Can we please start a discussion on the differences between hotlap and race setups. I would really like some information about this. Specifically, what do you have to change on a fast (world record) setup to make it good for a longer race. Thanks.

you need to make it easy enough to drive on the limit, for your driving style / ability, for however many laps the race is. For someone in need of asking this question this would probably involve a softening of the rear anti roll bar, to reduce the oversteer.

You then need to adjust the tyre pressure and camber for the best compromise of grip. You probably want the inside of the tyres to heat up to about 10 degrees above 'optimum' for the tyre you've selected, and the outside to get around optimum. This will vary, there will often be a 'cold' side of the car that won't get up to temperature, with a bigger variation between inside and outside temp.

Then adjust brakes if need be to reduce lockups.

You may also want to add some more downforce (depending on the track - but not much) so you can do dogfighting without getting knocked off by loosing air. More downforce is also good when, as we do, chosing alternative racing lines.

actually I forgot to mention that I tend to go with a little less downforce... makes you harder to pass and others easier to pass.

With more downforce, when you get dirty air, isn't there going to be a bigger difference in grip level? If you run with no downforce dirty air isn't nearly as big a deal I thought...

The difference is bigger yes, but that also means you will recover faster. The car is overall more controlable.

Less downforce is good for straights, but this will make you an easier target in turns.

No doubt it depends on driving style / preference, but in any close racing I've been involved in there's no way I'd get a pass on someone in a turn without a mistake first... it's pretty easy to make a car awful wide through turns

I've been racing with opponents doing same times as me aswell as being consintant. Only way to pass is to brake later when you get the chance, and cut him off - higher downforce will defenatly help - lower downforce will either make you go too wide, or slow down too much - in both cases, the opponent will most likely regain his position.

Nothing is more thrilling than outbraking an opponent

Quote from r4ptor :

I've been racing with opponents doing same times as me aswell as being consintant. Only way to pass is to brake later when you get the chance, and cut him off - higher downforce will defenatly help - lower downforce will either make you go too wide, or slow down too much - in both cases, the opponent will most likely regain his position.

Nothing is more thrilling than outbraking an opponent

Well, if you have Blackwood for example, it's better to have a little less downforce than the one you want to overtake. The straight is long enough to get in his slipstream. When you use higher downforce, you need to be close to him already in the chicane (with a big chance of having much understeer), and stay behind him for 3/4 of the straight. Same for KY National.

Aston is different, because there are a lot of slow corners before the straight (so downforce doesnt matter that much) where you can get very close to someone.


About the sets; I'm usually satisfied with the balance of the WR sets, so I don't change anything on the suspension. I only add tyre pressure, and less negative camber. For the faster cars that is.

But for FOX you don't need to change anything. The tyres stay quite good a whole stint with 100% fuel.

Generally speaking WR sets are good if you adjust the pressures & camber to be easier on the tyres, this may involve a castor change too to suite your style and account for the changes of camber. Take out toe-in/out if you can as this just scrubs the tyres needlessly.

Then it's a question of downforce. The key difference between a WR set and a race set is that a race set must be durable, so you are looking to achieve 2 things:

Driveability - if the set is edgy you need to fix it, either by steering or suspension geometry or downforce. A single spin in a 1hr race will probably cost you the chance of a win, it'll cost you more places to spin once than the loss in performance of a tenth or two here and there by making the car more stable.

Wearability - the tyres shouldn't be glowing red after 5 laps, they should be nicely green when you finish or make your planned stop.

The biggest difference between a hotlap and a full race is in the driver, make no mistakes and you're in for a top 6 finish. Make no mistakes and drive quickly and you could win. Make a mistake and you're in damage limitation mode.

Vain's step-by-step-guide:
1. Drive the hotlap-setup for a while. Do you like it, can you anticipate the car's actions? If no, try a different setup. If yes, proceed to 2.
2. Start a singleplayer practice session.
3. Choose a different tyres if necessary (R1 can only be used on the FOX and MRT5 for long races, R2s should be good for bigger cars, some need R3, streetcars always go with Road supers).
4. In the first testdrive, decrease camber by 1° and increase tyre pressure by 20psi. In all following pitstops decrease camber by 0.2° and increase tyre pressure by 7 psi. (Adjust this accordingly using common sense (tm) )
5. Repeat 4 until the innermost and middle tyre-strips are roughly equal in temperature (the shorter the race, the bigger the difference), the outer can be some degrees colder. Increase tyre pressure until the peak temperture is a maximum of 15°C above optimum tyre pressure. If target isn't possible, jump to step 3 and choose a longer lasting tyre (not in the case of road-supers, those always stay).

Since the tyre-life has been increased enourmeously in the last patch it is a good option to allow higher camber. Only temperature is a factor here.

Vain

Quote from Becky Rose :

Driveability - if the set is edgy you need to fix it, either by steering or suspension geometry or downforce. A single spin in a 1hr race will probably cost you the chance of a win, it'll cost you more places to spin once than the loss in performance of a tenth or two here and there by making the car more stable.

one thing I find interesting on this point is accident avoidance. South city with lots of traffic is an obvious example, but I always find the 'edgier' sets work better there because they allow more chance to stick it sideways in a hurry and scrub off speed pointing the right direction, as opposed to plowing into the wall / vehicle.

Darkone55:
Tracks can have a great saying too, yes. But you can't ignore that the setup have to be competitive on turns aswell.

Not all setups for the FOX are good for racing. I have a setup that *will* overheat the tires if driven on, or just above the limit for 4-5 laps on SO Classic.

Quote from Blowtus :

one thing I find interesting on this point is accident avoidance. South city with lots of traffic is an obvious example, but I always find the 'edgier' sets work better there because they allow more chance to stick it sideways in a hurry and scrub off speed pointing the right direction, as opposed to plowing into the wall / vehicle.

Thats probably because of your driving style, because I defenatly don't feel the same way

Quote from r4ptor :

Darkone55:
Tracks can have a great saying too, yes. But you can't ignore that the setup have to be competitive on turns aswell.

True, but you only change wing a little bit offcourse, so it won't make that much difference. As long as the laptimes stay within a few tenths of the "old" set.

Quote from r4ptor :

Not all setups for the FOX are good for racing. I have a setup that *will* overheat the tires if driven on, or just above the limit for 4-5 laps on SO Classic.

Al wr sets from FOX have that, that they start to have red tyres between 5-10 laps. But after that the insides will get greener again.

On R1s 85°C is not overheated. When the tyre peaks below that the tyre will be stone cold by the end of a 60 minutes race.

Vain

Darkone55: I don't understand that because I gave away "my" setup to other racers and they would go like "wow, this setup is tough on the tires".

Vain: Don't know about that - all I know is that near the ending of a 12 lap race, the tires becomes hot enough for me to feel like I'm on ice :P I don't lose control or are close to it, but the red tires do affect lap times greatly.

Quote from r4ptor :

Darkone55: I don't understand that because I gave away "my" setup to other racers and they would go like "wow, this setup is tough on the tires".

Vain: Don't know about that - all I know is that near the ending of a 12 lap race, the tires becomes hot enough for me to feel like I'm on ice :P I don't lose control or are close to it, but the red tires do affect lap times greatly.

Just add some pressure then..

Wow, great discussion guys... There's some really helpful information here. I especially like Vain's step by step guide. Thanks a lot.