Quote from Tomhah :

You have not thought of that teams can have slower and inexperienced drivers, have you? No, you havent.

CoRe Racing does not use any proes in GTAL (if we even is gonna drive). That will be FAR AWAY from our points, and of course, CoRe Racing would never use any proes in an amateur league for winning. If we are gonna have a team in GTAL, its gonna be for our inexperienced drivers, who has barerly done any endurance racing. The results here is not important for us, as long as the drivers get experience. Im talking from my own point of view, but NONE would allow drivers like Phil Diaz, Nolan Scott or Rik De Jong in GTAL, as they have a lot of experience, and has done a lot of endurance races. But CoRe Racing does also have talents, and drivers who DONT have much experience in endurance racing (if at all), like Lennart De Jong, Yannick and Roland maybe. (Roland has done ONE race in MoE, where he finished 15th). Kenneth is soon or already ready for IGTC/MoE, since he has now tried to do as many endurance races as possible.

etc etc etc... The list goes on. Lets take an example for your team. Lets say you have one driver who has done one race in IGTC, and he is one of the drivers you want to use for GTAL, as he wont have the chance to drive in IGTC. Should he just drop endurance racing then? Or maybe he will even go as far as leaving your team, because your team can not offer what he wants.


bah... This was a lot of writing, and its very bad formated, but anyway. I hope I didnt do tooo many mistakes/write something I wasnt suppose to

Thats ok for me if you say CoRe Racing didn`t use pro drivers at GTAL that`s what I mean with gentleman agreement.

exactly damion. I mean... None of the top teams will ever (as far as I know them :P) put in a super-team, or their best drivers in GTAL. They most probably pick the unexperienced ones. But of course we need a rule for it. I have written some ideas in my other posts, so dont worry, Im not gonna write them agian :P

Discussing about nothing very important to this league... stop thinking good for you and your friends, start think about everyone and good for everyone... i dont like your examples on one person like Kenneth or another your friend or your team, just think bout good for everyone... damn :|

I agree that there should be a rule that specifies what your version of "amateur" is exactly. CoRe has made several additions to the team lately with drivers that show good talent now and the potential to develop into fine racers. We've targeted series like this as a way to get these developing drivers the chance to race in a quality endurance series that is well-run. This experience will allow them to not only develop race skill, but will also encourage the development of the type of mentality that you need for endurance racing specificially. Perhaps something that needs to be looked at is that if a team finishes Top-3 for the season, then those drivers that took part in that effort are no longer eligible for GTAL.

I'm real big on the "gentlemens' agreement" thing, but being a league admin myself, I think that there must be a concise and throrough rule to make sure that a team that chooses to enter must do so with drivers of the type that this series is expecting.

Quote from luki97 :

... stop thinking good for you and your friends, start think about everyone and good for everyone...

Word

Quote from banshee56 :

I'm real big on the "gentlemens' agreement" thing, but being a league admin myself, I think that there must be a concise and throrough rule to make sure that a team that chooses to enter must do so with drivers of the type that this series is expecting.

Gentlemans agreement will not work imo, too vague, imprecise and open to abuse. An exact rule is required, as you stated.

As someone who helped formulate the idea of GTAL to begin with--as a feeder to IGTC/MoE and a place where teams or drivers who are not yet ready for those series can gain experience--I was consulted by Trekker during the first season when it became clear that the "no IGTC/MoE drivers" rule, as originally formulated, was a problem.

My suggestion, and one I still think is the best solution, is this:

Any team that starts the GTAL season with a roster that does not include drivers with IGTC/MoE experience can complete the entire season with that roster, whether the drivers on the roster subsequently race in IGTC/MoE or not.

New drivers with pre-existing IGTC/MoE experience obviously could not be added.

It's simple, it's clear-cut, and it's fair.

Quote from luki97 :

Discussing about nothing very important to this league... stop thinking good for you and your friends, start think about everyone and good for everyone... i dont like your examples on one person like Kenneth or another your friend or your team, just think bout good for everyone... damn :|

tell me, where the hell have I thought of myself and my team here? I have only thought about drivers future, as Im writing as a neautral.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Any team that starts the GTAL season with a roster that does not include drivers with IGTC/MoE experience can complete the entire season with that roster, whether the drivers on the roster subsequently race in IGTC/MoE or not.

New drivers with pre-existing IGTC/MoE experience obviously could not be added.

It's simple, it's clear-cut, and it's fair.

I add my opinion to that:

If team that starts the GTAL season with a roster it means they accept league rules and dont do any problems to admins with that...

Quote from Tomhah :

tell me, where the hell have I thought of myself and my team here? I have only thought about drivers future, as Im writing as a neautral.

For example sometimes when the season is beginning when kenneth cant start here... but its not important at the moment who do sometning some time ago, lets do something now good for everyone drivers (that experienced a little and that totally unexperienced)

Quote from luki97 :

I add my opinion to that:

If team that starts the GTAL season with a rooster it means they accept league rules and dont do any problems to admins with that...

