Yes, please! Still obvious the huge FZR advantage against the XRR, and the advantage of XRR against the FXR! we don't need this! we need fair classes!!

just look the 24h kyoto results and make your conclusions if anyone still needs!

Still obvious the huge advantage for FXO on TBO class against XRT and RB4, and the RB4 still a bit slower than XRT! We on BRA league will use again a passenger to make the FXO fair, why dont u add the weight for us?

please!!!

Personally, the differences in pace within classes doesn't bother me that much. Differences in driver skill are usually a more important factor in determining a race result.

Some of the more skilled drivers (not me) will often opt for the weaker car in a class to challenge themselves.

On the other hand, if you're in a situation where all other drivers are of exactly the same skill,yeah it's a minor annoyance, but just all race the same cars if it bothers you that much.

Carlos: I fully agree. It is really a pitty that you have no chance driving FXR or XRR against FZR. I dont want total equality, but i want that there are at lease SOME tracks where the FXR is able to beat the FZR or XRR.

Ok, so the FXO is quicker, although not as much as before, why should they be equal in terms of performance anyway?.

All 3, the FXO,XRT, and RB4 are completely different types of car, although in the same class, the FXO will always be faster due to the fact its easier to drive than the XRT, and the RB4 will always be the slowest due to its drivetrain.

IRL all of the 3 cars would be the same, unbalanced due to the above reasons, they shouldnt really be bastardized anymore just in the interests of balancing, its up to either the league organizer to make it a single class, or the driver to get the best out of each car.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

All 3, the FXO,XRT, and RB4 are completely different types of car, although in the same class, the FXO will always be faster due to the fact its easier to drive than the XRT, and the RB4 will always be the slowest due to its drivetrain.

a car ist faster than another, because it's easier to drive? put 100kg into the fxo and i am sure, that it will still be easier to drive than the xrt, but not faster.

But my point is WHY, why should the FXO have a weight penalty just because it is easier to drive faster?.

Dan,

it's easier to drive AND it's faster. it would just be nice, if the cars paces are a little more even.
now the fxo is faster on every tarmac-track. it would be nice if there were some tracks where it is slower than it's competitors. just some tracks.

i don't have to explain, why i think that a more balanced class is better, or do i?

Quote from danowat :

But my point is WHY, why should the FXO have a weight penalty just because it is easier to drive faster?.

Dan,

And that leads to an improvement suggestion that has already been made: Weight penaltys. Although I'm not a friend of this, it seems that it could be a running option for leagues.

+1 for evening out the classes.
It would be nice to have a fair fight with the complete GTR class or TBO class, differences are too big now.

I believe RWD cars should be faster than FWD cars, because they are more challenging to drive and we should be rewarded for keeping it together with faster times. Now we have FXO faster AND easier to drive than XRT. What is the point in driving XRT online then, you always get beaten by FXOs... On a side note: did anybody watch WTCC in Magny Cours last weekend? The two BMWs just smoked FWD cars on start, one getting from 6th to 2nd before even the first corner. Was this just RWD advantage? Ventus

IMHO why make classes if the league are forced to go one car only?

IMHO, balancing out can be done by adding wheight or reducing HP/Torque or a milion other things..

IMHO, this had been a problem since S1.. so a long long time (FXO is atleast)
It was once said they could not balance it out in just some patch since all replays would be lost etc. etc. Well they just released a patch that forced this. I can understand Scawen, Eric and Victor having more on their hands then to test a car balacing HP by HP, Kilo by Kilo, but isn't that a thing beta testers can do?

It just gets me worked up when I corner faster in my rb4 and the xrt who made a mistake still catches me on the straights.. let alone the fxo, fxo is just not in the same class... This is the very problem that after a while got me very dissapointed in S1, please please plz don't let it happen to S2 again.

The idea of classes is very nice, some people like FWD other RWD or AWD. And classes lets all these people come together and enjoy them selfs (the main point of a game/hobby). I love LFS, been here for a long time, planning to stay here for a long time to come. But forcing servers to run RB4&XRT only, or league to go one car only just for the sake of fair competition is not a plus

Well, since most responses here think FXO should keep its advantage. And people should not complain I'll stop now, just thought it was taking an awfull long time for an "ancient" class like TBO to be balanced....

