Problem with G25 is gear delivered FFB which is great for first few months but then it starts to wear out a little and wheel becomes quite loud especially over curbs when gears rattle against eachother.
Problem with G25 is gear delivered FFB which is great for first few months but then it starts to wear out a little and wheel becomes quite loud especially over curbs when gears rattle against eachother.
Yeah, I do have high hopes for the GT3.
I don't know why I was using 95. I've always used lower. It has something to do with deleting my LFS folder by mistake on a system reinstall and having not raced in a while. Anyway, the minute I hit 60, I lost two seconds at FE2. Times are the same in iRacing unfortunately, but I'm not used to it yet. Does feel much better though. Hard to see traffic. Went up to 65 in iRacing.
Bob's calc says my setup should be at 25.3. I tried 30 in LFS. Yup. That seems about right. What it would look like in a real car. Would need a monitor matrix of no less that 2x3 to see what is actually going on though. Could never learn a track like that.
Thanks for reminding me to experiment with that.
Here's an observation that surprised me somewhat. With lower FOVs trailing throttle oversteer is a bit more willing, the car seems rotate more easily. On the other side, power on oversteer is feels slightly less willing. I can use more foot. Monkeying around on curbs is much easier.
I don't know why I was using 95. I've always used lower. It has something to do with deleting my LFS folder by mistake on a system reinstall and having not raced in a while. Anyway, the minute I hit 60, I lost two seconds at FE2. Times are the same in iRacing unfortunately, but I'm not used to it yet. Does feel much better though. Hard to see traffic. Went up to 65 in iRacing.
Bob's calc says my setup should be at 25.3. I tried 30 in LFS. Yup. That seems about right. What it would look like in a real car. Would need a monitor matrix of no less that 2x3 to see what is actually going on though. Could never learn a track like that.
Thanks for reminding me to experiment with that.
Here's an observation that surprised me somewhat. With lower FOVs trailing throttle oversteer is a bit more willing, the car seems rotate more easily. On the other side, power on oversteer is feels slightly less willing. I can use more foot. Monkeying around on curbs is much easier.
LOL
That'd be sweet setup heh,
Or you could just run a 42" TV at 1080HD
yeah I'm not sure why that exactly is but I find the same thing, I am able to be much more agressive and it feels more natural. I find it gives me a more accurate representation of the track to run lower FOVs. As for high ones... I think the false sensation of speed combined with less visual "resolution" of the track as it were makes it more difficult to be accurate and judge where you're really at and what the car is doing. Everything is too amplified to respond properly to at high FOVs. At least for me, I guess some guys run well with high ones. I know many WR hotlappers did them at around 40 or so however.
Yep the main issue with low FOVs anyway is during races when you have to use your look buttons a lot - I have raced a lot with FOV in the 60s but it's annoying and even dangerous having to look around so often. Now I'm back to a more comfortable 82 so I can see the left mirror in most cars.
scenery moves around more and also much more obviously at lower fovs when the tyres let go and the speed of rotation changes
Tried LFS with 60 fov on 40 inch LCD. Great stuff, but still.. 1920x1080 is not enought. At least double the resolution and the view would be almost like real life.
I think the best solution is 3head, but it demands much more power from your vga. A 42" flat screen maybe permits a higher fov. Does anyone could post a picture?
Now that is another surprising observation I had. My first thought was, "I'll never be able to race like this and be welcome back for a second round." Then I tried my look buttons and flew right off the track.
Then I went to a practice session at VIR and found that my situational awareness is much more acute. Even with out the look buttons I just *know* where everyone is. I know that sounds cavalier, but I was passed and did some passing and dicing and not a single bump. My traffic anticipation was highly accurate. (Am getting used to the look buttons too.)
Low fov is a disadvantage as looking to sides is more difficult. Freetrack may solve this, and it is a fraction of the cost of triplehead system. I have not managed to get the sensitivity settings quite right yet, so my driving is slower and more dangerous atm. I'm thinking of restricting it to yaw axis only with a large deadzone. Check it out, works with iRacing too.
iRacing side views are not so good as LFS, but now it has spotter that works fine.