The thought of a Rhode Island Red behind the wheel, crowing angrily at the aliens who managed to find their way into the GTAL was good for a good 15 second belly laugh.

What exactly is this argument about?

IMO this thread is also a good example of that we´re these days are in need of some more "Quality" GTR Endu-Leagues. I hope we´ll see some more soon.

It´s a good thread and I´m convinced that the new GTAL admins will find the best way of treating semi-pro´s in their league.

So, I've got a provisional rulebook done up that will be circulated between me and the others that I will be using to check it in NDR to set up this next GTAL season. Once they have read it and submitted their thoughts and I update it to include them once we've discussed it, the provisional rules will be posted here for a final review before being made official at all.

We still welcome your input on what you think so far, keeping in mind, we've got a provisional working of how we're going ot handle IGTC/MoE drivers, and we'd quite like any other input.

Also, when we do the official whiz-bang "IT'S HEEEEREEEE!" for 2010 season, we will in all likelihood request this section be moved into the NDR black hole in this section, so it's with the rest of our stuff. But that won't be for a while, so don't worry for now.

Just a bit of a "Status Update"

Thanks!
deko

Attached here is a provisional rulebook. Please provide comments about what you see in this document. Also feel free to point out clerical errors (e.g. typos or bad section references).

The book is attached as a pdf.

A rule that we internally discussed that we wish to receive public comment on before including it. Quoted from our discussion: "The person who sets the team's fastest lap during qualification must do at least 1 racing lap in the race, except in extraordinary circumstances where the Admin team have been informed"

Your comments are requested on this, and others. Happy reading !

d

Quote :

VII. Qualification Procedure

2. A maximum of two (2) drivers from a team may take part in the two sessions.
There shall be only one driver per team on course at any given time.

The "A" is in bold and should not be in bold. So far no other errors spotted.

Quote from GianniC :

The "A" is in bold and should not be in bold. So far no other errors spotted.

I was getting annoyed that the app was bolding every new line against my will, and forgot to change that one. :P

d

Comments

V.5 - Might be an idea to attach the NDR sporting code for name formats so all the rules and regs are in one document?

VII - Like the quali format change, good one. Would definately stick with the no shift P or shift S though.

IX.2 - I liked the restriction on the number of driver changes. In the final race of last season it brought some more strategy into play.

XIX.1 - Mandatory use of IRC? Hmmm, not keen on this at all. As a team of 3 drivers, its quite possible only two of us will be available for any given event. The other person not driving is watching the trackers/LFS remote etc and passing this info. to the driver on TS. The mandatory use of IRC will make this impossible and hamper our driver.

General

Having 2nd thoughts about the safety car tbh. Is it really necessary? Its not like we have stewards to injure or anything and may just make for an unneccesarily close field.

Is there a rule to prohibit changing the drivers side, or did I miss that?

Is there a rule to prohibit using tools/editors which change the car handling/mechanics, or did I miss that?

Sounds like a good compromise on the IGTC/MoE thing.

Good one chaps

ps - re: your rule for the quali driver doing a race stint, yes I think that should be so (wherever possible)

The SC adds excitement to what can quite possibly be a very dull race, as if an incident occurs, the pack is bunched up. See the LFSBC & NDRC final round broadcast to see what im on about, a SC was called with about 15 minutes to go, and we had a 1 lap dash to the line, brilliant racing

The driver change restriction IMO stopped people risking longer stints and 1 less pitstop. Although at most rounds it wouldn't have been possible, it would of been exciting to see people try.

I agree with the hardcore quali to a certain extent. I believe drivers should be allowed to shift p or shift s, but only from a pitbox so it dosen't look as silly as a car just dissapearing from the middle of the road.

For IRC, you just need someone in there really. I was in there for the ICON team in the recent IGTC race, but really I was only checking there every 5 mins or so when I got bored of reading the forums. It's only for the very unlikely occasion that we need to yell at your team for lag/wrecking people or things. Deko would probably say it in server too anyways.

AFAIK we don't care what driver side you use, and I'm 99.99% sure there's something in the sporting code about hacks and stuff

O Hai ! Although we need to add something about VOB mods.





or Anti-Lock Braking systems. These are established in the individual series rules.

Quote from Wilko868 :

The SC adds excitement to what can quite possibly be a very dull race, as if an incident occurs, the pack is bunched up. See the LFSBC & NDRC final round broadcast to see what im on about, a SC was called with about 15 minutes to go, and we had a 1 lap dash to the line, brilliant racing

The driver change restriction IMO stopped people risking longer stints and 1 less pitstop. Although at most rounds it wouldn't have been possible, it would of been exciting to see people try.

I agree with the hardcore quali to a certain extent. I believe drivers should be allowed to shift p or shift s, but only from a pitbox so it dosen't look as silly as a car just dissapearing from the middle of the road.