SMOKE out!

Quote from cimermanj :

I believe RWD cars should be faster than FWD cars, because they are more challenging to drive and we should be rewarded for keeping it together with faster times. Now we have FXO faster AND easier to drive than XRT. What is the point in driving XRT online then, you always get beaten by FXOs... On a side note: did anybody watch WTCC in Magny Cours last weekend? The two BMWs just smoked FWD cars on start, one getting from 6th to 2nd before even the first corner. Was this just RWD advantage? Ventus

Add to that the weight penalties the seat's were carrying....

Ok, looking at the WR charts, you can clearly see that as it stands now both the XRT and RB4 are pretty even, but the FXO is between 1-2 secs a lap faster.
Now, I think that this is down to the fact that the FXO is easier to drive, and easier to drive faster, but if this is what people think needs to happen then the obvious thing to do would be to add a bit more weight to the FXO, although it is already 8kg heavier than pre-patch.

Dan,

It's bit of a bummer that certain classes are still stuck to one car dominating the rest. We did see some power/weight tweaking in the latest patch, but seems like the new tyre physics pretty much nulled the penalties. Does the FXO still has wider tyres than other TBOs?

before the patch some leagues had the fxo put a passenger into the car and they were still faster. i think it's obvious that 8kg won't do the magic.

extra weights with a server option to force them onto cartypes would be a great addition and imho the solution for this problem.

@danowat: WR holders have no problem at all with the handling of the cars. they are faster with the fxo simply because the car IS faster, not because there is no one who can handle the xrt properly.

Server and player-side Ballast systems please...

Quote from Fetzo :

before the patch some leagues had the fxo put a passenger into the car and they were still faster. i think it's obvious that 8kg won't do the magic.

extra weights with a server option to force them onto cartypes would be a great addition and imho the solution for this problem.

@danowat: WR holders have no problem at all with the handling of the cars. they are faster with the fxo simply because the car IS faster, not because there is no one who can handle the xrt properly.

I never said it was because drivers can't handle the car properly, its down to the fact that the FXO is easier to drive faster, regardless of driver skill.

Dan,

ok i agree, it's easier to drive fast in a faster car

the fxo is easier to drive faster than the uf1 also...
ie, it's a faster car!

for all the goodness the devs seem to manage, things like this really feel like a lack of playtesting... frustrating.

a heavier engine with higher centre of gravity might be nice for the FXO, 1128kg is really too low for a usual road going FF couple so adding an extra 80kg might also be a good idea.

Quote from danowat :

I never said it was because drivers can't handle the car properly, its down to the fact that the FXO is easier to drive faster, regardless of driver skill.

Dan,

I'd disagree. The RB4 can be set up to be perfectly neutral on the throttle while the FXO requires more throttle control. If the lap times were down to how easy the cars are to drive, the RB4 would come out on top. Not only is the FXO 5km/h faster on the straights, it also has more grip, giving it the upper hand in (fast) corners.

for a side note the Astra Turbo coupe weights 1283kg.

Quote from Thorvertonian :

Add to that the weight penalties the seat's were carrying....

Andy hat a 45 kg penalty.

the RB4 is now about the speed of GTT and it seems to be more grip, which I think is a fine balance.

but as for difficult in handling I think managing the excess weight of RB4 pose some challenge on fast flowing track like aston.

Quote from bal00 :

I'd disagree. The RB4 can be set up to be perfectly neutral on the throttle while the FXO requires more throttle control. If the lap times were down to how easy the cars are to drive, the RB4 would come out on top. Not only is the FXO 5km/h faster on the straights, it also has more grip, giving it the upper hand in (fast) corners.

No, because the RB4 will always have a penalty due to its drivetrain, I don't think the RB4 is inherently "easier" to drive.

Looking at the specs, either the XRT needs to be made lighter, which then will make it faster than the RB4, or the FXO needs to be made (unrealistically) heavier.

Car balancing is a hard thing to accomplish, and there is obviously a reason why they are like this, I doubt its down to poor playtesting, I would say its by design.

Dan,