MPH Rob, not KMPH.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

MPH Rob, not KMPH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4en3Z-t1xN0

Here you are sir, 185kmh (= 115mph) on the clock in the 1L Yaris

115 on the clock, 100 in actual.

Quote from buntatofu86 :

Why did the engineers choose a V8? Why did the S2000 engineers, for example, choose a 4 cylinder when they could've gone with a bigger engine? The answer is that they chose the V8 as an easy route for big power and that the other engineers stuck with the lightweight and compact 2.0 liter inline 4, allowing them to not only have the lightest engine possible with minimal inertia, but to mount it entirely behind the front axle, making the car a mid-engine roadster while still squeezing out 250 horsepower.

Ok now, as we are all aware of, road racing is all about the corners. There is a way to truly compare. Detune that ZR1 to 250 hp and let's see if the S2000 (Again just for this example) or the ZR1 will be faster on the Nurburgring. The fact is clear that V8s focus on power. Sure they can be VERY fast on the track, but if you were to engineer a car from scratch, extracting the highest power you can out of the lightest engine possible is the ideal route, instead of thinking "Oh hey let's just simply add more cylinders!" Why not have 24 freakin cylinders then?

These are all track videos from people I know back in LA. They're VERY fast and no slower than professionals, if not faster. This is also proof that it's all about the turns and that horsepower comes second. 4 cylinder cars keep up with and pass V8s like nothing every day.

Emilio breaks 2:00 with his 158 whp Miata on Buttonwillow 13! (1:58 best lap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_5Xk8xBrqM

Carles Ng driving his Alvaka/949Racing C5 Z06 on Buttonwillow 13 (RWD Modified Class 1st place. 1:56 best lap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ejcySX0JTc

Manly Kao of trackhq.com driving his Lotus Elise on Buttonwillow 13 (RWD Street Class 1st place. 1:58 best lap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQSMRDJ898

Tim Kuo driving the Sport Car Motion Civic on Buttonwillow 13 (FWD Modified Class 1st place. 1:55 best lap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw84VuetW_0

Here are some videos of my friend Jack. He's the record holder for a bone stock S2000 on SOWS CW at 1:30.33!

Jack driving his AP2 on Button ... ed Class. 2:01 best lap)
Jack going downhill on GMR

And it seems like you are another drag racer, so have you ever thought about how much more hardcore road racing (real racing) is? The G forces experienced under braking and cornering far exceeds that of any straight line acceleration. It doesn't matter how fast a car is because even a 1000 hp car would be more exciting and rewarding on a real race track than a drag strip. Straight line performance is just part of road racing. It's like seeing who can jump higher vs basketball.

There I said it. Sorry for being so harsh but I have seen too many people all over the internet bashing on anything that's not a V8 as if they know what they're talking about (I'm kind of letting it all out on them too, so don't take all this too personally). Normally I don't get into this debate over engines and cars, and I believe that any car can be suitable for the track, because I believe racing (on a road course) is all about the driver. Which brings up another point on how lower powered cars (or cars with just the right amount of power) are best suited for training the race driver due to the bigger penalties in mistakes (harder to use power to mask over and catch up your lost speed), and the importance in watching your entry speed and car's momentum. Momentum cars make fast drivers!

Then there are people who think more power is always better. For drag racing yes. But for road racing, it's all about finding the power that best suits the chassis, suspension, weight, and almost every other aspect of the car! Power, as with any other aspect of a car's setup, should be adjusted accordingly. Would you run a car with 90 degrees negative camber (because more negative is better)? Or would you drive a car with a welded differential on the race track because it's always 100% locked up? Or would you drive a car with 10 wheels on the race track because more wheels mean more traction? Or drive a car with solid suspension (as in no travel at all) because stiffer is better? NO!!! It's just plainly dumb! I hope you get my point.

By the way I do respect you and your work and all V8s and all cars. But I just want people to know the science and facts behind what they're talking about. Sure the fact is V8s usually have more power and sound mean, but there's a bigger picture, especially in the racing world. That is all.

Hate to break it to you, but it was the small engine guys that started bashing me first...look back through the thread. I have no issue with 4cyl cars...in fact, when it's time to get a daily driver so the Tbird can have a much lighter load, I really want to get something like a Mazdaspeed 3. I'm also a big fan of the WRX STI, among other cars. But what I hate is when import lovers come in here acting like they're "better" than everybody else because they use less cylinders. I'm also not sure where I said, or insinuated, that more hp is always better. You just assumed that because I have a V8 car. And actually, drag racing is every bit as "hard core" as road racing.

