In my ongoing, slowgoing quest to get faster I wonder whether the guys who are quick are constantly hanging it out, i.e. are you quick people always just the right side of a major accident, or do you feel like the car is well under control when you're lapping quickly?

If you don't feel like you are just about to lose control, then you are not going fast enough.

However, the more you practice, the more it feels like you are in control, and you push it just that little bit further. During a long race, you step it back a bit to maintain consistency.

You drive on what is known as the limit. A fine line between losing control and taking the perfect corner. It's very hard to find this limit in a computer sim, due to the fact you can't feel the g-forces and grip levels first hand.

However with practice and constant spinning/crashing plus improved setup changes, you will begin to learn where this limit is and should be able to push towards it.

can usually tell if i am pushing too hard if the tyres are red before the race is over, big bright red tyres says to me "please take care of me"!

Kev, do you use Shift-F mode? I know it's not ideal with no flags or map, but it does hide the split times. I have used this mode to great effect in Vixen once, when I needed to concentrate on being consistent - I enabled qualifying mode (shift-f) and just drove. It turned out that that 'stint' was my fastest stint too, as I was 100% concentrating on driving.

If you miss your braking points than your braking too late obviously. Instead of lowering your braking points try to improve your turn in line and acceleration out points as that where the times should lower. For me, getting a good exit speed is better than getting a good entry speed.

I don't feel like I am losing control, but the edge of the road feels pretty incredibly close sometimes. One is supposed to make use of all the road in turns etc.

The Shift-F thing is hiding the entire HUD, right? I do that all the time - bound to a button on my wheel. First of all, it increases framerate, which I need. Secondly, it makes it much easier to concentrate. And feels more realistic in ways too. I click the button now and then to see where others are on map and which lap/position I'm in, etc.

'the limit' in LFS is not a particularly scary beast. When driving quickly I constantly fluctuate slightly over and slightly under what would be the theoretical 'optimum'. I generally feel in complete control, though there are some track / car combos that suit a slightly 'looser' style more so than others. I'm terrible (comparitively) in the rb4 for instance, because it seems to require such finesse and accuracy to drive quickly. The lx6 at south city is an example of the other way around

Quote from tristancliffe :

Kev, do you use Shift-F mode? I know it's not ideal with no flags or map, but it does hide the split times. I have used this mode to great effect in Vixen once, when I needed to concentrate on being consistent - I enabled qualifying mode (shift-f) and just drove. It turned out that that 'stint' was my fastest stint too, as I was 100% concentrating on driving.

Gotta agree 100%, SHift-F gets rid of all the distraction, that and block messages. Just the track, car in front, car behind. That's realy all you need to know. I get much more focused durring a race.

Now if we only had a small pitboard pop-up at the start/finish line with position/lap time/diff to car in front/diff to car behind, it would be ideal

Interesting reading from all you quicker people, thank you. The encouraging thing is that LFS definitely rewards doing things right, so even though I feel a fair way off the pace still spending some time looking at telemetry from a WR lap enabled me to shave 4 seconds off a lap of Fern Green!

I find the limit of the car to be rather a broad band. The car, especially RWDs begin pushing the rear sideways, which you can feel through the FF and the tyres reach very high slip angles, which you can hear through your headphones (or whatever you use).
For me most of the "fun" in LFS is to ride this limit and to constantly keep the car on it's edge. It takes a whole while to learn how to percieve this limit, but when you know the right indicators (see above), it's easy and very rewarding.

In a nutshell:
Yes, the car is always nearly loosing control, but that doesn't mean I can't keep it on this limit throughout a 2 hours race.

Vain

i must have control. When i race i actually have colder tyres at the end. I have even won races with tyres like that so i think it's controllled.

We/they hang out were they want.

you just don't have low enough tyre pressure, or your compound is too hard, Rappa.