Try various cars in LFS, various setups, you still get the same. Doesn't seem right to me, but well

It's because the tyre model, designed for working in a race environment, breaks down at low speed. It has little to do with how the mathematical model copes at racing speeds.

Quote from The Very End :

Try various cars in LFS, various setups, you still get the same. Doesn't seem right to me, but well

Your moms car has an open diff. Which means that the tires can spin freely, hence no slipping. Many setups in LFS use locked diff or close to locked, which makes them behave very very differently from your moms car.

Also what tristan said. The tyre model kind of breaks down at low speeds so even a little bit too much gas can also make the tires spin.

Quote from The Very End :

Try various cars in LFS, various setups, you still get the same. Doesn't seem right to me, but well

Now set an open diff in those cars and try again and see what it does.

Open diffs are a crock of shite for performance but make mum type shopping cars safe for people that will never tr to push for that extra 1/10th of a sec.

That said, there are issues with the tires because locked diffs should also be a crock of shite on the track but in LFS they still rule.

On the subject of skid marks (.. that came out wrong didn't it?)
Lol, how skidmarks are made is currently wrong, Takumi.. someone, the user, had an entire thread pointing out how the skidmarks were made at wrong times etc.

I doubt I will ever be able to find that thread again though.

But anyways, as Tristan stated, the tires aren't exactly made for low speeds right now giving us a multitude of problems, hopefully one day they will be solved.

Quote from XCNuse :

On the subject of skid marks (.. that came out wrong didn't it?)
Lol, how skidmarks are made is currently wrong, Takumi.. someone, the user, had an entire thread pointing out how the skidmarks were made at wrong times etc.

I doubt I will ever be able to find that thread again though.

But anyways, as Tristan stated, the tires aren't exactly made for low speeds right now giving us a multitude of problems, hopefully one day they will be solved.

Yep, I know what you mean now There are lots of times no rubber should be left.

i don't care much about low speed in lfs

if it means the devs need to choose between this or something else, i'd prefer if they ignored it and work on something else.

it's not as if we're going around in lfs at 10kph

no jams either.

however, i STILL think lfs would be valuable in teaching people driving and what the car does when it goes off limits. (with custom maps, traffic that goes abiding the law with someone breaking the law sometimes, etcetcetc)

I don't think LFS can be used to learn people stuff in real life, maybe the completely simple and basic stuff, but nothing more than that. The way the car behaves is somewhat far off from real life, and there are countless topic's pointing out the differences. When that is said, for the basic stuff - yes maybe, but I don't think a normal common sence person will benefit anything big by LFS, other than a lot of fun of course

Quote from The Very End :

I don't think LFS can be used to learn people stuff in real life, maybe the completely simple and basic stuff, but nothing more than that. The way the car behaves is somewhat far off from real life, and there are countless topic's pointing out the differences. When that is said, for the basic stuff - yes maybe, but I don't think a normal common sence person will benefit anything big by LFS, other than a lot of fun of course

Understeer, oversteer, spin recovery, awareness, flags, race craft, prediction (both of what the car is going to do in half a seconds time, and what might happen to the pair in front racing closely for position), how to brake, how to accelerate, how to learn tracks, how to find time, how to race, how to qualify.

All these things can be taught in LFS to a fairly high level. I'd say that's more than 'basic stuff'.

Then I disagree with you Alltho it simulates the real thing to some degree, it still only will be the basics within the various cathegories. Knowing what to do from a computer game will not make you do the right thing if you are in a accident in real life. Sure, you know what to do, but you don't do it because you lack experience. Experience you can only, in my opinion, be thought by driving in real life, game simulates what you should do but in most cases won't help much in a real life situation if you don't got the experience and can hold the head cool.

it can prepare you for how the car will react and how to correct it.
then, you can go and do that in real life

it's not really a good idead to start experimenting in real life without having any idea what will happen.

that, alone, is very valuable.

Quote from The Very End :

Then I disagree with you Alltho it simulates the real thing to some degree, it still only will be the basics within the various cathegories. Knowing what to do from a computer game will not make you do the right thing if you are in a accident in real life. Sure, you know what to do, but you don't do it because you lack experience. Experience you can only, in my opinion, be thought by driving in real life, game simulates what you should do but in most cases won't help much in a real life situation if you don't got the experience and can hold the head cool.

