And I suppose that kovalainen is out performing Hamilton at every turn as well? :rolleyes:

Quote from Intrepid :

lol your hatred for Hamilton is getting a bit much now tristan. Hamilton still won last year in an inferior car to the Ferraris and without (the superb) Alonso.

Then we look at this year. barcelona the McLaren was 2-3 seconds off the pace. now it's capable of podiums if not wins. Who's their number 1 driver??? had it been Alonso and not Hamilton helping to 'develop' I am sure your local shop would be clean out of Kleenex!

Last year, half the races where not even Normal conditions. look at the massive point spread compared to 2007.

Thats what helped hamilton.

Quote from lizardfolk :

And I suppose that kovalainen is out performing Hamilton at every turn as well? :rolleyes:

At least in the last races qualifyings he has XD

Quote from sil3ntwar :

Rubens needs to stfu and thank his lucky stars he is still allowed to drive for yet another top team despite his average as always performances.

So he wont be the only No.2 that Schumacher ever had that had the ability to actually beat him on occasions then??. Yeah, he's always been such a crap driver . Plus, I'd be very interested to see where Button would be right now if Barrichello wasn't his team mate and all his insight in to how to set a car up, which strangely enough Button doesn't seem to have despite being just as experienced an F1 driver as Barrichello.

Sorry, Barrichello just has a tendency to wear his emotions on his sleeve on occasion. I really don't see how anyone can fault him for that. Personally I find it refreshing and would much rather that the sport was made up of people like him than corporate ice men that don't have the guts or whatever to speak their mind, and are usually total arrogant pr!cks with it. At least Rubens is a genuinely nice guy, he is well liked throughout the paddock and sport in general for being so.

I suppose F1 would be so much better if the drivers were just a bunch of yes men who all just followed their team orders and never spoke up about their frustrations. Better they just shut up right, given how much money they are being paid? Because of course paying someone means that you own them right??

Quote from Intrepid :

Apparently Rubens has the ability to find a good set ups with his engineers that has proved very valuable to Button this year. That's why he may still have a seat.

That and the fact its taken this long for even the "oh so talented" Vettel n Webber to surpass him and knock him out of second place in the championship.


Truely the performance of an "average" driver right?

I think he has some right to be frustrated in all honesty. He has been on the recieving end of two fuel rig issues, which are so rare in F1 these days that you can only come to the conclusion that someone just doesn't care enough about Barrichello being supported properly. He's been on the recieving end of two changes of strategy that favoured his team mate and he wasn't put on the same strategy. And he's in a team with a head that he knows, (because he's worked for him before remember), is biased about his drivers and believes in team orders, even if they are strictly speaking against the rules. Given all that, which has only happened to him this season and that he never had any such "issues" back under Honda, (same team members??), it's not at all surprising that he's a little miffed.

Quote from durbster :

Btw, Hatemelol is a desparately poor nickname. You guys really should drop it as it's quite embarrassing.

I call him Gravelton! \o/

Quote from Mustafur :

Last year, half the races where not even Normal conditions. look at the massive point spread compared to 2007.

Thats what helped hamilton.

Really bored of you and tristan going down this line, every single time. You shut up while Hamilton has a poor car, but as soon as there is a glimmer of performance, you're both there sucking each other off. Get over it.

Also, the conditions were the same for all the drivers, every single year, so your point is nonsensical.

I think that Webber did a sterling job - what happened to his German team mate? Where was the "next Schumacher" on Sunday? I didn't see one...

Makes me laugh though, people last year saying "Hamilton is the next Senna", this year "Vettel is the next Schumacher", and now "Webber is the next Mansell". Jesus christ, really? How about "Webber is the next Webber?" Mind boggling.

I actually think Vettel did alright consideriong he spent so many laps after slower cars, he practically lost a pitstop to Webber in all those laps.

The KERS destroyed the racing imo, no matter what you do you just can't get past a car with KERS unless it makes a mistake.

Quote from JJ72 :

I actually think Vettel did alright consideriong he spent so many laps after slower cars, he practically lost a pitstop to Webber in all those laps.

The KERS destroyed the racing imo, no matter what you do you just can't get past a car with KERS unless it makes a mistake.

Vettel's mistake came in qualifying. With the nature of KERS now u need to be on the front row if your in a non-KERS car. That simple really.

vettel's still young it's only his second full year in F1. With the best car we can't expect a guy in his second year to win the championship.... oh we can? lol

Indeed, recent history has proven that with limited competition a driver can win in his second year with the best car, even when he makes so many unforced errors.

Hatemelol is driving better than ever this year. But he's still an arrogant, over-rated cock. I haven't kept quiet when he's been at the back; I've been as vocal as ever about him now he's a "Monkey at the Back". We all knew he was terrible under pressure (look at F1 and GP2 performances to see that), but now we can see he makes those mistakes when not under pressure too. He just struggles with T1 generally

I think we should all help Tristan get into F1. He would probably "own" everyone left and right, be a multi world champion, winning every race every season with 0 mistakes. A real star.