I completely agree with you about the road racing stuff...a fully balanced car is key. That's also why I disagree with your argument against the ZR1; it was built/balanced to handle 600-700+hp, not 250. Totally different setups; you can't compare them. But people think that V8 cars can't handle, which is very wrong. The Corvette proves it (and if that isnt enough, check out the ACR Viper @ the Nurb video). There are also many people in the Mustang community that have very well handling road course setups; I hope one day to make my Tbird into a corner-carver. Also take a look at monstermiata.com - the stuff there is something I hope to do one day with my spare engine and a 1st gen Miata. And my whole point with the S2000 is that it makes NO torque. Torque is much more important than horsepower in many cases, and many import lovers like to ignore the torque number. As much as I do like, and respect, modern 4 cylinders, nothing will ever beat the sound of an American V8 at WOT, at least for me. Oh, and just 1 more thing...in 1987 and 1988, you could get a Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe with a 2.3L turbo 4 cylinder with 190hp (you could get them in other years too, but 87 and 88 were the most powerful). So lets not talk about how American cars always need V8s.

It's no secret that the S2000 has no torque below six thousand rpm. From a realistic point of view, for daily use in traffic, it's terrible. The car is not exactly slow, but not "240hp light roadster fast".

The point is, it has more the characteristics of a racing engine. Trust me, the engine plus the crazy high rpms make it feel like you're sitting in a race car (it's far from a race car and i know that). Either you like it, or you don't, but it is the way how that engine works. And if you like it, it's a pretty fascinating one.

I have nothing against big/heavy engines and low-end torque. They have their own characteristics aswell, which you can love or hate like any other concept.

The point was that you don't need a big engine for a high horsepower output. At least that's what i picked up from reading through the posts... then again, i didn't read all of it in detail.

Quote from kingcars :

Hate to break it to you, but it was the small engine guys that started bashing me first...look back through the thread. I have no issue with 4cyl cars...in fact, when it's time to get a daily driver so the Tbird can have a much lighter load, I really want to get something like a Mazdaspeed 3. I'm also a big fan of the WRX STI, among other cars. But what I hate is when import lovers come in here acting like they're "better" than everybody else because they use less cylinders. I'm also not sure where I said, or insinuated, that more hp is always better. You just assumed that because I have a V8 car. And actually, drag racing is every bit as "hard core" as road racing.

I completely agree with you about the road racing stuff...a fully balanced car is key. That's also why I disagree with your argument against the ZR1; it was built/balanced to handle 600-700+hp, not 250. Totally different setups; you can't compare them. But people think that V8 cars can't handle, which is very wrong. The Corvette proves it (and if that isnt enough, check out the ACR Viper @ the Nurb video). There are also many people in the Mustang community that have very well handling road course setups; I hope one day to make my Tbird into a corner-carver. Also take a look at monstermiata.com - the stuff there is something I hope to do one day with my spare engine and a 1st gen Miata. And my whole point with the S2000 is that it makes NO torque. Torque is much more important than horsepower in many cases, and many import lovers like to ignore the torque number. As much as I do like, and respect, modern 4 cylinders, nothing will ever beat the sound of an American V8 at WOT, at least for me. Oh, and just 1 more thing...in 1987 and 1988, you could get a Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe with a 2.3L turbo 4 cylinder with 190hp (you could get them in other years too, but 87 and 88 were the most powerful). So lets not talk about how American cars always need V8s.

Ah ok, that's cool then. I didn't know about the other guys starting this. I feel the same way you do. I also agree V8s can handle and I don't get why people think otherwise. As long as the chassis and suspension is set up right, it doesn't really matter what type of engine you're running. You are cool. It's just that some other V8 guys see other cars as utter crap and don't understand much about anything other than power and straight line performance.

And by the way, you're right about American cars not always being V8. My friends Buick, for example, is one hell of a 6 cylinder turbo!

Quote from jibber :

It's no secret that the S2000 has no torque below six thousand rpm. From a realistic point of view, for daily use in traffic, it's terrible. The car is not exactly slow, but not "240hp light roadster fast".

The point is, it has more the characteristics of a racing engine. Trust me, the engine plus the crazy high rpms make it feel like you're sitting in a race car (it's far from a race car and i know that). Either you like it, or you don't, but it is the way how that engine works. And if you like it, it's a pretty fascinating one.

I have nothing against big/heavy engines and low-end torque. They have their own characteristics aswell, which you can love or hate like any other concept.

The point was that you don't need a big engine for a high horsepower output. At least that's what i picked up from reading through the posts... then again, i didn't read all of it in detail.