I only stated what LFS taught me in preparation for my real life exploits. Maybe you won't learn as much from it, or maybe you will and never realise it.

And I only stated my opinion, if it's right... Hell man, you know me, I shit out words so emty of wisdom that even Lerts would be ashamed.. I just thinks that is the way, maybe I am right, maybe not

I would also add that hooked up to something like a 301 platform and an open SouthCity and it could be used for far more

One of the things LFS really teaches you is anticipation of problems and how to avoid them. You watch and are in so many incidents in LFS that it improves prediction no end.

Quote from The Very End :

i shit out words

qft

admitting to speak out of one's ass takes balls.
cheers to you

IMO even locked diffs in LFS dont exactly feel right the cars way to stable.

i frequent track days in my track/road car and it has a locked diff and i can tell u now lfs lacks the snap over steer i get in my real car, i mean the lack of feeling in lfs would make it harder to catch it not easyer. IRL at 2500-3000 rpm 3rd gear going around a uturn at 65kph close to the limits of four wheel sliding if you even get the boost to 5 vacume thats -5psi boost it will easly snap wiith 245 wide grippy soft road tyres. and you have no chance in hell of holding the power on to hold the slide you have to feather the throttle to keep the car from doing a 180 or geting snap over correction.

now i have messed with LFS and setup a car exactly like mine with settings and lfs tweek it was alot closer then the normal sets but still to easy to drive

+1 for recalculating grip .

Quote from Woz :

locked diffs should also be a crock of shite on the track but in LFS they still rule.

Really???

Locked diffs DO rule in real life, as instead of having drive to the inside wheel only, which will be spinning its life away with no weight on it, what you got with a locked diff is the outside wheel that does have weight on it also being driven, thus putting the power down on the track.

I have driven both front and rear wheel drive cars with locked diffs in real life, and as long as you can become accustomed to having scrubbed out tyres, a bit more understeer with a FWD, or sudden snap oversteer with a RWD then it is beneficial grip wise, as you can put power down instead of having pretty much 1 wheel drive in corners.

Quote from danthebangerboy :

Really???
you can put power down instead of having pretty much 0 wheel drive in corners.

fixed

Quote from danthebangerboy :

Really???

Locked diffs DO rule in real life, as instead of having drive to the inside wheel only, which will be spinning its life away with no weight on it, what you got with a locked diff is the outside wheel that does have weight on it also being driven, thus putting the power down on the track.

I have driven both front and rear wheel drive cars with locked diffs in real life, and as long as you can become accustomed to having scrubbed out tyres, a bit more understeer with a FWD, or sudden snap oversteer with a RWD then it is beneficial grip wise, as you can put power down instead of having pretty much 1 wheel drive in corners.

The spinning wheel you talk of is an open diff. These are nasty but cheap and "safe" for joe public.

A limited slip diff is preferable to locked diff unless you are drifting. It sends power to the outer wheel when it does "slip" so allows you to get power down BUT also helps you corner.

most of the REAL drifters i know hate locked diff's and i agree with them a proper lsd is better for drifting and racing but not everyone wants to spend 2500$ + just on a lsd center so a locker is a good option.


PS i had a 900$ lsd setup in my track car it lasted 1 week and thats with only 330HP at the wheels

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

most of the REAL drifters i know hate locked diff's and i agree with them a proper lsd is better for drifting and racing but not everyone wants to spend 2500$ + just on a lsd center so a locker is a good option.


PS i had a 900$ lsd setup in my track car it lasted 1 week and thats with only 330HP at the wheels

Yep, when you push cars its not kind on the hardware

As this is LFS and cost does not figure it is hard to understand why locked diffs rate highly in wr charts. It does highlight there is an issue in the tires or drivetrain somewhere.

We will know when it is fixed because the majority will pick lsd over locked instead of the current reversed situation

maybe locked is indeed faster (and realisticaly so) for hotlapping and chasing a WR but it is too hard on the tyres, a problem which would manifest itself only after many laps of driving.

went around kcalb a few laps in the xfr with slip diff and locked diff. more or less the same tyre temp.

uh ... hn.... efsbgdnyh dfasss

going to bed now, bye all

so when is there a patch coming guys coz i agree the grip level is way to unrealistic even as a demo racer with the XRG 1.8 inline 4 it still smokes up with a locked diff and a small brake setting change i also have a logitech g25 and the steering is under steer city lol