I don't like to use TrackIR, and I do not know if I would get used to it someday if I insist.
I don't like to use TrackIR, and I do not know if I would get used to it someday if I insist.
Heh, I find the same thing. The thing is, between the mirror, and what you can actually see, it's pretty easy to instinctively know what's going on, at least I find. In a moment of real uncertainty, having the look button set up for instant look can make you 100% informed in a fraction of a second if need be. iRacing's spotter can help too. On the other hand, high FOV used to acutally make it more difficult sometimes because it was so distorted. With a low FOV, I can run real close to other cars without getting worried about it
I've been using TrackIR for years in flight sims. I couldn't race in LFS or iRacing without it.
The ability to have 40 - 50 FOV and be able to move your view just a little to the left and right I feel is a great advantage. Also, the ability to look into the apex and through the corner. Much more freedom than just a simple push button look left and right option.
I find the physics of LFS and iRacing to be very similar. I wish iRacing had the LFS clutch operation. I wish LFS had the centering quality of he steering especially the way the the steering wants to center itself the faster you go and the higher the resistance is at speed to turning the wheel compared to low speed.
I wish both LFS and iRacing had better net code however, what can you do when the data packets from us in Australia are arriving at the server almost a quarter of a second (250ms) after we have turned the wheel or hit the brakes. From what I have read on the iRacing forums, they are looking into using Arkami which would help heaps. This simply isn't an option for hosting LFS servers, unless something like CTRA did and charged a monthly subscription to pay for it. Which, by the way, I would sign up for if it did happen.
I very much like the license system in iRacing. Again, imagine the CTRA system but with automated wrecker punishment without having to file reports. It doesn't matter if you are fast around a track. If the only way you can pass someone is by bash passing, you'll be stuck at Rookie for ever in iRacing. It rewards clean racing. It very harshly punishes rough and overly aggesive racing.
iRacing is expensive. LFS is cheap. Too cheap if you ask me. It has grown so big now it's becomming to much work for one developer to fix bugs and add new content. And the more that gets added to LFS, the more bugs there will be to fix, and the slower the developement will happen until it stagnates. The LFS team really do need to start looking at adding more people or else it simply wont improve much more than it already is. Even if it means paying the cost of LFS as a yearly subscription. It would still be very cheap and the extra money could pay for heaps more development. Unlike iRacing, as it impoves, they'll get more subscribers and thus, more money to keep hiring more developers to improve it even more which will attract more subcribers...etc.
When CTRA closed down, there were many posts saying they would be happy to pay a subscription fee to keep it running. I would have been quite happy to pay a subscription fee to keep CTRA alive. I liked CTRA. I had a Gold license and the quality of racing in the restricted servers was excellent. The racing quality of iRacing is much the same once you are passed the Rookie stage.
Bottom line is, LFS is great for league racing. If you were a CTRA fan, iRacing has a lot to offer if you can afford it. You can't get online with a few mates and have some fun with iRacing. In fact, iRacing isn't fun at all. It's damn serious racing. Even your practise sessions are monitored and recorded for all to see. iRacing isn't for everyone. LFS can be enjoyed no matter what level of racer you are especially for the casual racer using just a keyboard. iRacing pretty much requires a minimum of a G25. A Momo just isn't up to it (I have both). iRacing requires dedication. iRacing requires lots and lots of practice. You wouldn't dare jump in a race on a track you are unfamiliar with in iRacing (unless you are The Stig) and risk the penalties to your license.
For me, I spent almost all my LFS time on CTRA servers. Now I spend my time (and money) on iRacing servers. I play with LFS. I race with iRacing.
