Simple poll this, in the final race of the last round of the BTCC at Snetterton, James Nash took his maiden victory, managing to resist pressure from the big names right behind him. Early on in the race, however, he gave a little tap to Collard, spinning him off and the result was Collard getting broadsided by Jelley, and Rob going to hospital.

Now, I don't think the touch was intentional, I think Nash just misjudged the position of the front of his car relative to the back of Collards, and he thought that when he cut back across the track he wouldn't hit him. For that reason, I don't think he should have been disqualified.

However, I think the reason he was DQ'd goes back to the first round of 2009 at Brands, where Johnny Adam did almost the exact same thing to Plato (what a save!), Adam took advantage of this tap on Plato and led the race to the end. I think the BTCC comitee or whoever felt they had to show consistency with these two events, and for that reason decided to DQ James Nash, which was such a shame as I was really pleased for him.

So do you think he should have had his first ever BTCC win taken away from him? Vote, and give a reason if you can be bothered!


Video of the moment, the tap is at about 1:00, and the replays start at about 2:06. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPZj7bK-zLk

It looks like the slightest of misjudgements to me, it's just very unlucky that it ended up that bad. It's a no/minor penalty racing incident imo, certainly not a DQ.

Also, was it just me or was Collard not on the brakes when his car re-entered the track?? Looks it just coasted back on the racing line

I think the stewards will also have seen the way he was driving in the laps leading up the incident. I was standing at the Esses and every time the cars came through you could see and hear Nash hitting Collard's car quite hard on the right-hand part of the Esses, pushing him wide. Nash took advantage of the contact and went for a closing gap; and realised too late that he had to back out.

I think the stewards have set a precident; although in the case of Jonathan Adam at Brands, it was only a 1 place drop rather than a full DQ. I agree that Nash needed some kind of heavy action taken against him because it was a dangerous situation he caused.

Nash's absolute fault there!
He nudges him 3 times before he causes him to spin, and it's a clear pit manouever as you can see nash countersteers and pushes the rear end of the BMW out.
FWD idiot

It's touring cars, I've seen much worse many, many, many, many times and no punishment given at all.

..maybe you can only get away with it if your name is Plato or Neal.

are you allowed to just nudge the rear end of people's cars causing them to go off?
stupid to be honest....

Quote from garph :

It's touring cars, I've seen much worse many, many, many, many times and no punishment given at all.

..maybe you can only get away with it if your name is Plato or Neal.

Your white text: I used to think people who posted that were morons, but as every season of BTCC goes by, I am starting to agree a tiny, tiny bit. However, Plato and Neal haven't caused any big crashes through dangerous driving in quite a few years.

Have you ever seen a BTCC race cause it really doesn't sound like you have.

And of course it wasn't an intentional pit manoeuvre, Collard tried to defend his mistake from the previous turn and Nash tried to take advantage, neither driver wanting to give.

Like I said I've seen much worse with nothing done, that's what makes this penalty such a joke.

EDIT: They are always doing things that they should not be allowed to get away with. Plato on the first laps of the first race at Snetterton for example. Most BTCC drivers race hard but those 2 seems to step over the line the most.

Quote from garph :

Have you ever seen a BTCC race cause it really doesn't sound like you have.

.

I hope you're talking to Harjun!

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I hope you're talking to Harjun!

Yes. You're the EDIT

Well it didn't look like Nash did it with any malicious intent, looks like it was just a misjudgement from both of them, Nash went for a gap that wasn't quite there and Collard tried to block thinking he was still ahead but Nash had a slight overlap, sometimes it can be hard to judge. And so no I don't think Nash should have the win taken away.

To be honest if the accident caused a driver to need medical attention then they should have red flagged the race, then results would have been taken from the previous lap and Collard would have won. The safety car was a bit dangrous too, lucky nobody rear ended anyone else, reminds me of WTCC Pau earlier this year which was laughable.

Yeah the SC reminded me of that WTCC incident..

If it was red flagged Collard would've been removed from the results as he was the cause of the stoppage.

The problem with that footage regards the SC is that you don't see Turkington's onboard, where the SC board and yellow flag is out by the time the leader comes across the line, so O'Neill should've been aware of it, given that ITV had their SC graphic up in the top corner (so it would be on the timing screens and teams should then radio their drivers), though, perhaps Nash did slow down a bit much.