Clearly I wouldn't. But I've seen you [lot] mock Kimi, Alonso, Massa etc. You don't have to be in F1 (or be any good at driving) to be able to judge F1 drivers.

If being able to see that Hatemelol is an idiot means I have to be in F1, then you thinking Kimi is demotivated or that Massa can't drive in the wet, or that Barrichello is too old, or that [insert whatever comment whoever makes (not just directed at DevilDare)] means you must be able to become a 50 times F1 champion. With your eyes closed.

Quote from DevilDare :

I think we should all help Tristan get into F1. He would probably "own" everyone left and right, be a multi world champion, winning every race every season with 0 mistakes. A real star.

Sarcasm, the lowest form of wit, just because Tristan said something nasty about your pal Hamilton.

T'is a bit harsh to say he is a total idiot, he shows flashes of brilliance, but thats the problem, showing flashes of brilliance is not good enough when you also show flashes of idiocy, real legendary racing drivers are consistantly brilliant.

I agree about categorising drivers as the next 'place legend here'.

People spend too much time being all nostalgic and comparing people to past legends, what people should be doing is making new legends today!

Quote from dawguk :

"Webber is the next Mansell"

meaning that his only chance of winning the championship is if he gets into the most dominant car in recent history?

Quote from Shotglass :

meaning that his only chance of winning the championship is if he gets into the most dominant car in recent history?

either that or have some questionable facial hair

If you compare Hamilton to Vettel you can see where Tristan is coming from. Vettel is modest and rarely makes any stupid mistakes, he didn't start out in the fastest car and still won a race, and that was without being handed the victory because of retirements.

Hamilton basically gave up the race the moment he had that pitstop, he wanted to park it. You don't do that just because you're not in the position you want to be, if the car works you keep on bloody driving it to the best of your ability, and that doesn't only apply to F1. I think he needs another bad season to learn what kind of driver he is, he won't learn anything from another season in a top car. After all, smooth seas do not make skillful sailors.

Quote from 5haz :

T'is a bit harsh to say he is a total idiot, he shows flashes of brilliance, but thats the problem, showing flashes of brilliance is not good enough when you also show flashes of idiocy, real legendary racing drivers are consistantly brilliant.

Yes...that means he's a slightly above average driver. SO WHAT? Hamilton has achieved much more in McLaren than many F1 drivers can ever hope for in their careers. Christijan Albers, Sebastian Bourdais, Christian Klien, Takuma Sato, Alex Zanardi, Gaston Mazzacane.

All those drivers were (or are) pretty average in F1. These guys weren't complete crap, but saying that Hamilton is "below average" or a "complete idiot" is saying that he's below those lineup of drivers which is taking hyperbole way too far.

And to say he is complete crap is to put him among the likes of Alex Yoong, Yuji Ide, Sakon Yamamoto, Scott Speed and Jean Denis-Deletraz. Need I explain more? :rolleyes:

Is he champion material? Yes, but he's incredibly flawed. Arrogent? Pfffff, this is F1 we're talking about... :rolleyes:

Makes too many mistakes? Sure, absolutely. But this doesnt automatically cancels the fact that he is a rather talented driver with the ability to rise to the top. A quality I cant say for many F1 drivers. Has he utilized that talent? Well he was world champions wasn't he? Unless you now consider the F1 world title to be something meaningless and easily tossed aside.

Quote from 5haz :

I agree about categorising drivers as the next 'place legend here'.

People spend too much time being all nostalgic and comparing people to past legends, what people should be doing is making new legends today!

The whole idea of legends is pretty overrated. People take it so far going "ZOMG I BET <insert name> can beat <insert name> in this situation." Or "ZOMG <insert name> didn't exactly follow the steps for <insert name> so he's sh*t."

:rolleyes:

Meaningless arguments. One can never make an accurate judgments of this because racing has so many variables. So the tendency to bash current world champions and using past champions as a basis is an incredibly flawed thinking.

Hamilton is more like Andrea De Ceasaris if anything, occasionally outshining everyone, but never being able to keep it up without a mistake or bad luck. And they both drove for Mclaren.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

If you compare Hamilton to Vettel you can see where Tristan is coming from. Vettel is modest and rarely makes any stupid mistakes, he didn't start out in the fastest car and still won a race, and that was without being handed the victory because of retirements.

Monaco, and Australia IMO count as large mistakes. As well as Malaysia where he retired. That Torro Rosso was an extremely strong package in the wet. Boudais.... BOURDAIS qualied 4th and pretty much was the only guy other than Hamilton to match vettel's race pace http://www.formula1.com/result ... 00/6562/fastest_laps.html! vettel is VERY good but lets not get carried away.