I DISagree about its take a g25 minimum im racing with a DFP the old one... has 900 degrees but it turns slow. anyways i jsut got a promo about a week ago for iracing with the radical car included. It doesnt tkae much to go fast in iracing doesnt take tons of pratice actually i got faster quicker in iracing then lfs. for example laguna in the rookie soltice i hit a 148 my second night i never have driven on that track b4 and 148 in the rookie base set aint shabby...took me forever and a day to hit 133 in the xrg bl1 definitely not 2 nights. On LIme ROck Park my first night i hit a low 104. next day a 103.7 in the rookies solitce base set{i have never driven a lap on this track b4 or heard of it]. the radical car isnt hard to drive either it actually feels like gtr evo with more steering lock {to me}. Iracing is fun though but for me not worth the $ the quality of racing as a whole is better but then again your locked into their "system" not enough freedom for me and when i go back on the track at lfs im thinking wow 3 people made this and as far as how the cars feels i dont see much difference they are both good. Iracing still doesnt have a fully modeled clutch
if your a oval fan which im not iracing has little to offer me[my fav cars in lfs are RAC\LX's/XRR]there are no cars like that in iracing
But there are things i think lfs can use from iracing the spotter hell yeah the spotter is nice you can concentrate on driving instead of looking aournd to see if your clear nic option. A license system would be nice but as a alternate to pick up racing so you still ahve freedom. as a whole if i didnt have to pay monthly and pay for cars and tracks{is this really the future of sim racing paying 4 tracks?}. ohh my iracing name is Joseph C. Richardson.
PS wish i couldve watied to try the corvette that is coming out.
if your a oval fan which im not iracing has little to offer me[my fav cars in lfs are RAC\LX's/XRR]there are no cars like that in iracingBut there are things i think lfs can use from iracing the spotter hell yeah the spotter is nice you can concentrate on driving instead of looking aournd to see if your clear nic option. A license system would be nice but as a alternate to pick up racing so you still ahve freedom. as a whole if i didnt have to pay monthly and pay for cars and tracks{is this really the future of sim racing paying 4 tracks?}. ohh my iracing name is Joseph C. Richardson.
PS wish i couldve watied to try the corvette that is coming out.
Ford GT and Mustang have also been announced
That is quite nice and I never really understood the effect of caster until I felt this. Now I can go into LFS and make (semi)intelligent caster adjustments based solely on how the car is acting.
I haven't had problems with LFS netcode if it's low enough to keep cars from jumping. iRacing netcode blows. They claim to be working on it. Also, word on the forum is they dropped the Arkami idea.
The on track attitude is the finest attribute of iRacing IMO. Like DSR or CTRA or LOTA etc... Really extraordinary.
Think about it, seriously. S1 = 20 bucks. S2 = 20 bucks. For almost 7 years I've been having the time of my life for 40 bucks. I think on the average I have spent more than that per year on other 'sims' like Superbike, GP4, Nascar Racing, STCC, RBR... I don't play any of them save for GP4, and I only do rain races in that. (The lack of online makes it really not fun at all.) I would gladly pay Scawen, Victor, and Eric $20 a year for this product. Are you kidding me? It's nothing, not for anyone who can afford a computer that will run a sim, internet connection, and a wheel. It's not a lot to ask. Think about how much it costs the average Schmoe to go skiing 10 times a year. And LFS would stomp all over iRacing. And here's why:
This last week I failed to find a race with sufficient entry numbers in advanced Solstice. That means no points for that race in the series. The racing is scheduled by iRacing and sometimes, actually a lot of times, there simply is no one racing when I have the time to race. In the Mazda (think FOX, GREAT!) I just squeaked a points paying race in in the last few hours. I had just woken up and jumped in the race, without breakfast for fear that I would not have another chance.
I racing is balking on the idea of having leagues. They are afraid, and rightly so, that it will take too much traffic from the organized series. Making it even harder for the subscribership to get their full points potentials in the series'. They intend to limit league races to once a week and disallow points and rating increases in the main world for completing those league races. They fear that people will use all their racing time to practice for and race in the leagues. I will.
As it stands, you cannot race your friends, foes, or casual acquaintances in iRacing except for by chance. You can call your friend on the phone and say I am racing this car and track in 10 minutes and if the field is full you might be split into different races and there is nothing you can do about it.