You are right. As far as sound goes, I can see why lots of people love the deep rumble and growl of V8s, but I'm sure you and I both love hearing our smaller engines screaming at higher RPMs. It's all just personal taste, like you said.

Quote from buntatofu86 :

And by the way, you're right about American cars not always being V8. My friends Buick, for example, is one hell of a 6 cylinder turbo!

Grand National? Need pics.

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

Puuh-lease, 1L Yaris is good for 117mph according to the manual

220 kph = 136.701662 mph

You are all not car enthusiast . You should love any kind of engine! V8, I4, it doesn't matter, they both are beautifull. I love small Japanese coupes with high reving engine, and i love those old muscles with huge V8, and suspension characteristic of a boat. They both give different feeling, but they both are beautifull! GUYS! CHILL OUT! Let's make love not war!

Quote from Byku :

You are all not car enthusiast . You should love any kind of engine! V8, I4, it doesn't matter, they both are beautifull. I love small Japanese coupes with high reving engine, and i love those old muscles with huge V8, and suspension characteristic of a boat. They both give different feeling, but they both are beautifull! GUY! CHILL OUT! Let's make love not war!

This.

The whole American bashing is silly. Although I do admit I have done it before on other forums (but only ever for my own personal enjoyment at annoying people online). Normally it revolved around the 1988 5.0L V8 Camaro putting out only 170hp.

I think this is terminal.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2FaW8byYI0

Quote from Byku :

You are all not car enthusiast . You should love any kind of engine! V8, I4, it doesn't matter, they both are beautifull. I love small Japanese coupes with high reving engine, and i love those old muscles with huge V8, and suspension characteristic of a boat. They both give different feeling, but they both are beautifull! GUY! CHILL OUT! Let's make love not war!

But there not saying they ALL hate V8's and what not, there just stating there preference. Theres nothing wrong with having a discussion here as its what forums are for.

As for me, im a huge V6 guy and i love any kind of V6. Im sure some of you have seen my chavv'ed up mondeo () but i really do love it. The V6 in that is able to scream upto 7100RPM safely, and its sounds soooo nice.

Saying that, i also love my accord. Limiter on that is at 8100rpm, and vtec comes in at 4500rpm. That also sounds a little race-car ish althought not as much as an S2000, the engines in them are crazy!

This is my favourite engine of all, the ford cologne V6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... CbfsY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... bSBvY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... AxaVk&feature=related

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4en3Z-t1xN0

Here you are sir, 185kmh (= 115mph) on the clock in the 1L Yaris

Downhill with a tail wind.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Downhill with a tail wind.

Don't forget, there was also a tornado behind it

Get a satnav with the Mph readings, speedo's mean shit, mine told me I was doing 115 once, the damn thing wouldn't even go over 106mph when it was first produced, why would it go so far now?

Quote from danthebangerboy :

I think this is terminal.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2FaW8byYI0

Sounds like it could be an input shaft bearing or pinion bearing. It could have damaged the gearset, but you wont know until it gets stripped and you have a look.

A full set of bearings (with seals) will cost £50 approx and should take no more than about 3 hours labour, to strip, clean, and rebuild the box.

This gearbox is a peugeot gearbox. The gearsets in this type are much stronger than the peugeot and citroen types so therefore, the gearset will hopefully be ok.

P.S, i really dont reccomend driving that anymore unless you have to. Its going to pack up, and if it does, it will seperate the gearset and break the teeth off it.

Quote from Byku :

You are all not car enthusiast . You should love any kind of engine! V8, I4, it doesn't matter, they both are beautifull. I love small Japanese coupes with high reving engine, and i love those old muscles with huge V8, and suspension characteristic of a boat. They both give different feeling, but they both are beautifull! GUY! CHILL OUT! Let's make love not war!

QFT.

Quote from DTrott :

This.

The whole American bashing is silly. Although I do admit I have done it before on other forums (but only ever for my own personal enjoyment at annoying people online). Normally it revolved around the 1988 5.0L V8 Camaro putting out only 170hp.

See that's the problem - late 80s. And the Chevy 305 was a horrible engine, though my dad's 85 Trans Am has a 305 (205hp stock) so I don't know what they did to the Camaro's engine. But after the oil crisis in the early 70s that killed the muscle cars, it took the US a little over 15 years to finally start making horsepower again. It wasn't because V8s are bad, we simply didn't have the technology to meet economic standards AND make horsepower at the same time. I really hate when people are ignorant and try pointing out 70s-80s V8s as examples of why V8s are bad, without recognizing the situation going on at that time. It wasn't until cars like the Grand National and 5.0 Mustang that American cars finally started going fast off the showroom floor again. It's simply ignorant to use cars from that era as a point of argument.