Quote from 5haz :

To be honest if the accident caused a driver to need medical attention then they should have red flagged the race, then results would have been taken from the previous lap and Collard would have won.

At the time, Collard got out of the car on his own and walked off all by himself. He said after coming out of hospital that at that moment, the adrenalin was just getting him through and numbing the pain, it wasn't until a little while after that his ribs or whatever were seriously hurting.

If they had red-flagged it, they wouldn't have taken that as a result as it was still quite early on. I think the race has to have completed at least 75% race distance for a result to be called if it's red flagged, although I may be wrong on the exact percentage.

From the replay of the incident looking from the back of Collard's car, you can see that the contact wasn't made when Collard came across to defend, it was when Nash went back to the other side after being blocked by Collard. It was Nash's fault, no question, although I don't think he meant it.

Indeed I think it is three quarter distance, I didn't see the lap counter until I watched the video again, and it was only about 4 or 5 laps in.

Unless the accident is so severe that it takes ages to clear up and take care of injured drivers, then the race can run out of time and be cut short I think? Or I have even seen the race result be declared void after a very serious accident stopped the racing for a long time.

With regards to the safety car, I don't think they saw the board until it was shown three-quarters of the way down the pitwall, at which time Nash probably saw the actual safety car itself and slammed on the anchors. O'Neil's view was probably blocked by Turkington of the safety car coming out and it's very easy to miss signs / flags when you're going along at full chat. The onboard from Turkington's car showed O'Neil hitting the back of him, before spearing off towards the barriers. He did very well not to give the armco a wack.

I was wondering, under those circumstances as O'Neil lost a few places after the SC was out, is he allowed to re-pass and get back to his original position? As I saw him sitting a few places back for a while...?

It's just another incident that shows what a joke BTCC has become lately. Yes, it's Nash's fault, IMO.

Quote from Minimaxman :

I was wondering, under those circumstances as O'Neil lost a few places after the SC was out, is he allowed to re-pass and get back to his original position? As I saw him sitting a few places back for a while...?

He retook his place, so it seems it is allowed.

I've not read the thread, I just watched the video though and it's my view the contact occurs after the lead car (Rob Collard) executes a defensive blocking maneuvre. I would cite Collard as at fault and issue no penalty.

However I would DQ and issue a licence endorcement to O'Neil for loosing control under yellow flag conditions.

Where could Jame's go to be honest, it was partly Jame's fault, he took the chance for a move.. You could see that collard knew.. He slightly moved to the right and james Took him out..

Collard is always in a accident

And O'Neil had no decision to do what he done as Basically ALL the drivers said the SC sign came out too late.

Atleast he didnt decide just to go straight on and do a big contact crash with turkington.

Quote from Becky Rose :

However I would DQ and issue a licence endorcement to O'Neil for loosing control under yellow flag conditions.

Naw, the yellows came out very late; later replays show no yellow flags until the start finish line and even those were late.

They shouldn't fiddle with the race result base on steward decision, cos it will just turn touring car racing into formula 1...BTCC is about the last place where people can just race to the flag, take a look at the time sheet and accept the result as it is.

No way, this is an issue which got me absolutely miffed, it was clearly Collards fault as Nash was on the inside and Collard still insisted on moving over and over and over until the inevitable happened. As James said why should he lift off? he had another car right up behind him so he would have ended up in the same situation as Collard did. BTCC is so close these things happen and if it does and a car gets wrecked then its tough tits tbh. If they dont like it then they can piss off to another series with no action and no coverage and see where that gets them.

On the subject of O'neill, that was the safety car / race control's fault for making the safety car come out so damn late. Was good to see that Turkington understood the collision couldnt be avoided when a safety car comes out doing about 80mph in front of a pack of cars that are doing about 120mph - 130mph.

Last year this sort of thing would have been just overlooked and maybe a slap on the wrists but nothing more (which is right as BTCC is so close). But i dont know whether they've got a new clerk of the course or whether he's had a complete transformation because he's become a complete tosser.

Nope, if Plato or Neal did that they would consider it a clean pass.

Had to watch twice before i clearly see the BMW move over to block the chevy.