As good as the iRacing series are, I'm afraid that 7 years of LFS has led me to believe that the drivers have as much imagination as the developers. And a lot more spare time in which to organize a HEEEUGE variety of fun races and series. I mean, endurance races with driver swaps? Come on... that kills!
I am going to pay iRacing for the CTRA atmosphere. Where I work towards a goal, I get better, I earn points, then find myself in higher class races. Sounds simple doesn't it? Not so much once you get in there and start to understand the failures of the system. I look forward to running the SR8 and Mazda next season. I'm guessing right now, having not yet seen the schedule for the season which is only 4 weeks or so away, that I will spend $200 for the tracks. If not, it will be close enough to make my point. I'm spending this money with no guarantee whatsoever that I will be able to fulfill my race obligations to the point that I can look at the standings and say, "Yes. This is where I stand in this group of drivers." I may sit on the other side of the season and wonder if I could have gotten the 32 points needed to one up Scott Green had I been able to race just one more race.
All of this considered: The attitude in LFS is tangibly more lighthearted. Just as serious about racing. But more... uh... community minded? Friendly? Is that what I'm looking for? There is very little chat going on in iRacing. Verbal or written. You are absolutely not allowed to rib anyone or express your true feelings about a situation. Sure tempers flair on the track sometimes, but that is decidedly human. It makes us real. To each other. Through a fancy TV screen. There is more personality in LFS.
LFS, race when you want, not every two hours to empty servers. Every time I enter a server in LFS I get what I am looking for. A race and a result. And then I know where I stand. And I can join a server with people I choose to race. (I use the term 'race' lightly in most cases.) Also, every time I look for a server with a race on it, I find one. I spend far too much of my day staring at the iRacing session schedule wishing for a race that aint gonna happen. (What the F#&@ am I paying for?)
That last sentence in parentheses would get me a reprimand on the iRacing forum and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they yanked my account. I don't feel welcome there. (Even though I'm F*%&#*$ paying.)
Here's the important bit for me: As far as I understand it, and I don't claim to in any way, Scawen wants to make the finest asphalt automobile racing simulation available in his lifetime. From what I believe I've seen and read, he chooses to not compromise his vision of what that is. From what I've seen and read, I agree with that philosophy 100%. Every point in this thread has genuine basis. All observations of both sims accurate for the most part. That being said, if you spend some time with iRacing, you will find a much greater element of unrealism in their sim. A lack of variety in races, points systems, and personality. Damage is ridiculous and unpredictable. Sorry, but the physics are just off. (Drive it yourself, you'll feel it eventually.) They claim to be the most real sim out there, not even allowing mouse, but if you don't have a clutch, that's cool, just don't expect your brakes or steering to actually utilize the full range of control in the sim. In the end I get the feeling that K&Cs priorities are off. On for their agenda, perhaps. Which may be to make a lot of money marketing a cool real world alternative to having talent, money, and luck. But iRacings philosophy does not ring as true as Scawens. And their sim, and the experience that one can expect within iRacing, feels that way. Snowboarding, skateboarding, karting, and bicycling... I've been in a lot of races in my life. I know what racers are like. I get more racing from LFS. It just seems more pure at heart. The people are more free somehow. And many of them are the same people.
And I think Scawen does that on purpose. Amoung everything else he has to think about in LFS, he really does take care to involve us. Not cater to us. But let us get involved. It's intelligence at work. A higher order of thought. Completeness.
Fanboy? No. It's empirically evident.
If LFS started charging a yearly rate the racing would quickly start looking more like iRacing. It is problematic though... wait... maybe not. I was thinking that anyone who has payed so far would have every right to complain seeing that the deal was different when they joined. But some different server licenses, like the difference between demo, S1, and S2. S2P or somesuch. All drivers on those servers would be those who have payed the yearly rate. If you don't care to pay, you use the other three systems. The pay system would be much more dedicated. It's pretty obvious I would think. Then, if the devs so choose, they could even defer some small portion of those monies to the leagues from the customers they draw to that system.