Talking about stupid mistakes how many times has Alonso spun this and last year? Warm up laps included lol

Quote :

Hamilton basically gave up the race the moment he had that pitstop, he wanted to park it. You don't do that just because you're not in the position you want to be, if the car works you keep on bloody driving it to the best of your ability, and that doesn't only apply to F1. I think he needs another bad season to learn what kind of driver he is, he won't learn anything from another season in a top car. After all, smooth seas do not make skillful sailors.

Hamilton fights to the end more than any other driver out there. Brazil 08/07 springs to mind. What Hamilton realised was that his car was damaged and wasn't handling correctly. unlike years gone by now you have to save your engine and gearbox as you only get a certain allocation of them during the season. Had Hamilton retired he would have received a fresh gearbox for Hungary. A track where Mcaren could sniff at a win.

You would have to be dumb to think a fresh gearbox and fresher engine is worse than finishing a race in a damaged car after being a lap down.

Hamilton was being smart not 'giving up'.

I don't want to sound like a fanboy, because I would stick up for other drivers in the same manner, but the utter uneducated bullshit thrown at Hamilton in recent months is beyond belief.

Quote from Intrepid :

Hamilton fights to the end more than any other driver out there. Brazil 08/07 springs to mind. What Hamilton realised was that his car was damaged and wasn't handling correctly.

There's no denying that the result in Brazil 08 was pretty much handed to him, that dosen't mean he didn't deserve the title, luck is an important part of racing success.

And if Hamilton does fight more than any other driver, he certainly didn't show this kind of reputation in Germany, giving up your race to get a fresh gearbox et cetera may be clever, but it is the complete opposite of 'fighting to the end', a bit of a contradiction is it not?

We need some drivers like John Watson, about 17th on the grid to 1st, on a narrow street circuit.

Quote from Intrepid :

utter uneducated bullshit thrown at Hamilton in recent months is beyond belief.

The last 36 months, from the Hamilton Fanboys?

Would Hamilton have done much better than Christian Albers in the same car? We'll never know. Albers might have been the better of the two. We'll never know. So don't use that argument. Look at Bourdais - Hamilton wouldn't touch him in a Champcar (or probably a LeMans car), but in F1 it's a different story.

And Hamilton did give up. He wanted to park it. His team told him not to. He still moped around miles off the pace without seemingly trying. Trying to pretend he was being clever and looking after the car, even though it wasn't his decision, is just avoiding the point.

Hamilton deserves all the bullshit coming to him becuase hes attitude should have him kicked from F1, how many Drivers wont to be in this series and this guy races as if he just wants next year to happen and not even bother with this season, every race should be at 100% imo. Look at alonso he has had a crap car two seasons in a row but he never gives up he dosen't have that attitude of not caring about a season if he can't win he races becuases he enjoys it and thats how it should be, look at Webber has had terrible reliability and luck and he never gave up and now its Finally coming back to him.

If Hamilton keeps this attitude we will be seeing the next JV.

Quote from 5haz :

There's no denying that the result in Brazil 08 was pretty much handed to him, that dosen't mean he didn't deserve the title, luck is an important part of racing success.

And if Hamilton does fight more than any other driver, he certainly didn't show this kind of reputation in Germany, giving up your race to get a fresh gearbox et cetera may be clever, but it is the complete opposite of 'fighting to the end', a bit of a contradiction is it not?

We need some drivers like John Watson, about 17th on the grid to 1st, on a narrow street circuit.

But back then they weren't were allowed as many engines and gearboxes as they wanted. With this in mind we could easily say McLaren were giving up on Hungary hoping for some luck in Germany.

We live in a different age now where you can't go wasting your engine/gearbox with a damaged car a lap down. Hamilton knew unless it rained heavily and brought out the safety car he would be wasting his gear. It's not different than caining the arse of a fresh new set of tyres and then finding the go off during the end of the stint.

Quote from Mustafur :

Hamilton deserves all the bullshit coming to him becuase hes attitude should have him kicked from F1,

So should have Webber considering the attitude he showed towards guys like Vettel! Remember Fuji '07? Absolutely terrible arrogance and he was the one who nearly caused a MASSIVE accident in the last race.... except we can't put down Webber can we now?? Webber acted like a complete and utter tool yet noooooooo Webber is immune from criticism.

You are all a bunch of hypocrites. e.g Tristan if your race series said you could only use 1 set of tyres for two 3 races, and in your first race you damaged your aero at the front causing massive degradation, while being a lap down behind and lapping slow, you wouldn't pull in?

In that case, Hamilton is a pussy for not coming in, and everyone in McLaren is a fool for not realising how daft it was to stay out. Either way, he gave up - either at driving, or leading his team through adversity.