I was a bit cautous of this as well but penalising him would be inconsistant as massa got away for a similar thing last year in Valancia.
Kimi should of got a drive through or something for his contact with Vettel though imo.
I was a bit cautous of this as well but penalising him would be inconsistant as massa got away for a similar thing last year in Valancia.
Kimi should of got a drive through or something for his contact with Vettel though imo.
Kimi finished Half the race in France last year with a car spitting out burning metal pieces, that is more dangerous then this imo.
I can see why the stewards issued the penalty for the incident, but it wasn't Alonso's fault or really the teams, if they didn't have that stupid wheel covers then there wouldn't be a problem.
You can see in the replay footage of the pit stop the mechanic was checking it and the Lollipop man had already lifted it by the time he was able to react...
Fair enough that they should have told him straight away, but Alonso did spot it and slowed down. There have been worse incidents than this one. Why not suspend Brawn from a race, part of their suspension flew off yesterday and could have killed a driver ... There is absolutely no consistency in these rulings.
Fernando Alonso in a red suit
I see no reason why they wouldn't let him race for them, as long as Renault agrees to it. It'll be very interesting to watch if it happens
You can see in the replay footage of the pit stop the mechanic was checking it and the Lollipop man had already lifted it by the time he was able to react...
Fair enough that they should have told him straight away, but Alonso did spot it and slowed down. There have been worse incidents than this one. Why not suspend Brawn from a race, part of their suspension flew off yesterday and could have killed a driver ... There is absolutely no consistency in these rulings.
Fernando Alonso in a red suit
I see no reason why they wouldn't let him race for them, as long as Renault agrees to it. It'll be very interesting to watch if it happens
Please make an effort to understand the difference between a part failing while on track, and sending a car out onto the track knowing a part will fall off of it. Once a car is out on the track and there is a problem with it then the stewards have to make the decision to black flag it, in the pitlane it's the teams responsibility to send the car out in a condition in which it is fit to race. It's clearly stated in the regulations, if more evidence comes to light and it turns out that Renault either didn't realise the wheel was not fitted correctly or that they did try to tell Alonso about it, then the penalty would be harsh in my opinion, but until then I think it's justified.
I think I missed the last year French GP, but I imagine a tire is more heavier than small bits of metal and will carry more momentum and force on impact? And did they knew? FIA claim Renault knew exactly what was going on but didn't do anything.
The penalty on Renault is harsh and would not have been given without the accidents we've seen in a week. My heart missed a beat when I saw the wheel finally coming off, and I think the stewards had a similar experience.
I don't really see a difference in getting hit by a spring a part of an exhaust system. Both is dangerous.
In my opinion it shows a lack of respect, they were probably more concerned about pleasing sponsors than protecting the lives of their fellow competitors. I'm sure on reflection they will realise that it is also an insult to John Surtees, clearly his death was in vain if people won't learn from it. Renault created a situation in which a similar accident could have occurred, how can you forgive them for that?
As I said, I got no idea what sort of sizes we are talking about here. Besides, mechanical failures and steward not using the black flag properly is different from letting a car with loose wheel on the track.
edit: QS: Just to make it clear, I don't think the penalty was not right and well deserved. But I just think that if it wasn't for Surtees, and the reminder with Massa, they would have escaped the penalty.
Well I didn't know that the Renault team knew the wheel was loose before they sent him out when I first posted, 'scuse my ignorance. 
But still, a sizeable fine and a warning would have been sufficient punishment, suspending people from GPs is a knee jerk reaction, we saw similar things in 1994 after a similarly nasty week.
But still, a sizeable fine and a warning would have been sufficient punishment, suspending people from GPs is a knee jerk reaction, we saw similar things in 1994 after a similarly nasty week.
I agree with ATC on this... If it was something random that happened and even the team didn't know about, then whatever, it's racing and things break on the cars like that but knowing that the wheel is loose and not tell him to park it is just stupid... The penalty may be harsh but they have to do what they have to do to get people to follow the rules and avoid unessecary danger...
I think that Alonso will be replacing Massa next race for his home Grand Prix. Off course Ferrari won't object since they know he's a great driver and I doupt Renault will say anything about it, they'll understand.
I think that Alonso will be replacing Massa next race for his home Grand Prix. Off course Ferrari won't object since they know he's a great driver and I doupt Renault will say anything about it, they'll understand.