I don't know, now I'm thinking too much. I'm really just amazed that I'm paying so much to iRacing. It could be much better, or... a better value... or something.
Anyway, how long has it been since S2 came out? 40 bucks? 3 computers ago? A fourth on the way? 2 Wheels? A third on the way? 5 or 6 other sims? 330 lift passes? 60 bad dinners at overpriced restaurants? 2 couches and 2 cars?
Can I paypal Scawen for no reason?
PS Still no girlfriend, but working on Ana. Mmmm.... Ana.... serious business though. Very serious.
People are having less trouble with the DFP. Something to do with the Logitech drivers for the G25 and Kaemmers childish controller implementation/prioritization/philosophy.
You, my friend, are bloody quick.
Get back in there.
Good read there, Mark. I've really enjoyed your reviews in this thread because they've been clearly honest and entirely qualified at every point.
If I may interject on the topic of the CTRA in comparison with attitudes to racing on iRacing: The reason that the CTRA closed was not due to costs at all. It was entirely down to time constraints. For me specifically, it was because I overstretched myself by extending the features of the X-System while simultaneously serving the additional features on the website, while simultaneously attempting to handle all the reports that were being filed. Ultimately, the bottleneck was the reporting system. I maintain that it was a kick-ass reporting system, brimming with features (I think all the admins agreed it was expedient, effective, logical etc) but a fundamental component of the reporting system was watching a replay, usually 2 or 3 times.
If it had been feasible to do, I would have turned the reporting system community-side. Gentlefoot's mechanism of league participants making stewarding calls and decisions was inspired, and if I had had the time and energy, I would have juggled the whole system to integrate that. Becoming overseer to a system that was community-driven would have extended the lifespan of CTRA indefinitely. I just didn't think of it in time to do what was needed before I completely burned out. That was my error.
I would dearly love to see the CTRA reborn in LFS. And it will be. I'm actively helping a group at the moment, giving them all the information they need to replicate the scoring etc. They will ultimately also have the CTRA's entire database of points, which they'll no doubt be extending with new ideas and new classes, new schemes and internally organized league-style events and so on. The most important thing for UKCT was to find a group to hand the project over to, in which we had absolute faith that the integrity of the system would never be compromised. We've found that.
Anyway, the reason I wanted to post was to impress upon everyone that good and responsible pickup racing CAN happen without a monthly fee being levied. It doesn't take money.. not a penny, there are people who will pony up to cover any costs just as UKCT did for 2 years (and never flinched, never felt even a pinch).. what it takes is the desire for that standard of racing, and a community with a heart. LFS has that in abundance.
And if CTRA is NOT your thing, or if you CAN allocate specific windows of time in the week, there are TONS of leagues within LFS. LFS is not, and never has, lacked in this department.
If I may interject on the topic of the CTRA in comparison with attitudes to racing on iRacing: The reason that the CTRA closed was not due to costs at all. It was entirely down to time constraints. For me specifically, it was because I overstretched myself by extending the features of the X-System while simultaneously serving the additional features on the website, while simultaneously attempting to handle all the reports that were being filed. Ultimately, the bottleneck was the reporting system. I maintain that it was a kick-ass reporting system, brimming with features (I think all the admins agreed it was expedient, effective, logical etc) but a fundamental component of the reporting system was watching a replay, usually 2 or 3 times.
If it had been feasible to do, I would have turned the reporting system community-side. Gentlefoot's mechanism of league participants making stewarding calls and decisions was inspired, and if I had had the time and energy, I would have juggled the whole system to integrate that. Becoming overseer to a system that was community-driven would have extended the lifespan of CTRA indefinitely. I just didn't think of it in time to do what was needed before I completely burned out. That was my error.
I would dearly love to see the CTRA reborn in LFS. And it will be. I'm actively helping a group at the moment, giving them all the information they need to replicate the scoring etc. They will ultimately also have the CTRA's entire database of points, which they'll no doubt be extending with new ideas and new classes, new schemes and internally organized league-style events and so on. The most important thing for UKCT was to find a group to hand the project over to, in which we had absolute faith that the integrity of the system would never be compromised. We've found that.
