Skiding a lot. Steer less and it'll be better.

BTW, what happened with your steering input at L2 T1 ?

Couple of times you got some mud on the tyres, this makes them more slippy, andd they heat faster.

R1s are softer, try R2s maybe

agree nice and smooth just slightly less wheel turn sometimes could help with less heat

Good luck

SD.

Thanks for the comments. Whoa, I never thought of that, I'll try with less steer.

Keling; oh well, not quite sure, haven't happened to me be4, prolly some malfunctioning with the wheel setups in either LFS / profile manager

e: I tried driving smoother, driving in wider lines etc and managed to finish with 90c tyres, so thanks for the tip, it work'd :>
figured I dont have to steer / throttle so much to go fast, was just chilling trough the track and managed to do 4 "great" rated laps in a row : )

WAAAAY too much negative camber. You're not consistent enough to use that much. You're just cruising down the straights destroying the inside edge. The only times you benefited from it was when you got into zero steer and you only did that a handful of times and mostly only on the exit. The right front tire was barely working at all. Pull some camber out. (EDIT) Ah, I was playing around with it in LFS and rather than taking camber out try going to 0 degree toe settings. The FBM has some toe by default and you might try taking that out. If that does nothing (I doubt it) making the anti-roll settings softer will give the tires more life but might affect grip drastically.

You also need to trail brake more. You're probably not seeing the benefit from it because you're using the default brake bias. Dial it in to 50/50 and then try it, it'll respond better. You're only carrying brakes past the turn-in two times per lap at most, and only by a hair. Turns 1, 5 and 8 all use a good amount of trail brakes. As a result you're way early on the throttle into all of them. Throttle pick-up should be just before the apex, not just after entry. To force yourself to trail brake more, brake where you're braking now, but brake lighter. You only want to use as much brake pressure as necessary to rotate the car. Too much and you over slow. Too little and you go wide. Once you've got the car in the right slip angle get back on the power to settle it, even if it's just neutral throttle. A stiff differential setting will help you with that.

You mis-shifted a couple times. With the FBM you want to hold the shift paddle/button/lever as you approach the shift point and then just back out of the throttle half way sharply. That's the fastest and most consistent shift with the FBM.

You had a couple incidents of what we call "terminal understeer". This is when the front tires are well beyond maximum but the rears are barely working at all. Usually this happens when you run wide and the momentum shift in the G-forces stops. When this happened to you (like on the last lap in turn 5), you added more steering. Don't do that, it really only makes things worse. Come off the throttle and use a bit of brake if you need to to get the car pointed towards the exit. Just because you run wide doesn't mean you can't have a good corner considering.

Hope that helps. I'm only nit-pickey because I think you're a good driver. Truth is, the better you are the easier it is to critique.

Thanks for the post, was a good read. But Im a little unclear about the 1st chapter, especially the 0 degree toe part, could you try to explain that part a little differently?

I'll definately practice trail braking, but it just gets me rear tyres to lose traction, I guess it'll be better with 50/50 brake balance

Quote from lihakasa :

Thanks for the post, was a good read. But Im a little unclear about the 1st chapter, especially the 0 degree toe part, could you try to explain that part a little differently?

I'll definately practice trail braking, but it just gets me rear tyres to lose traction, I guess it'll be better with 50/50 brake balance

Sure. Toe is the direction of face for the tire. Toe out means the tires are facing outward from each other slightly. Toe in means they "pinch" together. Toe affects balance more than anything, as it causes slight drag. Extreme toe settings will shred tires on straights. 0 degree toe means the tires have no face bias - they're straight and true. If you can make a setup work without resorting to toe to balance it, then all the better.

If your rear tires are losing traction with front brake bias then 50/50 will only make it more twitchy. I only suggested it because it would make the effects of trail braking more obvious. Ultimately, you want as much rear brake bias as you can handle, since it makes the car respond to much more delicate inputs, and thus you lose less speed trying to make it rotate. Try it, see if you like it, but if you're already getting loose then you probably won't like it much. I suggest just notching it back in 3% increments until you find the happy medium. Be warned, though, too much rear brake bias and you'll spin if you lock the brakes (40/60 or more, generally).

I usually don't think a low front brake bias is a good idea.. The bias should be set up for maximum straight braking force, which usually means 60-70% front braking (weight goes forward when braking).

Quote from RasmusL :

I usually don't think a low front brake bias is a good idea.. The bias should be set up for maximum straight braking force, which usually means 60-70% front braking (weight goes forward when braking).

I just did a practical test in Forza 2 (because it has live telemetry). This is with a Ferrari F40, slicks and downforce added.

60% Fore 180 MPH: 1.35G

50% Fore 180 MPH: 1.55G

45% Fore 180 MPH 1.50G

45% is slower to 0 but for me it was faster around the corner since I didn't have to use as much brake to get the car at the right angle. Physics says the fronts should lock first by a fraction of a second, but rear brake bias favors my driving style and I'm faster with it around the corner. I'm just used to doing it that way because I've been racing rear-braking-only sprint karts for the past 2 years, and I try to get everyone else to do it that way because I'm an egomaniac.

