Why are you throwing your hands up? Nothing we say makes any difference whatsoever! The only ones you need to prove anything to are the Devs.
Anyone else that posts here should just be noise to you. But I really think if you want to make a suggestion it should be posted in the proper place.
erm... what the hell toni? please point out where all this supposed anti drift sentiment manifests itself in the post because i sure as heck dont see it
If you ask me i don't have nothing against flaws but this fanboy attitude its the real problem.
Cuz by flaming anyone who say something sux fanboys actually want final version to be released with all this flaws.
The only thing that attract me in LFS its physics LFS don't have licensed cars, tracks, in fact it have to few cars and tracks to compete with any racing game on the market it don't have modern graphics(Ofcourse i don't say it look bad) or detailed car setups.
Physics its pretty much the only thing LFS have better than competition and it still attract players.
But you know most of the others sims have better graphics, more cars, everything its bigger better and more.
And the most important thing community actually demand improvements so others sims are not standing in place in development.
LFS community its the only community that actually want game to stop in alpha and halt any development.
For a few more years without changes physics LFS would be just average and the game in a whole would be just outdated.
Only a few players will still be play it fanboys probably unless they turn to praise some other sim so even if you liked game without ppl to race online or simple community it will not last long.
You know lack of criticism its not really a good thing and in case of LFS its just halt the development.
I mean its still alpha so if things that needs improvement wouldn't be pointed no one will improve it.
LFS will be an average game and all thx to bunch of fanboys who don't want anything better than they get and not take under consideration there is more ppl not just them.
So basically fanboys are the one who praise the game now and the ones who will be played it when it will be outdated or turn to some other sims with better physics, graphics etc.
In other world they are the reason LFS will die.
Unless they allow other player to say their opinion without being flamed or getting all kind of critics which is not really have any basis
Exactly! Get some fresh blood into the beta testing team! Hell, most of the current beta testers I suspect are not even active in LFS anymore.
About the tyre heating thing.... mmmm.... I'll just say there's room for improvements. Anymore detailed will just get you flamed to death by 15 year old fanboys who's never driven a real car before.
And Zeug, didn't he prove his point? Do you think you need billions posts to prove a point when a video could speak for itself? Maybe you didn't watch at it or didn't get it? If you still fail to see it, well... I can't help you
what bothers me is unbalanced tire compounds.. try race R3 in fbm or r2 in bf1.. i think its not quite good that u can't even do 1 flying lap using r2 without getting 130C also if u try to use r2 on 2-3rd lap u have so little grip that it's very difficult to even stay on a track, it should be possible to use even soft tires in race warm up slower, get through graining stage without that snappy overheated tire problem, but it would wear fast... also r4s in most cases areuseless... they may be good for 10 laps but then they run too cold so really.... u have no choice in tires.. in 90% cases there is only 1 choice for a car as any other kind of tire is useless and this affects strategic part of lfs... it just simply doesn't exist... and still.. it's always faster to get fuel for whole race than make pitstop.. so unrealistic... tire physics isn't perfect and because tires are directly only link connecting road with chasse they are crucial to make simulator be a good simulator... and i realise that tires are very very hard to model properly. but still in real life u get detailed graphs and parameters of tires and lfs is lacking such data, we should have something to base our setups and find optimal range but at the end its all linked to physics
The different comments by real life racers/drifters (especially in page 3) where much more useful to support his argument than the video the guy posted in the OP. (And no, I didn't flame you)
I think we all know the issues about the tires when they are too hot in LFS. I have no idea on how it translates into real life with similar temperatures (I don't have any spare money to blow up a set of tires) so I have to rely on the inputs (especially scipy's points that were quite good imho).
What most people don't understand is that physics in games are just models. They are not real life. The goal of a model is to get as close as possible to real life, but it'll neither be equal to (to be perfect, LFS would have to model the heating of every molecule of the compound and see how this affects the wear/temperature/grip level of the tire, which is totally non-feasible considering our level of technology rightnow).
Of course there are flaws in each models, and so far the devs are doing a good job. And I'm sure they will improve it sooner or later (read my previous point on improving a model).
For doing karting a bit, I find that the model so far is quite realistic. I overheated my tires one day during a race (I had to slide around to dramatically avoid the erratic driving of lesser experienced racers), and the soft slicks got pretty weird to control. The rear would snap out very fast and very roughly under power, and under coast to a lesser extent (which helped regarding the entry-understeer on the machines I race on).
