Quote from SamH :

If he'd PAID for Kazza, no matter what content he wanted to download, if it wasn't there, then its lost money.

The argument isn't flawed.

I knew someone would say that..

Then compare bnc networkcards vs. ethernet networkcards.

I just thought the pr0n/P2P comparison would go through better than bnc of which most of the guys here prolly haven't even heard of.

It's not lost money, nothing is broken, everything works as it should, just the people to race with aren't there and you can't buy that nor can somebody sell it (ok, you could hire people to have a race with your clients, but it would cost too much).

No-one can be "forced" to upgrade, it's your own free will.
No-one is "banning" you from the community.
No-one has tried to "trick you".
When you bought an S1 licence you will have done so in the knowledge that it is a growing and developing sim. How long would have been acceptable to you before upgrading, before S2 was released? 3 months? 6 months? One year while all the rest of us have been playing already a year longer?
It's a sad reality, life can never be as fair as we would like it. There's always someone better off than yourself. Some people gripe about it, others could decide to try and organise people to participate in an S1 league with the old cars and old physics.
If you are the only one around who prefers S1, then maybe it's best that the efforts of the developers is best spent looking after the majority.

I don't think any of us disagree particularly on any of the points we're making. Venture outside of specifically referring to LFS S1 and S2, and of course you can begin poking holes in the comparison.

At the end of the day, 2 things result: 1) Robbson bought S1 at a bad time. Rotten luck, can't be helped. 2) After a good ole rant, and listening to some comprehensive responses, Robbson is buying an S2 licence and will be tussling with us on busy S2 servers very soon.

It all looks good from here

I'm off to look if there's some good old S1 servers running...

I can't stand this Kyoto Oval, BF1 crap any more...illepall

Give me an LX6 and FE Black. That's racing

Same story ,
S1 works exactly how its meant to , of that theres no argument.
S1 Community has left to for greener pastures of S2 land, wether you make the move is up to you..

Now now no point going on about how little time S1 land was popular cos as an avid forum reader you knew all about the S2 subdivion being worked on and that new homes would be available very soon,so the best idea is to go see the bank manager and borrow some cash for a new S2 house and you play with all of us..

Thank you

Quote from SamH :

I don't think any of us disagree particularly on any of the points we're making. Venture outside of specifically referring to LFS S1 and S2, and of course you can begin poking holes in the comparison.

At the end of the day, 2 things result: 1) Robbson bought S1 at a bad time. Rotten luck, can't be helped. 2) After a good ole rant, and listening to some comprehensive responses, Robbson is buying an S2 licence and will be tussling with us on busy S2 servers very soon.

It all looks good from here

Agreed

- Tero

Quote from Vykos69 :

OK, I just cutted out the other trolling, that you also started in german forum, and make it simple:

Just for the record of speculation: With S3 you get an Online Racing Sim with prolly 30+ clients on a server, LFSTV, about 1600 car/track combinations from low powered UF1 to formula1, from bike to trucks. With tracks from rallye to rallyecross, from autocross to Formula1 tracks, ovals etc. An uptodate DX9 engine with best texture work you can get.

And you want to tell me, that 54 Euros will be too much? How much did you pay for a single series racing sim called GTR, which didnt ran smoothly? New price 55 euros... or an even less equipped game like rfactor? Did those game work well? Ah, right, you gonna buy GTR2 for another 50 euros this year, for 3 new cars, a "brand new" gfx and physics engine and a season 2 years ago. Wow, LFS is expensive....

Ah, did I start about the planned online features of racemore? Costs of iracing? Ah, sry...

To put it straight: 36,- Euros for the quality you get atm is probably the best price/quality ratio out on the sim-market.

gtr runs fine! provided that you run it in windowed mode, can wait a million years for it to load and can deal with the ISI physics


Hmmmmm, i think ill stick with LFS...

Quote from Robbson :

... I paid the same price and be only allowed to play it some month before S2 Alpha release... and that's it... Hey, I bought it for online playing and not for offline content!...

Having a little look at LFS World, the only person the OP has a right to be angry with is himself.
According to LFSW, he bought his S1 licence on or before 4th April 2005. He played S1 on a grand total of 7 days in that month, he then played on only one day in May, then one day in June, since then he hasn't played in a licenced server once.
Maybe Robbson, if you had actually played the licenced content online for those few months before S2 was released as you intended and claim to have done, you may not be so angry (with yourself) now !

kind regards

Col

Still a moot point - but why are people saying that since he's using S1 he's using old physics? Correct me if I am wrong (with a statement from somewhere) but my understanding of the way it works is that someone with an S1 license still downloads the most complete, recent version of LFS and applies their unlock, which only unlocks the "S1" content on the current version of LFS. Thus there is no need for old servers with old physics - it's the SAME SOFTWARE, just the CONTENT is different with respect to the license you hold...

