Has anyone heard of this? It sounds a bit like V1, just based in the real-world and they charge a lot (in my opinion). Basically it costs nearly 7k + VAT to do some laps in a saloon car. The best drivers go into a final, with the prize being a Formula BMW drive for next season with Raikkonen Robertson Racing. By my rudimentary calculations they have raised enough money from entry’s to fund the seat, but what I find more worrying is their plans for the winning driver’s future. In short, it may involve giving up 50% of your future earnings, so with the 50% tax rate in this fine kingdom of ours you wouldn't be left with that much. I know a young racing driver was on Dragon’s Den (a programme where investors judge people then decide if they want to invest in them) with a similar idea, plus Lewis Hamilton pondered a similar plan after his first year in F1 but neither example lead to anything.

Hah, no thats ridiculous, the last thing you want to do in racing is tie yourself to a particular organisation or team, who many not deliver, but leave you with no choice but to give them your money.

Quote from carey :

Yeah, you’re much better off with an organisation such as the racing steps foundation, that you can remove yourself from although I can see the appeal of these initiatives (for those who don’t have previous racing successes).

To get noticed by the RSF you need to be spending sh1t loads of cash in karting or cars. (though I believe they may have picked a gem in Jake Dennis)

Scholarships are better. Like what Mazda is doing with Skip Barber.

Not only that but you get more money. For winning the Skippy F2000 championship in the US, which costs 28k for a full national season, you get $400,000 to race in Star Mazda. Not only does that series have national TV coverage, but it costs twice as much as Formula BMW. And it has an $800,000 prize for the winner to race Atlantics. Plus it ensures that only champions move on.

The best way is to start at the bottom and have fun, learn and gain experience and speed, then have a few lucky breaks and get noticed, if you don't get noticed, carry on having fun. Either way, you get to go racing and enjoy yourself.

In an ideal world anyway. :rolleyes:

Quote from 5haz :

In an ideal world anyway. :rolleyes:

Nah, I think it pretty much works in the real world too. You can race on any budget, be it a couple hundred bucks for a season of indoor karting or hundreds of thousands to run a semipro series like Koni Challenge or Star Mazda.

I think people focus too much on trying to advance, end up biting off more than they can chew (financially or skill wise), and end up falling off the radar.

I'm nearly 20 years old, I could've started racing in SCCA or even lower levels of Grand Am or IMSA, but I chose to start in a school kart series, because even though I'm too old for it, I recognized that if I was going to get anywhere at all I needed a springboard.

Quote from carey :

Well isn't that the point, to pick drivers that have already made sacrifices and reward them?

Well the drivers don't make the 'sacrifices' the dads/mums do

Quote from MadCat360 :

Not only that but you get more money. For winning the Skippy F2000 championship in the US, which costs 28k for a full national season, you get $400,000 to race in Star Mazda. Not only does that series have national TV coverage, but it costs twice as much as Formula BMW. And it has an $800,000 prize for the winner to race Atlantics. Plus it ensures that only champions move on.

Well it doesn't cost $28k I can assure you. The entry might be that but you have all the hidden costs like testing, nutritionists, fitness instructors, coaches etc... which no doubt the best drivers will have, and no doubt will most likely take the prize.

Look at tennis. A racket and shoes can cost a maximum of £500 but to get to the top you need to invest around £100-£200k a year to get good.

Quote from carey :

Apparently Lewis Hamilton gave back his Playstation when he was little (so he could get the helmet he wanted). I never had a Playstation to return

Lewis's parents (probably) spent a few hundred quid on a Playstation. To get a helmet he returned it, probably for a trade in price of, say, £100. So by having that Playstation he (or his parents) LOST £100.

By not having a Playstation you are now £100 better off in your career than Lewis was. I expect to see you in F1 in two years.

Adam Christodoulou (in fact either of the Christodoulou brothers) won't get to F1. Riki is better, and I don't think he's got what it takes in terms of talent, even if he has the funding. Besides, if you're 'watching' him, why do you think he's in a Mazda series when I believe he's in FR2000?

Quote from Intrepid :

Well it doesn't cost $28k I can assure you. The entry might be that but you have all the hidden costs like testing, nutritionists, fitness instructors, coaches etc... which no doubt the best drivers will have, and no doubt will most likely take the prize.

