads a bunch of classic F1 races. Supposedly morally, there should be absolutely nothing wrong with doing so because the races aren't readily available to buy in the shops, only the season review but still

I think full races are a bit like bootleg recordings in music. Both are stuff that is simply unavailable legally. No way to buy full races from past, so no moral hangover?

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apparently, the FOM (legal controllers of F1) had a problem with these races being freely distributed and warned the administrators of the website hosting these races by the public which is frankly, totally idiotic.

Of course, when sending Cease & Desist letters, they probably do not care if the material is full races from 1980s or 1 minute clip from 2009.

Actually, iirc FOM has no rights to pre-1981 stuff (something to do with Concorde Agreements back then). That's why the official season reviews go only back to 1981. But other publishers such as Duke Videos have done reviews from earlier years.

_

I pay for a TV license, I subscribe to Sky, and therefore I have absolutely NO guilt complex concerning downloading TV Series that I can otherwise watch properly...So far I have ALL the Heroes episodes, ALL the Sarah Conner Chronicles, ALL the Doctor Who and Torchwood episodes, and ALL of the Robin Hood episodes as well. It isnt MY fault that they show them while I have to work, and I CBA to read the manual to operate the DVD recorder.
An advantage to this is that I can watch the 'American' shows a few weeks (or sometimes MONTHS!) before they are screened over here!

Quote from Leprekaun :

Yes, we do have TV licences in Ireland. We've come a long way from our potato growing days .

LOL .. umm I was talking generally when I said that. Didn't mean to imply Ireland was behind the times in any way

Quote from Bladerunner :

An advantage to this is that I can watch the 'American' shows a few weeks (or sometimes MONTHS!) before they are screened over here!

The fact of the matter is that if you wait for the UK airing of most decent TV series, then you will no doubt have the episodes spoiled either by encountering discussion/reviews on the internet, or even by the previews in our crappy UK press (Big thing in newest 24 was Tony coming back from the dead, he was pictured in the cast shot in a newspaper after ep1 aired in the US, but still a week before it aired in the UK).

As a struggling musician, I have a strong opinion about music piracy. I obviously want people to buy my music, so I really object to people giving it away for free.
Of course, as a poor consumer I also like to get as much stuff for free as I can, which includes music. I like to think that because I create songs myself, I'm sort of addressing the balance that I'd upset if I was to ever download music illegally.

I can't see any way of stopping it though. File sizes and connection speeds mean that it's easier than ever to get what you want for free. You don't need to leave the house and you can be down in 30 seconds. At least you had the trouble of going to a market to collect a physical product in the past.

Musicians are already moving on. We know you can't fight it so we're selling the only things we have left - merchandise and stage shows. That's why folk like Madonna and Michael Jackson are pushing live dates like never before. That's the only way they have to guarantee an income. You can duplicate a record, but each live show is slightly different and you don't get the same atmosphere on a recording that you get when you actually attend.
And official t-shirts and mugs and all that stuff remind the people who were there of how they felt at the time.

Movies I can't really comment on, but if they've been on a public broadcast then I don't see how you can complain that somebody has watched it. If you pay the relevant fees (TV license, channel subscription) anyway then surely you've paid for it several times over. So yes, in that case I'd say downloads shouldn't be a problem. Same goes for TV shows.
On a related matter, I'm assuming that the reason big movie names are now appearing in TV series is because they can make more reliable income from those sources, like the musician lice shows.

Games are the stickiest issue of the lot. I know a lot of people download games to system test them. If a company doesn't release a demo, then sure I say go for it. Box system specs are pretty useless when it comes to an actual "will my system run this" thing. Like Dawn of War 2, for example. My PC is below the minimum system on the box, but the multiplayer beta ran fine. It has a demo now, but I know that the same will happen on plenty of games which DON'T release a demo.
Developers don't have any way of making money other than the game's release so piracy here is actually robbing someone of their livelyhood. By all means, pirate to test but if you like it then you should buy it.

May I rant here? Good: I pay 20€/ month for a CRAP tv-channel bundle, in which most of the channels offer practically nothing to watch. It's just something you have to do to be able to get F1 here... And then, when MTV3 finally decide to buy 3 years old Top Gear episodes which they air on their pay channel, they also publish those episodes free on the internet about 2 hours after they've been aired.

HOW ****ing fair is that? The tv companys here screw the customers so badly I fail to see anything wrong with downloading tv-series. IF they offered any value for your money I'd understand the copyright claims but currently, download all you want and it won't be morally wrong.

I've been wondering a similar thing with Top Gear episodes.. I have a... rather vast collection of them on my MP3 player, all of which I have obtained in a dodgy fashion

The thing is, I would pay to download them if they were available in an MP3 player friendly format (don't say iTunes... iTunes + MP3 player = epic fail). And also, I don't see the problem with what I'm doing, because 1) I'm not distributing them to anyone else 2) I'm not making money from them and 3) I'm merely downloading them to watch when I'm bored.

And I've heard things about customs checking MP3 players and iPods for illegally downloaded stuff. Is this actually happening?
(Although even if it is I can edit the menu on my MP3 player to hide the videos section )

Quote from hyntty :

May I rant here? Good: I pay 20€/ month for a CRAP tv-channel bundle, in which most of the channels offer practically nothing to watch. It's just something you have to do to be able to get F1 here... And then, when MTV3 finally decide to buy 3 years old Top Gear episodes which they air on their pay channel, they also publish those episodes free on the internet about 2 hours after they've been aired.

HOW ****ing fair is that? The tv companys here screw the customers so badly I fail to see anything wrong with downloading tv-series. IF they offered any value for your money I'd understand the copyright claims but currently, download all you want and it won't be morally wrong.

MTV3 hit the soft spot with F1. I really can't see many people getting their shitty pay-tv package if it wasn't for F1.

If the way I'm supposed to 'pay' for shows is sticking by the telly on the ad breaks and digesting random TV commercials, then I happen to think that I've already seen a lifetimes worth of commercials already, and a few more aren't going to have any effect on me. It's a massive jumble of nonsense in there, there's no way I'm going to sort any of it out. I'm a lost cause. Pity me and my ad addled brain and let me watch the damn thing in peace for 'free'

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"Musicians are already moving on. We know you can't fight it so we're selling the only things we have left - merchandise and stage shows. That's why folk like Madonna and Michael Jackson are pushing live dates like never before. That's the only way they have to guarantee an income. You can duplicate a record, but each live show is slightly different and you don't get the same atmosphere on a recording that you get when you actually attend.
And official t-shirts and mugs and all that stuff remind the people who were there of how they felt at the time."

There has to be a better way to pay creative people for the work that they do. Who really wants the mug of the band they saw? That's just so materially gross.

You have a point about the TV Part, but mostly you download series as DVDs which is legally wrong.

Anyway, I dont see a point in paying for TV Series anyway. Paying for things makes always go the Piracy up. point.