It's bull**** 
I don't think that would be "nice", from Alonso OR Ferrari. It's a bit disrespectfull for Massa IMO, the guy is laying there, and they bring Alonso to drive instead of him, it would look like they are trying to replace Massa, you know, Kimi doing a second place, Alonso there... i think all kind of things would go through Massa's head..
I'm pretty sure it will not happen. Bringing someone outside Ferrari would just be a big hassle for the team, new working methods for the driver, new people and everything. Not even to mention possible contract obligations what Ferrari has with their spare drivers or what kind of contract Alonso is with Renault. Plus how would Ferrari feel having a driver from another team racing in the same series driving their car and getting to know it? Not going to happen, if Alonso doesn't already have contract with Ferrari like the Spanish papers would like you to believe.
I'm not saying Renault's penalty is consistent with other rulings am I?
He can always ask Massa... It's not disrespectful imo... Unless everythings done behind his back...
OMG guys seriously we should panic the world might end !
This is paranoia gone too far, it's ridiculous.
There have been plenty of incidents over the years, innumerable incidents, and comparable accidents... hell wheels have fallen off and actually killed people with less resulting sanctions than this incident.
This is an over-reaction because of the Surtees/Massa incidents, the FIA want to be seen to be taking action.
Renault didnt send him out knowing there was a problem, it's quite clear the despatch of Alonso's car was borked, the stop didnt go right. Alonso know immediately because A) He could see it and B) as he described he could feel the vibration.
There was no need to inform the driver the wheel was lose. It was obvious to Alonso, and he even confirmed he knew what was wrong in the mid-race interview.
Renault are not obliged to stop the vehicle because it might become involved in an accident: There is no regulation in F1 that says "If you might have an accident you have to stop racing". To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
Over-reaction. Simple as.
This is paranoia gone too far, it's ridiculous.
There have been plenty of incidents over the years, innumerable incidents, and comparable accidents... hell wheels have fallen off and actually killed people with less resulting sanctions than this incident.
This is an over-reaction because of the Surtees/Massa incidents, the FIA want to be seen to be taking action.
Renault didnt send him out knowing there was a problem, it's quite clear the despatch of Alonso's car was borked, the stop didnt go right. Alonso know immediately because A) He could see it and B) as he described he could feel the vibration.
There was no need to inform the driver the wheel was lose. It was obvious to Alonso, and he even confirmed he knew what was wrong in the mid-race interview.
Renault are not obliged to stop the vehicle because it might become involved in an accident: There is no regulation in F1 that says "If you might have an accident you have to stop racing". To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
Over-reaction. Simple as.
Its unsafe to release a car that's clearly broken though -_-
I agree its an over-reaction but I also agree that it should still be penalized...
I agree its an over-reaction but I also agree that it should still be penalized...
It should definately be penalized but not like this. Just give the team a fine or something, IMO.
I'm sure every driver/team would have done the same as Alonso/Renault.
I'm sure every driver/team would have done the same as Alonso/Renault.
Was the car clearly released in an unsafe state, or was the unsafe state only noticed after he'd started moving? Was the team able to respond via radio (I didn't hear any replies on the broadcast)? If the 'defect' wasn't noticed until after he'd gone, what more could they really do. They weren't going to ask him to pull over if they thought he could get back to the pits, sort the problem and send him back out. The fact that it ultimately fell off doesn't necessarily come to it - all 20 cars might have wheels that fall off, but they are allowed to continue...
The pit guy knew it, he was trying to fix it and never put his arm up but the lollipop man still let Alonso out... It's true that if they didnt know at the moment of the pit it wouldn't be entirely their fault but the guy who was working on putting that wheel on clearly knew it wasn't in properly and didn't put his arm up to let the rest of the crew know he's done therefore its the lollipop mans fault.
But like Zeug said, I think a nasty fine would've been more then enough rather then a suspension...The part they are talking about is the end of the exhaust that broke and was dangling all over the back of the car only being held by what looked like a wire, probably a temperature sensor.
There should be some form of penalty to the team in the way of a fine but to suspend them is silly. In that case Red Bull should be suspended because it was the exact same scenario, the loli-pop man not doing his job correctly. There was a whole pit crew in the pits when Webber had to avoid Kimi, if Kimi had been a little bit closer to the right they'd have touched and probably taken 6/7 mechanics with them.