Look at tennis. A racket and shoes can cost a maximum of £500 but to get to the top you need to invest around £100-£200k a year to get good.

It's about 19k for just the races but then you add in for Friday practice and any telemetry sessions. It's a school series so you always have access to 4 or more coaches. Then of course crash damage. It used to be 50k but they went to a double-header format. 14 races over 7 weekends.

Quote from carey :

28k isn’t exactly chicken feed (as the mayor of London calls large sums of money).

In the US it is. Most of our racing is done out of our own pockets. Last year a guy I know paid 800,000 out of pocket for an Indy Lights ride. You can't race in the US without having money. Sponsorship is few and far between out here. Most of the sponsorship you see, even in the professional road racing series', is from family backing.

Quote from carey :

A commentator on Motorsport UK reckons he's in contact with Adam and that he's winning in the Mazda series. It's funny what you say about Riki, because I agree with you, even though Adam won Formula Renault UK in a thoroughly entertaining way.

He's 2nd in the points, he's got 2 poles and 2 wins, 6 podiums.

http://starmazda.com/results/2009/2009-starmazdapoints.pdf

Conor Daly is 3rd, he won the Skippy F2000 championship last year. He went from 20-something to the podium at Sebring.

Star Mazda's always had good racing, but the VIR weekend was a catastrophe (they air the races delayed). It was a timed race for about 40 minutes -1hour I think, and they only did like 16 laps. There were 4 cautions in the first 10 laps... lots of crashing.

Quote from carey :

I was actually a bit surprised that Adam made the move to the states. Most European drivers give single seaters in Europe a little longer, then do a Mike Conway (who moved to Indycar this year), for the money if it isn't really happening in an F1 feeder series.

I'm puzzled as well. I think it's because European sponsors don't see the US as being a useless market, like US sponsors seem to think about Europe, sadly. Usually drivers do a couple seasons in F3 or one of the Renaults, which is cheaper than Indy Lights/Toyota Atlantics and just as fast, then come over to the US when they land good sponsors. The thing about the US is, it's cheap (relatively) at the top but expensive down low for Formula cars.

Formula 2 is bang for the buck.

Quote from carey :

Well it’s run by Jonathan Palmer’s company (that’s behind the Palmer-Audi series) but I don’t know if it’s the best place for a young driver to be. The prize for the winner’s a Williams F1 test (plus super licences for the top four drivers I believe), but the incident involving Henry Surtees proved the dangers of racing at older venues with, very little in the way of run-off areas.

No, it proves nothing other then a wheel can go on a track.

GP2 races in monaco, is that better?

Quote from carey :

With a bigger run off the cars probably would have all been through before it bounced back onto the track.

Monaco's notoriously dangerous (what about the world series race many years back when a marshal was hit by a car).

So whats your point about Formula 2?

Ban street races and tracks with barriers close to the track?

Formula 2 provides a Superlicence and a test drive with an F1 team for the champion, which would bascally put it in line with GP2 and Renault world series.

power and speed of the machines is irrellevent.

Quote from Mustafur :

Formula 2 provides a Superlicence and a test drive with an F1 team for the champion, which would bascally put it in line with GP2 and Renault world series.

F2's goal is to propel drivers to F1, not its 'rival' GP2 series.

Quote from carey :

Well FPA has had a reputation of being for gentleman drivers and it remains to be seen what opportunities (in terms of Formula 1) appear for the eventual F2 champion and runner ups.?

It's still the first season you can't gain any conclusions.

Quote :

You brought up street courses, my point’s that other more prestigious championships, go to more modern venue’s and that’s a choice that has to be taken into consideration (although I know with young Surtees it was mainly a financial one).

All you said is, its dangerous due to most of there tracks being run on ones with barely any run off. but you fail to realise that other series including F1 run on extremely tight street circuits, with no run off at all what so ever.

Quote :

Did you not read my post? I mentioned that, plus GP2 has until last year had its champions (and some runner-ups) progress to F1. ?

I do not recall you saying this.

Quote :

Doesn’t F2 use 1.8L engines, when GP2 utilises 4 litre V8’s. Is that really irrelevant?