Quote from SamH :

Quote from fragile_dog :

Hmmm, a small solution I feel. What if s1 servers showed up in the s2 server listings? Im assuming s2 players can play on s1 servers. This would make s1 servers more popular, allowing s1 players to have a decent race .

I think that's a great solution. I do know quite a few S2 drivers who love to drive cars that just happen to BE S1 content, and would be REALLY happy to see the extra S1 drivers filling up the S1-content, S2 servers.

I agree, it does sound like a good solution. Easier and less risky to security than trying to allow S1ers to access limited S2 servers. It would also be handy to let the S2 server list include demo servers as well as S1. LFSWorld can already to a combined S1/S2/0.3 list. Even though it might not make as much difference now that they've stopped selling S1 licenses, the problem will only pop up again with S3, and to a greater degree because of the sheer increase in the total number of accounts.

Until recently I was a S1 license owner. Yes, the difference is only in content. Same software, but limited content as you said

sh*t happens

i bought cod2 and cod with expansions at xmas as a present to myself off my son as loads of people i've known online since 99 enjoy playing them

i dont like them, find them too claustaphobic compared to bf2 and havent touched them since mid jan

i spent that money (can't remember how much but more than £12 ) and had about 6 hours play out of them but do i complain?

lets face it £12 is not a lot compared to the uk cost of beer, fuel, milk etc. and i assume its fairly similar in germany

if robson could afford to buy s1 then i am sure he can afford to upgrade to s2, a total cost of £24

this is exactly the same as what i paid for s2, no extra cost to him over me appart from the fact that he had the chance to play s1 for a month before s2 and probably for a while afterwards and has had access to the s1 content since.

if it comes to it it could be argued that s2 users who upgraded straight from demo because there is no longer an s1 option are being shortchanged as s1 users have a chance to try more cars and tracks and spread their cost over 2 payments.

ask yourself robson

is you found lfs today would you pay £24 for licence ?

have you bought anymore games or sims since you bought s1 licence and were they more than £12 to buy ?

if yes to either then dont complain

Robbson
Lets say you got a special offer when you bought S1, lets say you got it for half the prise. And lets say the original prise was 10, you would then get S1 for 5. Right?

But then, 3 months later, S2 is released and you want to upgrade. You pay another 10 for the S2 upgrade. And because you bought S1 so late you only pay 15 in total, everyone else though is paying 20, even those that have played LFS since the very beginning.

Well, I think it would have been unfair to those that have played LFS for a long time, why reward some new guys the devs don't have a clue if are going to stay or not, instead of those that have prooved that they will stay and actually use their program?


ooooh, smell a bunch of typos in this post.

Quote from fragile_dog :

Hmmm, a small solution I feel. What if s1 servers showed up in the s2 server listings? Im assuming s2 players can play on s1 servers. This would make s1 servers more popular, allowing s1 players to have a decent race .

Thats a good suggestion

I just skimmed through the topic, but have not found someone mentioning my improvement suggestion> Removing the S1/S2 separation. Somewhere in the thread Victor mentioned that there are very few people (like Robbson) with this problem and it would not be worth for Scawen to dedicate his coding time to this... And having the S1 servers show up for the S2 licensed is a good idea!

Easy solution imho is divide server list to demo/licensed, not demo/s1/s2.
S2 player will see S1+S2 servers in one list, S1 player will see only S1 servers. There will be more players on S1 servers, because S2 player could connect to FE/LX4 race directly, no S1/S2 list changing.
S1/S2 status of server wont be set thru config, but automatically depending what track/cars allowed.

Quote from Pablo.CZ :

Easy solution imho is divide server list to demo/licensed, not demo/s1/s2.
S2 player will see S1+S2 servers in one list, S1 player will see only S1 servers. There will be more players on S1 servers, because S2 player could connect to FE/LX4 race directly, no S1/S2 list changing.
S1/S2 status of server wont be set thru config, but automatically depending what track/cars allowed.

As has already been explained, this would cause a not insignificant problem.
If as S2 server is running an S1 track/car combo, and there were say 10 S2 players and 3 S1 players on it, what happens if all the S2 players decide they want to change to an S2 only combo ?
Do they kick the S1 guys? do they have to stay on a track they are bored with or go and find another server ?