The team hardly decided they'd delibratley put Alonso out with a wheel that wasn't attached correctly
I don't envy the lollipop man. They need to all use traffic lights soon, and get rid of one man's judgement on everything from the state of refuelling, the state of all four tyre changes, the state of the men clearing sidepods, the cars coming out of the pitlane, and so on. Give each man a button to press when they have finished their job. If they press it again they cancel their 'ok' and the system remains red. You could keep the lollipop man too, but he just responds to the traffic light too.
The whole pit crew work seems highly stressfull to me 
I don't understand what Renault have done wrong here, they didn't deliberately not bother doing up the wheel nut to save time in the pitstop and Alonso slowed to a sensible pace so that when the wheel did come off it didn't fly miles and he kept control of the car. Trying to get back to the pits is just common sense.
The three recent high profile incidents involving single seaters and debris are not as related as people will try to make out, Massa had a truely freak accident, probably the only non-pitstop component to fail and fly out of the back of an F1 car for years and by complete chance it happened to hit him.
Alonso's wheel flying off was a result of a poor pitstop, quite a few wheels fly off cars due to not being fitted correctly during pitstops, normally flying off at much lower speeds and causing less harm than wheels/debris flying about for other reasons.
Poor Henry Surtees was not killed by a freak accident, it was an accident waiting to happen. Everytime cars have a big shunt debris poses a potential risk (and there are far more wheels flying off cars from driver error than pitcrew error), the chance of debris ending up at head height above the track is pretty low, the chance of it hitting a driver is tiny. Cars are crashing more and more now with drivers thinking they're safe, when John Surtees was racing the chance of getting hit by a stray wheel would have been much lower because people simply crashed less, had the guy who went off been racing on a tree lined circuit he wouldn't have been over confident and had an unforced accident in the first place from pushing too hard. The increase in debris and accidents resulting from other cars having avoidable accidents is getting worrying, my mate who races in F4 has had two crashes involving stray wheels coming across the track, one which ripped a corner off his car at Brands Hatch and one which glanced his head at Snetterton (literally leaving tyre marks on his helmet!), both caused by silly car to car contact and neither freak accidents by any stretch of the imagination.
The three recent high profile incidents involving single seaters and debris are not as related as people will try to make out, Massa had a truely freak accident, probably the only non-pitstop component to fail and fly out of the back of an F1 car for years and by complete chance it happened to hit him.
Alonso's wheel flying off was a result of a poor pitstop, quite a few wheels fly off cars due to not being fitted correctly during pitstops, normally flying off at much lower speeds and causing less harm than wheels/debris flying about for other reasons.
Poor Henry Surtees was not killed by a freak accident, it was an accident waiting to happen. Everytime cars have a big shunt debris poses a potential risk (and there are far more wheels flying off cars from driver error than pitcrew error), the chance of debris ending up at head height above the track is pretty low, the chance of it hitting a driver is tiny. Cars are crashing more and more now with drivers thinking they're safe, when John Surtees was racing the chance of getting hit by a stray wheel would have been much lower because people simply crashed less, had the guy who went off been racing on a tree lined circuit he wouldn't have been over confident and had an unforced accident in the first place from pushing too hard. The increase in debris and accidents resulting from other cars having avoidable accidents is getting worrying, my mate who races in F4 has had two crashes involving stray wheels coming across the track, one which ripped a corner off his car at Brands Hatch and one which glanced his head at Snetterton (literally leaving tyre marks on his helmet!), both caused by silly car to car contact and neither freak accidents by any stretch of the imagination.
Right lets take a step back and analysis this correctly.
1) There has been now 2 accidents in 6 days were there have been parts flying off and striking another driver on the head, if there was no reaction from the FIA I would be more concerned about that than an overreaction which in all likely hood will be successful on appeal.
2) The car was not safe when it left the pits, I think any other time regardless of what has happened is a pretty dumb move and worthy of punishment. Maybe the punishment does not fit the crime, but then thats why we have appeal people.
3) Its in Spain and its a Spanish driver, of course there will be a successful appeal
1) There has been now 2 accidents in 6 days were there have been parts flying off and striking another driver on the head, if there was no reaction from the FIA I would be more concerned about that than an overreaction which in all likely hood will be successful on appeal.
2) The car was not safe when it left the pits, I think any other time regardless of what has happened is a pretty dumb move and worthy of punishment. Maybe the punishment does not fit the crime, but then thats why we have appeal people.
3) Its in Spain and its a Spanish driver, of course there will be a successful appeal
Renault suspended from European GP
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