The Formula 2s have turbo chargers and are much faster then Formula 3 which puts them in close range to GP2.

btw how many drivers do you think have gotten to F1 just from F3?

GP2 hasn't produced the talent in recent years and last year couldn't produce anyone really.

Quote from carey :

I remember Danica did Formula Ford many moons ago.

Adam Carolla did an interview with her, she did that out of her own pocket apparently, and a little bit of sponsorship from a family friend. It's definitely the place to go for young drivers but the exchange rate will kill most normal people.

Quote from carey :

Well there’s a lot more options in Europe, but in terms of feeder series' they aren’t that cheap:
Formula Palmer Audi; 55k
Formula Ford; 110k+
Formula BMW Europe; 200k (since last year as it used to be 100k for the UK champ‘)
Formula 2; 310k (there's one for you in dollars)
Formula Renault UK; 300k
Formula 3; 500k+
GP3 (from next year); 600k (in euros)
World series by Renault; a million-ish
GP2; 1.3 million (again I think in euros)

Man, if I could do something like FPA in the US for that kind of money...

Still, everything up to GP3 is cheaper than the US. Like I said, Star Mazda is about 400k, Atlantics are about 800k, and Indy Lights are generally 1 million+. One of my karting friends was offered a Formula BMW ride and they wanted 200k as well. Needless to say he didn't have the cash! But Formula BMW in America is really bad... small grids, abysmal TV coverage, and a high cost for what it is.

Quote from carey :

Turbo’s where banned in the late eighties in Formula 1 so I don‘t know having the power high up in the revs is good preparation for F1.

Because F1 engines have the power high up?

Quote from carey :

No, maybe when they where V10’s, but the V8’s are rev limited (and continually so) and are more about acceleration.

What on earth are you on about?!!!!!!

Quote from carey :

Let’s list them:
2005 champ’ Nico Rosburg earned a race seat with Williams
2006 champ’ Lewis Hamilton earned a race seat with McLaren (although that was fairly likely anyway).
2007 champ’ Timo Glock earned a testing role with BMW Sauber but was then released for a race seat with Toyota (although he had previous F1 experience).
Other graduates:
Heikki Kovalainen (2005 runner-up) earned a Renault race seat after a year testing with them.
Nelson Piquet Jnr. (with experience in GP2/A1GP) took this seat and the Finn ended up at McLaren.
Sebastian Buemi earned a 2009 Toro Rosso race seat after racing in GP2.
Drivers that failed to graduate:
2008 champ' Georgio Pantano failed to make the step up because he had raced in F1 before and was older than the other graduates.

hhMM...

GP2 doesn't produce drivers. All it does is put drivers in the face of F1 team bosses who seem to have a lack of faith in other classes. Let's not forget Lewis Hamilton was signed way back when he was 13 and NOT competing in GP2. It didn't even exist then.

IMO a good driver is a good driver, and to look at one class as the feeder is naive. So many factors go into being quick in cars other than pure talent and speed. You can literally buy yourself a good drive, and get enough seat time to be competitive. This is the reason why F1 teams look at drivers from the age of 8. The whole system is a nightmare from the point of of a team boss.

Quote from carey :

Naïve? I hate to say it but you’re possibly being so and the evidence’s in your own statement. Formula BMW has limited testing, so Vettel’s achievements in this series’ even more outstanding,

lol You think Vettel wasn't testing shit loads before he put his name on the entry form? I heard on good authority he had a lot of money spent on him before he started actually racing the cars.

Quote from carey :

F1 cars used to do 210mph, with the V10's, pumping out 900bhp+ but when the V8's came in the cars where quicker out of the corners (but not in terms of top-speed).

You REALLY don't know what you're talking about do you?!!!!!!!

Quote from carey :

F1 cars used to do 210mph, with the V10's, pumping out 900bhp+ but when the V8's came in the cars where quicker out of the corners (but not in terms of top-speed).

Nah, V10s had more power and torque, therefore better acceleration.

Perhaps the V8 cars may be quicker through a corner, but thats more likely to be the result of advances in aerodynamics and the reitroduction of slicks, it's hard to tell.