Truth is, you gotta use what suits your driving. If you're not a big trail braker then front brake bias will be faster for you. But everyone should try it.

I tried with more balance towards the rear and it was horrible for me, couldnt keep the wheels from locking without going seriously low on the brake power if you have yourself a FBM setup with settings that favour trail braking more could you share maybe .. ?

Quote from lihakasa :

I tried with more balance towards the rear and it was horrible for me, couldnt keep the wheels from locking without going seriously low on the brake power if you have yourself a FBM setup with settings that favour trail braking more could you share maybe .. ?

I don't have a set as I use the keyboard. When the wheels locked, would the back end get loose? Are the back wheels locking or the front?

brake power will also help you. try reducing the power by a few clicks until the locking stops.

Quote from MadCat360 :

I just did a practical test in Forza 2 (because it has live telemetry).

:rolleyes:

This test is meaningless when talking about LFS. LFS's brake bias directly controls the torque split between the front and rear wheels. Forza's brake bias controls the pressure split, and from there determines the true torque split, which is hidden from the player.

For the record, LFS has a live accelerometer in the F9 screen (some other F screens too, IIRC).

Quote from Forbin :

:rolleyes:

This test is meaningless when talking about LFS. LFS's brake bias directly controls the torque split between the front and rear wheels. Forza's brake bias controls the pressure split, and from there determines the true torque split, which is hidden from the player.

For the record, LFS has a live accelerometer in the F9 screen (some other F screens too, IIRC).

I don't have a wheel for LFS, so getting the right threshold braking out of a button isn't exactly, well, possible. It's just an illustration. Obviously it could vary a little bit in LFS.

That's what the max braking force is for.

Quote from Forbin :

That's what the max braking force is for.

The threshold brake pressure changes as you change speeds. What may be under the limit at high speed is lockup at low speed.

Quote from SparkyDave :

Couple of times you got some mud on the tyres, this makes them more slippy, andd they heat faster.

Is that true? Because my friend says that driving sometimes on grass/mud makes tyres to cool more than in long speed trap

If you corner the same way with mud on the tyres, as you would normally do with clean tyres, some grip is lost, due to the mud, if you dont knock off some extra speed then the tyres slip more and heat is produced by this slipping, its quite easy to come off the track because alot of mud reduces grip by a high factor.

if you drive in a straight line like BL1 straight, no extra heat is produced, and the mud comes off slowly down the straight, but I dont think the tyres cool down any quicker with or without mud on them.

Try it at the end of BL1 straight with F9 display up, run your left wheels on the grass for a couple hundred meters before the right turn, then see how this changes the way you have to attack the turn.

This is all in LFS tho maybe different in other games or irl

SD.

Quote from MadCat360 :

The threshold brake pressure changes as you change speeds. What may be under the limit at high speed is lockup at low speed.

Only if downforce is involved.

Even if it is, it's not terribly difficult to set up a consistent test at a set specific starting speed.

Quote from Forbin :

Only if downforce is involved.

That's silly. It's basic kinetic energy. The faster an object moves, the more force is required to stop it, no matter what the stoppage device is.

Okay, so if I do manage to get threshold working from 125 MPH to 60 MPH, what do I do about trail braking?

buy a wheel. it's not like you'd drive a real race car with the wrong equipment.

Quote from MadCat360 :

The faster an object moves, the more force is required to stop it

true, but the with more downforce there is more grip so higher brake force can be used, therefore stopping quicker, but as the car slow there is less downforce so one has to release the brake gradually to avoid locking up

Quote from MadCat360 :

That's silly. It's basic kinetic energy. The faster an object moves, the more force is required to stop it, no matter what the stoppage device is.

Okay, so if I do manage to get threshold working from 125 MPH to 60 MPH, what do I do about trail braking?

Your statement is not very well defined. You're saying the only two variables in braking are force and speed. What you're missing is time. Your statement is true if you want time to remain constant. In racing terms, this is not the case. You want time to be as small as possible, so at slower speeds, time will be smaller. Ideally, you'd have infinite force available to stop you in 0 time. However, this is not realistic.

Assuming the load on the tire does not change (either from downforce or track elevation/camber influences), the force required to break traction is constant regardless of speed.

Quote from JasonL220 :

true, but the with more downforce there is more grip so higher brake force can be used, therefore stopping quicker, but as the car slow there is less downforce so one has to release the brake gradually to avoid locking up

For a perfect run, it is ture. But racers don't always do so. Watch the hud in F1 TV and you'll see most drivers applying 100% brake all the way down to corner entry. F1 cars don't have ABS !

i know its not always true in practice but that is the theory anyway