Quote from richo :

All what? What does that mean to a new person contemplating buying LFS?

I would bet that many people don't know there's even a link to LFS World on the main site. Its such a good sim it seems such a shame not to breath some life into the place where the majority of people have there first contact with LFS.

"What does it mean?"...WTF do you mean?, is it not written in black and white right in front of your face that there is a huge community racing and using the software as it's designed to be used, I can't imagine the type of consumer you might be thinking of that searches for an online racing sim and winds up at LFSW news and stats and is then by your logic turned off because there's a whole bunch of country's and community's racing one and other for years...maybe this type of consumer might land on NFS's website for lack of plugins and add-ons etc. etc. ...

This is the last time I'm commenting on threads such as this as I'm blue in the face listening to the sane among us repeat what LFS is and listening to the people whom gain from damaging Scavier's public image constantly miking the shite out of this news and information or lack there of.

Its ok you can keep your head in the sand , if you believe that a new person to LFS sees that there's been nothing to update or even speak about on the official website in more than eight months is ok then cool more power to you.

Btw i am not talking about whats going to be patched or updated in LFS its self as thats another can of worms.

Just some sign of life for the non forum or cbf looking at the forum racers cant be a bad idea?

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

Becky I respect you as person here even I dont know you much but when someone saying his opinion about something is not well why he has to be a moaner.

I dont know where you got that from in my post, I was referring to the state of the community. There is a lot of moaning in recent months.

That doesn't meen i'm branding anyone as a moaner .

Sorry nothing personal just me probably reading wrong.

I dont think all is moaning just sometimes simply stating the feeling of things not being as expected or as they could be.

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

I dont think all is moaning just sometimes simply stating the feeling of things not being as expected or as they could be.

I guess Becky was talking about the people who say that the devs destroyed christmas or who claim that the devs are sitting on a tropical island with the money earned through LFS sales.

Yes, there have been posts like that.

That is sad then

Quote from tristancliffe :

Less overheads, less sharing of work and the complications that bring, and most importantly because THAT IS HOW SCAWEN, VICTOR AND ERIC WANT TO WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! THEY LEFT JOBS TO WORK ON A PROJECT WITH A SMALL TEAM. HOW HARD IS THAT TO GET INTO YOUR BRAIN?

I get that. But how is 5 people not a small team? How is even 10 people not a small team, for that matter?

Example. I used to fly transport for a parachute assault group in an MMOFPS. We had 60 members. We never had any trouble communicating, organizing and executing immensely large scale joint operations across entire continents as mid-teenagers. That trend continues now with my airsoft wargames. We have no trouble organizing 80+ man assaults, ambushes, snatch-and-grabs and escorts over milti-square-mile AOs, even though some fireteams don't have radios. If a bunch of 20-year-olds can do that I think the LFS team can handle having a couple extra members with absolutely no problems.

Fact is, this is an incredibly ambitious project, and it's come a long way, but we're starting to see signs of it's death here. Long update times, lack of communication, I've seen this trend a hundred times before in mod teams, clans and many other independent projects, and it never ends well. When that will be is anyone's opinion, but eventually, sometime soon, LFS's current team will get utterly swamped and progress will stop. If they don't grow, LFS will not grow. Simple as. The fact that people are so defensive about it really only emphasises the problem.

Quote from MadCat360 :

Fact is, this is an incredibly ambitious project, and it's come a long way, but we're starting to see signs of it's death here. Long update times, lack of communication, I've seen this trend a hundred times before in mod teams, clans and many other independent projects, and it never ends well. When that will be is anyone's opinion, but eventually, sometime soon, LFS's current team will get utterly swamped and progress will stop. If they don't grow, LFS will not grow. Simple as. The fact that people are so defensive about it really only emphasises the problem.

Quote from The Very End :

Been suggested, in topics like "Let's be real.." , "Developer blog?" etc topics.
Scawen has replied to both, and both times told that it won't happend. They don't want to start rumors or speculations, because the mess on forum is unbearable and not looking good either in regard of the forum's "face".

As soon there are updates they will release them, untill then we just have to wait and see.

Much have been told, and can be said, but I don't want to stirr up that dicsussion again.

You will get some topics like release the LX 8 and the Miami track for a few ages. That's all

It would be nice to read about coming updates (or canceled updates), but i can understand they don't want to do it. It both has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Now you have people complaining the website hasn't been updated for 6 months and asking if the VW is done yet. If you do release info you will get threads about canceled updates, delayed updates. People will open threads about it either way. It would be possible to give the moderators more instructions to keep things positive, but that would give strange discussions too. People will then open threads about freedom of speech and communism The devs just can't please everyone, no matter what they do or communicate.