I remember not long ago, I had people from a Civic forum talking trash about my car. The funny thing is, my car, which was bought for $1500, ran a 14.6 @ 94.7 mph in the 1/4 mile after just $400 in mods (H/C/I and rear gears). Looking through that same Civic forum, many guys were doing full engine swaps just to get their cars into the 16s. What a joke. Like I said, I really love the idea of fast 4 cylinders - I've enjoyed videos on youtube of 380hp turbo Miatas laying waste to cars and crazy built early 90s Civics doing the same. It's the ignorance of many of a lot of the crowd that bothers me; I'm sure there's plenty of that in the V8 crowd too. I wish people could just like all makes and models.

In my driveway right now sit:

1966 Chevelle - ~425hp 385ci V8
1988 Thunderbird - ~300hp 306ci V8
2004 Accord - ~165hp 4cyl
1991 Camry - ~100hp 4cyl
1985 Trans Am - 205hp 305ci V8

A diverse group of cars, all of which do great at the purpose they serve. No manufacterer bias in this household.

1/4 mile isnt everything, any car with decent power can do a good 1/4 mile, turning corners is a different story:P tbh thats why i like Euro and Japanese cars more then US cars

Australian cars are just plan fail tho lol, ppl here seem to think putting a big V8 in a family car makes a good sports car:P

Quote from danthebangerboy :

This is my favourite engine of all, the ford cologne V6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... CbfsY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... bSBvY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... AxaVk&feature=related

Pretty good choice, though id pick capri over granada........ mates capri http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvEFiml8Haw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axq8HL_b-0o&NR=1 And the "brimble capri" One off made car by ford 3.4 colonge twin turbo i think

Quote from Byku :

You are all not car enthusiast . You should love any kind of engine! V8, I4, it doesn't matter, they both are beautifull. I love small Japanese coupes with high reving engine, and i love those old muscles with huge V8, and suspension characteristic of a boat. They both give different feeling, but they both are beautifull! GUYS! CHILL OUT! Let's make love not war!

We're chill and I don't mind different engines. Don't worry lol

Quote from kingcars :

I really hate when people are ignorant and try pointing out 70s-80s V8s as examples of why V8s are bad....

I don't get your point. Why wouldn't you compare an 80s V8 to 4 cylinder technology that is 30 years newer?

Quote from mrodgers :

I don't get your point. Why wouldn't you compare an 80s V8 to 4 cylinder technology that is 30 years newer?

Thanks for answering your own question. And please, read my whole post. Specifically this part:

Quote from kingcars :

See that's the problem - late 80s. And the Chevy 305 was a horrible engine, though my dad's 85 Trans Am has a 305 (205hp stock) so I don't know what they did to the Camaro's engine. But after the oil crisis in the early 70s that killed the muscle cars, it took the US a little over 15 years to finally start making horsepower again. It wasn't because V8s are bad, we simply didn't have the technology to meet economic standards AND make horsepower at the same time. I really hate when people are ignorant and try pointing out 70s-80s V8s as examples of why V8s are bad, without recognizing the situation going on at that time. It wasn't until cars like the Grand National and 5.0 Mustang that American cars finally started going fast off the showroom floor again. It's simply ignorant to use cars from that era as a point of argument.

Wanna see how real V8 cars make horsepower?

http://img.photobucket.com/alb ... rs/NewChevellePics007.jpg

V8s don't need fancy electronics or forced induction to go fast. That's over 400hp sittin there in that pic.

Quote from masternick :

1/4 mile isnt everything, any car with decent power can do a good 1/4 mile, turning corners is a different story:P tbh thats why i like Euro and Japanese cars more then US cars

Please come back after you've read the whole conversation at hand.

Yeah, 400bhp, and about 437ci...

Same can be had from a 4L V8, no fancy electronics (electronics don't really give that much power, just the ECU and things again as such you still can screw about with the timing and retard/advance with carbs).. and it's naturally aspirated.

Even today, the examples of most American V8's are still based on the same 30 year old designs, if you read up about it you'll find most of the engines are just "updated" versions of engines that have powered cars for generations.

Not that that's always a bad thing, but it's no wonder the American car market is in such a state..

I see everyone having problems, but the American manufacturers get hit the worst, which in turn (because they (GM and the like) bought everything up to use other people's technology because they couldn't come up with anything good themselves) also were forced to either sell these companies or drag them down with them.