There is no simple answer to this, which ever way it was resolved, some people would get annoyed, so why bother, certainly the current situation doesn't cause enough traffic on the forum to be a real concern

The best solution seems to be to show S1 servers in the S2 list, leaving the decision to the latest time for S2 players - this way there might be a little more competition for any remaining S1 players. Though I doubt there are many (I know for a fact the Robbson is S2 now

col.

i think Pablo ment> only add S1 servers to the list S2 licensed player sees... Do not change the server status... (serverside setup.cfg decides if the server is demo/s1/s2) so if the s2 players connect to s1 server they too can not change the track to Aston or drive the FOX on FernBay... if they want to drive anything from s2 they would have to go to another server (s2), because the one they are on, is S1 only. ...

Quote from col :

As has already been explained, this would cause a not insignificant problem.
If as S2 server is running an S1 track/car combo, and there were say 10 S2 players and 3 S1 players on it, what happens if all the S2 players decide they want to change to an S2 only combo ?
Do they kick the S1 guys? do they have to stay on a track they are bored with or go and find another server ?

I thought not allow change to S2 combo until some S1 player connected, similar as /tracks command, you have to find another server too if your asked track isnt allowed

Quote from col :

The best solution seems to be to show S1 servers in the S2 list, leaving the decision to the latest time for S2 players - this way there might be a little more competition for any remaining S1 players.

sounds good

There's currently one 0.5S-U server, 3 if you count the 2 older versions. Of which 1 is occupied by 1 person.

Not worth the trouble nor the time.

i bought myself a horse and now everyone's using these new horseless carriages. DANGNABBIT! it's just not right.illepall

speedfreak227

Quote from tristancliffe :

LFS is NOT expensive. Compare LFS to the cost of a powerful enough computer in ANY country, and LFS remains small change, so no one should EVER be allowed to critisise it for being expensive. If they claim it's too much then how come they can afford a PC good enough to run the demo.

Yea.... LFS is not expensive ... compared to a PC,... a new Car IRL,... a house, ... LOL thats funny.
Would you plz compare a racing game with.. erm.. a racing game!

Should i tell you what happens if S3 will really cost £36.
It's easy: There will be no more new players!
The old players will stop playing it after some time... (for several reasons - life changes... I already experienced that with many games before.)
...and LFS will be dead.

Btw... before you affront me... i will buy this game in that moment when they release a track editor or at least release the file format so that some1 else can code a track editor.
ohh.... and the price should be not more then EUR 40.- of course....

[sorry for becoming a bit off-topic]

buy the time S3 come out all game will cost more than 36Pounds I can assure you. (while being the same old crap or probably worse)

Just now the Xbox 360 games are topping 50, while latest PC games like Tocrap Racedriver already cost you 30.

Btw the longitivity of LFS wouldn't be a problem as long as the development goes on, this is no way a new game by any definition, but it's also no way ageing, it's still in it's early age of development I would say.

Quote from eNGinE :

Yea.... LFS is not expensive ... compared to a PC,... a new Car IRL,... a house, ... LOL thats funny.
Would you plz compare a racing game with.. erm.. a racing game!

Should i tell you what happens if S3 will really cost £36.
It's easy: There will be no more new players!
The old players will stop playing it after some time... (for several reasons - life changes... I already experienced that with many games before.)
...and LFS will be dead.

Btw... before you affront me... i will buy this game in that moment when they release a track editor or at least release the file format so that some1 else can code a track editor.
ohh.... and the price should be not more then EUR 40.- of course....

[sorry for becoming a bit off-topic]

People even buy games for 70Euros or much more (World of Warcraft is the best example), and the LFS community will definetely not be dead.
What the devs should do, though, is remove the stages system, because people are too stupid to let it work as it should.

They dont realize that they get S1 for free when they buy S2

Okay lets compare racing games. I'll do it in English money (cos it's the best :shy

LFS - £36 but you can pre-pay and play it early if you want to.
Grand Turismo x - £39.99 initially, probably reducing to 29.99 after a few months for each new version they bring out.
GTRx - £30 for each new version they bring out. Assuming one very two years, and two years before LFS is finished, they thats £60
GTLx - £30 a clone of GTR to fleece more money from you
rFactorx - £30 (once you add tax) Another version of rFactor's gravity defining masterpiece
netKar Pro - £25 but it'll still be unplayable online in all likelihood.

So LFS isn't really all that bad. I kind of hope track editors never get released, because it attracts a poorer type of person in my opinion, as well as flooding the community with 8 polygon versions of the 'Ring, including the 100ft kerbs.