Quote from MadCat360 :

Fact is, this is an incredibly ambitious project, and it's come a long way, but we're starting to see signs of it's death here. Long update times, lack of communication, I've seen this trend a hundred times before in mod teams, clans and many other independent projects, and it never ends well. When that will be is anyone's opinion, but eventually, sometime soon, LFS's current team will get utterly swamped and progress will stop. If they don't grow, LFS will not grow. Simple as. The fact that people are so defensive about it really only emphasises the problem.

I don't think you are right about LFS dieing and us seeing that right now, but there will come a day development will stop. I hope the moddscene will then take over, like it happens in some other games (not especially rFactor).

Quote from MadCat360 :

Fact is, this is an incredibly ambitious project, and it's come a long way, but we're starting to see signs of it's death here. Long update times, lack of communication, I've seen this trend a hundred times before in mod teams, clans and many other independent projects,

You comparing two different things. Mod teams work on a voluntary basis. There is rarely any financial incentive nor a large commitment other than free time. LFS is a different kettle of fish as Scawen and co have to actually feed themselves through this project.

I find it quite funny how people can come on here (especially demo users) criticising the development of LFS when they themselves don't have the balls to go and do it themselves. And that means properly, not doing mods on a Sunday afternoon!

I, in the past, have fallen victim to this trait. I spent a large amount of time criticising iRacing and its payment plan, until it dawned on me what a stupid prick I was being. Who am I to complain? I get ALL the benefits from these projects with minimal commitment or investment.

It is a bizarre situation we find ourselves in when people that have paid £20 or so for a product that is more than worth it start spouting insults to the developers. The deep hypocrisy of these people is that if they don't like the work rate of LFS developers won't don't they start their own project!?

Quote from Intrepid :

You comparing two different things. Mod teams work on a voluntary basis. There is rarely any financial incentive nor a large commitment other than free time. LFS is a different kettle of fish as Scawen and co have to actually feed themselves through this project.

I find it quite funny how people can come on here (especially demo users) criticising the development of LFS when they themselves don't have the balls to go and do it themselves. And that means properly, not doing mods on a Sunday afternoon!

I, in the past, have fallen victim to this trait. I spent a large amount of time criticising iRacing and its payment plan, until it dawned on me what a stupid prick I was being. Who am I to complain? I get ALL the benefits from these projects with minimal commitment or investment.

It is a bizarre situation we find ourselves in when people that have paid £20 or so for a product that is more than worth it start spouting insults to the developers. The deep hypocrisy of these people is that if they don't like the work rate of LFS developers won't don't they start their own project!?

True. Most people think they act out of love for the game, untill they understand they act like a prick. Often that never happens.

You know what I think? I think the devs should have planned better. You can’t release a good (incomplete) product, sell a bunch of it and then expect people not to want more and more of it or at least a finished product. That’s great that the devs want to run their project the way they feel fit but if everyone loses interest before it is even finished it seems like a bunch of wasted effort.

I also think these forums are useless now. It’s all groveling, annoying re-occurring threads and people suggesting the same crap over and over as if it had never been thought of before. Who gives a shit? LFS will be done with LFS is done and why I keep checking these forums must be due to how boring my job is and the lack of other content on the interweb. I know that every day I check lfs.net for an update will not be one. I also know that every day I check the forums there will be no new information regarding LFS. I know I will be greeted by the same kinds of posts, same suggestions and same annoyances.

I want LFS to continue to grow into its final ‘stage’ but unless something magical happens I don’t think LFS can keep up with the rest of the market. Even if LFS continued to chug along at its abysmal pace I don’t think I would be too interested in it unless it made some huge advances.

None of our opinions really make a difference. Nothing will change. Nothing has changed much at all in terms of development process and new content…we all, at least those who have been around since ‘Day 1’, know what to expect. Why we keep second guessing it is beyond me. Why I even took time to reply to this stupid thread is also beyond me.

If u look on the mainpage it looks like the game has been abandoned (december update implies patch was due in a matter of weeks).

So I don't care what the devs reasoning is, it would take very minimal effort just to assure p[eople that the game s still being worked on (I for one do not have time to trudge the forums).

Most people dont care so much about getting hard facts (which i understand why you don't want to release when nothing is really finalised), it's just the feeling of being abandoned and our loyalty being unappreciated that reaalyy gets my goat. Cos let's face it, everyone here took a leap of faith when they coughed up 25£ for an in progress game (some things are so primitive - like how nobody can perform any actions while someone is joining server), so I think a little sympathy by the devs would go a long way.