Anyway, the reason I wanted to post was to impress upon everyone that good and responsible pickup racing CAN happen without a monthly fee being levied. It doesn't take money.. not a penny, there are people who will pony up to cover any costs just as UKCT did for 2 years (and never flinched, never felt even a pinch).. what it takes is the desire for that standard of racing, and a community with a heart. LFS has that in abundance.
And if CTRA is NOT your thing, or if you CAN allocate specific windows of time in the week, there are TONS of leagues within LFS. LFS is not, and never has, lacked in this department.
Wow. Sam. That is excellent news. I'm like 200 points from International B. I still have my last races fresh in memory. The things I learned. Of course it brings me to another thought.
Please forgive me if I cross any uncomfortable political boundaries, but I have not read a lot on the subject of the CTRA.
I did read a quick description of B. Rose's new system. Blue or something? Anyway. The ideas were absolutely stunning. Elegant. Which is exactly what I have thought about the CTRA. Two of my friends bought S2 and wheels because I introduced them to CTRA in my living room. The web site was instantly intriguing. Everyone desires affirmation in this gigantic world. (People walk in, see the wheel, see that no one they know can see them playing with computer toys, and they won't take no for an answer.)
These are only two of countless other systems that are allowed in LFS. By design, the race design is left up to the community. I can't imagine the work that goes into designing and maintaining systems like this. The devs have enough to do making believable and effective racing software. The decision to leave this portion of the experience in the hands of the users is brilliant. Very open minded. Giving us exactly what we want because when we see the need, we build it. (I say we, meaning you.)
Is it possible that K&C are simply trying to bite off too much?
BTW I am so going to hulu to watch Hollyoaks. (OK. That was a bad idea... sorry.)
From what I know of Blue2, it'll be brilliant and will extend LFS again, within the community with its facilities for both leagues and one-off events.
As you say, it's the direction that LFS has always supported and encouraged and it's seemingly the opposite direction from the one K&C seem to naturally gravitate towards. Scawen has created extensibility stubs throughout the LFS code, with InSim, OutSim and OutGauge. These stubs make LFS highly appealing for anyone with an idea they want to explore - from a league system to a motion simulator, it's all catered for with LFS.
As you say, it's the direction that LFS has always supported and encouraged and it's seemingly the opposite direction from the one K&C seem to naturally gravitate towards. Scawen has created extensibility stubs throughout the LFS code, with InSim, OutSim and OutGauge. These stubs make LFS highly appealing for anyone with an idea they want to explore - from a league system to a motion simulator, it's all catered for with LFS.
Fixed the first part for you
And yes, you can pay Scawen any time you want to. Either buy thwacks of "skin downloads", or purchase some S2s to woo more friends. It think there was/is a way to just "pay" as well - hence all the people that used to put "S3 Licensed" in their sigs and whatnot.
This is highly dependent on what time you are online. I actually feel the exact opposite here, when I'm on LFS at night there are rarely any fully populated servers, so most of my time is spent looking for a race, waiting for the current race to end, etc. With iRacing on the other hand, I know exactly when a race is and I think there had only been one case so far where there weren't enough people to make it a points paying race for me. I can freely do other things around the apartment with iRacing, and I know that I can go over to my computer at 8:10 and there will be people ready to race at 8:15, no time spent sitting around waiting. I guess its just a personal thing, I used to do pickup race after pickup race but don't do that so much any more, I find iRacing's schedules work better for me.
Didja read the post directly above the one I'm quoting?
Did I hear someone mention CTRA? or a similar? can't wait for that
I rarely read before responding
Bit silly that you cannot even offline test while your account is inactive... after spending money on the skip barber and all 
oh well.. I will reactivate soon.. the FFB just ruined everything else on me
oh well.. I will reactivate soon.. the FFB just ruined everything else on me
LFS Fanboy compares iRacing (Got a half an hour?)
(179 posts, started )
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