Safety car, a bit artificial imo. Didn't need one for an exciting end to a couple of last seasons GTAL races.

I still think in shift P or S should be utterly banned unless so directed by race admin. It has no place in a serious league.

Quote from J@tko :

For IRC, you just need someone in there really. I was in there for the ICON team in the recent IGTC race, but really I was only checking there every 5 mins or so when I got bored of reading the forums. It's only for the very unlikely occasion that we need to yell at your team for lag/wrecking people or things. Deko would probably say it in server too anyways.

AFAIK we don't care what driver side you use, and I'm 99.99% sure there's something in the sporting code about hacks and stuff

I've never used IRC and know nothing about it, but assumed it would prohibit me from being on TS (and therefore communicating with our driver) at the same time? My point was, that if there are only two of us...

Driver sides, yes choose either. But stick with it thereafter, no changing race to race.

Cheers for quick replies

-

Quote :

XI.Pit Lane
1. During green flag conditions, the pit lane shall remain open and pits tops may be made freely.
a. The entry lane as marked by the yellow or white line is a guideline to which no penalty will be enforced for cutting. Exceptions may be listed on certain courses in the Drivers’ Briefing thread prior to a round.
b. You may use any currently open pit stall for your pitstop. Travel to the
furthest stall down to reduce risk of collisions in pit lane.
c. Do not re-enter the track until the yellow or white line ends, or other further markings by race administration. Crossing this line may result in a drivethrough penalty.

Can this be cleared up please ? I have my idea of what it means, but somehow I find it a bit unclear mentioned (as being new to such strict and official regulations :razz.

-

Quote :

I still think in shift P or S should be utterly banned unless so directed by race admin. It has no place in a serious league.

I agree, if you get stuck or you crash your car so badly that you can't return to the pits for repairs (once in pitlane shift+p can be used of course) then your qualify session ends.

-
Is the mandatory use of IRC really required ? I know of future to come situations where in my team only the racer will be online at given moments due to real life issues for the other racers which can not be active behind the computer.

-

Quote :

VII. Qualification Procedure
1. Each race weekend shall have two qualifying sessions. The fastest time of the
two sessions will be taken to set the grid.
a. Session One shall be held from 20:00 UTC on the Sunday Preceding the race.
and shall run for sixty (60) minutes.
b. Session Two shall be held from 20:00 UTC on the Friday preceding the race
and shall run for forty-five (45) minutes.
2. A maximum of two (2) drivers from a team may take part in the two sessions.
There shall be only one driver per team on course at any given time.
3. During qualifying, teams may tele-pit or spectate at will and rejoin the session.
4. There is no limit to the amount of laps that may be driven during qualification.

What's the motivation behind having the qualify on two different dates ? Why can't it be done on race day itself (eg. like in IGTC) ?

-
Is doing both qualify sessions mandatory ? Are there penalties for missing a session ?

Sincerely,

It is very similar to MoE. You can attend both, one or no sessions. Your best time of the two sessions is your qualifying lap. If you do not attend the sessions, you start from the back.

Thats how it works as far as I am aware.

Regarding the Blend lines, the first bold section regards pit entry, the second relates to pit exit.

IRC is there so that we can get into contact with you. You will only be penalised if we need to contact you and no-one is avaliabe. You have the choice of putting a man in there or not, your risk. I had IRC and TS running for the IGTC round just to show that we had a representitive until Jackson came, it still works, although you clearly can't send or recieve messages.

Why would IRC conflict with vent of teamspeak? :/

I'll give those rules a look when I get the chance

Quote from GianniC :

What's the motivation behind having the qualify on two different dates ? Why can't it be done on race day itself (eg. like in IGTC) ?

-
Is doing both qualify sessions mandatory ? Are there penalties for missing a session ?

MoE have quali on seperate dates. My idea was to have one a bit before a la MoE, then have the second one just before, a la IGTC, but deko wasn't keen on that...

And I think we agreed that you can do either session, or both - it's up to you. I can't remember if we said if the same person should do both qualis, but I would think you'd be allowed to have two different people do the different quali sessions

Quote from Gil07 :

Why would IRC conflict with vent of teamspeak? :/

I'll give those rules a look when I get the chance

I don't think he knows what IRC is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC - it's like a massive MSN conversation

And if you're really cool like me, you can have Vent and TS open at the same time with the same PTT button - Falke got very confused on Saturday night

Quote from Wilko868 :

Regarding the Blend lines, the first bold section regards pit entry, the second relates to pit exit.

That's what I was thinking, though I just asked to get it clear.
Thank you also (all) for clearing up the rest. I don't have any other questions or remarks standing so far.

Perhaps... it would be useful to do a little "test" event before Race 1 of the new season ? Get through the possible options; a red flag, a race start, getting back in formation behind a SC, ... ?