Quote from Intrepid :

You comparing two different things. Mod teams work on a voluntary basis. There is rarely any financial incentive nor a large commitment other than free time. LFS is a different kettle of fish as Scawen and co have to actually feed themselves through this project.

I find it quite funny how people can come on here (especially demo users) criticising the development of LFS when they themselves don't have the balls to go and do it themselves. And that means properly, not doing mods on a Sunday afternoon!

I, in the past, have fallen victim to this trait. I spent a large amount of time criticising iRacing and its payment plan, until it dawned on me what a stupid prick I was being. Who am I to complain? I get ALL the benefits from these projects with minimal commitment or investment.

It is a bizarre situation we find ourselves in when people that have paid £20 or so for a product that is more than worth it start spouting insults to the developers. The deep hypocrisy of these people is that if they don't like the work rate of LFS developers won't don't they start their own project!?

Not two different things. I've seen a lot of projects with many monetary commitments, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars just vanish for seemingly no reason.

If people never complained about anything, all we'd ever get would be crap. If standards are not constantly raised for product expectations, be it food, medical, entertainment, industrial materials or anything else then progress slows down. Demands and expectations are met and the world moves forward. Customer criticism is a big part of that. Case in point, Forza 3. If the whole community didn't go up in arms about cockpit mode, there likely wouldn't be one in Forza 3.

Seriously, demo racers that joined within the past few month are now complaining? Can it get any more pathetic than this? Give me a break already...:bananadea

Time to close this one for good if you ask me.

Why everybody has to ofend Demo racers.
Some of them were with LFS for ages before they actually bought it and not everybody has to register on the forum as soon as he started playing it. Dont let the the demo racer speaking here....thats the really best idea. The feedback unless its total bullshit makes this game going forward.

Your reply was non-sense.
Just try to thinking more next time.

Agree. Even if it can be discussed if they got the right to demand or ask for anything, feedback can be valuable if it's done contructive, and should not be judged by a text under your name.

Quote from 510N3D :

Seriously, demo racers that joined within the past few month are now complaining? Can it get any more pathetic than this? Give me a break already...:bananadea

Time to close this one for good if you ask me.

this obviously isn't my s2 account u gullible tool

Quote from MadCat360 :

I get that. But how is 5 people not a small team? How is even 10 people not a small team, for that matter?

But that's isn't the small team of Victor, Eric and Scawen anymore. They want to work in this way. It's why they teamed up and made LFS - to get away from managing other people or having multiple people working on different things in different ways...

If it gets to the stage where LFS has to have more programmers or artists then I'd imagine they'll just stop developing it and move onto another project that doesn't need more people. I don't see that happening for a while, but I do see that happening over enlarging the team.

Quote from vel0city. :

this obviously isn't my s2 account u gullible tool

Aren't multiple accounts banned?

Yeah, the demo account (if you got S2 account) will be banned/disabled then. So if you got S2 account, please log in on that one

Quote from tristancliffe :

But that's isn't the small team of Victor, Eric and Scawen anymore. They want to work in this way. It's why they teamed up and made LFS - to get away from managing other people or having multiple people working on different things in different ways...

If it gets to the stage where LFS has to have more programmers or artists then I'd imagine they'll just stop developing it and move onto another project that doesn't need more people. I don't see that happening for a while, but I do see that happening over enlarging the team.

When it'll happen is anyone's guess. It won't happen tomorrow though.

Personally, I hope they expand the team when the time comes, because I like LFS a lot and I'd like to see it continue on for many years, growing all the while.

Its very interesting reading the comments here

I think the demo user bashing really has to stop its just another negative thats not nice to see, there is a free demo, and people who use it should feel just as welcome here as everyone and I read posts not account status.

The developers will not give in to begging or pleas to give information, personally I think they have better things to do than feed information to a community like ours.

If your not happy with the sim or the spped its developed, thats cool, you have the right to say anything here you wish and thats cool too
However if you expect to change how the developers work is done, well thats somthing that no amount of complaining will ever do, as Tristian has said many many times the devs have chosen this way of working, have an excellent product that many enjoy as it is now.

I don't care how long it takes, I do know it will be continiously developed as long as Scawen wants too

SD.

Quote from vel0city. :

this obviously isn't my s2 account u gullible tool

If you're going to deliver your diatribe here, the least you can do is have the integrity to do it with some honesty in the community. Use your S2 account.

Quote from vel0city. :

this obviously isn't my s2 account u gullible tool

This account isn't used for "Born2Rage" by any chance?

Username rings a bell for some reason ...