I have no idea, though, on how the same tires would handled at 150+°C, so I'll shut up
The thing is, other sims do not have this soap tire issue. And as I mentioned in my first post, it wasn't THIS BAD up until one of the later patches of LFS.
Something was changed with the tires, and it was to the worse. It can be changed back to how it was and made a bit better while at it, that is the point of this all.
I know the video doesn't prove much as is, I incorrectly presumed more people here would have more real life (no, not staring at graphs and spreadsheets) experience and common sense about how tires react.
I don't know much about other sims, I tried rFactor, and oh my god, no matter what "realistic" mod I used, the tire physics were very crappy. I don't know about Iracing (I can't afford it and I'm not into ovals anyways ), but from what I've heard on the tests, the tires physics are worse than with LFS.
I do have noticed, however, a drop in the grip levels for all of the tires (or I got really bad ). I am not sure how this affected too hot tires, since my drifting days are way behind me.
However, if someone managed to in IRL, managed to get the behavior or an old GT3 (same specs as the FZ50) with the rears at 150°C, your video could serve as a very good comparison base
i didnt read the whole thread but tyres have allways needed fixing even cold tyres arnt exactly right the main problem is the lat grip once exceeded isent savage enough and once you regain grip the transition from slip to grip isent allways right let alone when heated.
but as sim racing goes the tyres are quite good just not perfict
Hey, I knew this would be a tough crowd to get to even before I began frapsing.
Talking of other sims, rFactor tire model is pretty horrible indeed in general, but I consider it to have better hot tire physics than LFS. Not purely in grip level wise, but overall. iRacing has better tire physics all around in my opinion, except for the unfortunate lack of visible tire deformation.
I also consider Forza 2 (if we could ignore it being a console title) to have better hot tire physics than LFS, and it interestingly has a totally opposite way of tires heating up compared to LFS. Do a burnout in Forza 2, and the outer layer of the tire heats up very very quickly, whereas in LFS the outer layer stays relatively cool until you do a very long burnout.
Same happens with the tires cooling down, the outer layer of a tire in Forza cools down relatively quickly from the result of a burnout, but if you heat the tires by racing hard, the tires cool down a lot slower (like it always happens in LFS). I don't know which is the correct method of tire simulation, but it is extremely interesting that there are this radical differences in how tires are simulated between different racing titles.
Although it would make sense that the outer layer of the tire should heat up a lot faster than it currently does in LFS when doing a burnout, since it takes quite a while until the LFS tires start generating smoke, which purely depends on how hot the surface of the tire is.
Snipped your text there for the following point:
For information, the F9 display does not show the tyre surface temp in LFS.
If you want to see the real time surface tyre temperature you have to use shift+F9. Not easy to do when driving, but this shows the actual tyre surface temp and varies very quickly - both heating and cooling.
I do not know what part of the tyre's temperature is displayed in F9, probably some distance inside the thread - I remember AndroidXP stating that some time ago, maybe he has more data on this.
The "feels around 50°C" described above for track experience could be simulated in LFS - allow a cruise back to pits after a few rough corners and 30s cool down time in pits, then check the shift+F9 surface temperature - I wonder what it will look like.
I asked again a person who I really think is an expert in real life when it comes to getting the tires hot.
He tried it on grippy expensive tires like r888, r1r, also on cheap china tires.
But also keep in mind his idea of grip is.. Tons of grip.
When the tires will get very very very hot, as they start melting they can lose even up (edit: not up to, but even at least 50% less of grip) to 50% of grip. But situation like 5th gear dori on oval in 250hp xrt. Or drifts in xrg on overheated tires (xrg shouldn't be even able to reach so high temps, because the thread would go off, speaking from experience here) are not real. So maybe lateral G wise things are quite realistic in lfs, but spinning the tires wise not.
Thanks mate, that did the trick. 6 years in and still learning new things!
It seems indeed that the normal F9 menu doesn't display surface temperatures, by pressing ctrl+shift it is much closer to what also happens in Forza 2 while doing a burnout. There goes one of my theories right out of the window, good to be proven wrong.
Still doesn't explain the very hot tire grip levels though.
But I really think if you want to make a suggestion it should be posted in the proper place.
couse it is turning into a fight 
.
. There is QUIET LONG list of "improvement suggestions" 
.
