- I hate it, but I can't do anything about it, so, meh. I'd rather have them "original" (by that I mean "not having loudness"), but I still think I can't do anything about it.
- Of course I do. There's a huge difference in sound quality.
- No, actually I think very few don't, at least nowadays. Maybe a few years ago they didn't have, though.
- Not really.
Even media players have options to reproduce the songs adding up loudness in the run, but since all songs (or most of them) already have them, the effect you can enable on media players is not noticeable anymore.
As someone who got involved in the campaign to get Death Magnetic remastered (it was never going to happen, but spreading awareness of the "Loudness War" was certainly achieved) I despise what producers/record company's are doing.
Taking Death Magnetic as an example.... what is the point of using multi millon dollar equipment and spending a small fortune on recording, only to have the mix brickwalled at the final mastering stage, just so it has some 'punch' on shitty iPods/mp3 players? It sounded absolutely horrific on high end equipment.
It's catering to the lowest common denominator, and leaving real music lovers with even half decent Hi-Fi gear with a hugely inferior product.
I cant believe it when people say they don't hear it when mixes are brickwalled. They really need to get their hearing checked.
I will always download albums first these day before even considering buying the CD after the Death Magnetic fiasco. There are a lot of examples of brickwalled mixes, but Death Magnetic was the worst offender I've ever heard.
Just watched the 2nd video in the OP, and wow that actually sucks ass.
I never listen to music on full volume anyway, so I don't understand that you throw quality in the dump just to get the volume up to an unenjoyable level..
I hate the whole loudness trend in music mastering these days. I would much rather listen to music that is unmastered than over-mastered. There is a very fine line though between a fantastic sound and something that's one step too far, it is a difficult balancing act.
Now that I've been made aware (not an audiophile), I hate this! Such a stupid thing to do.
My dad, who is an audiophile, says they do it to make it sound "better" on the radio and get people to buy the CD. I kinda get that - radio quality sucks anyway, but why do it on the CD?!
I showed this to my brother and he got pretty pissed because the drums got washed out in a lot of his favorite songs (and he's a drummer). He's reconsidering his music choices.
I am reconsidering as well too. A lot of the rock songs I have are "overloud" and I actually end up turning the volume up more (or tweaking the EQ) to hear more of the punchiness, more of the treble, more of the dynamics but it's really no good because at that point, my music is unbearably loud.
It's like these studios don't think we have volume controls or something.
To get a better understanding of how bad Death Magnetic is mastered anyone with the retail CD should download one of these versions of the tracks (right click>save as) http://exit-reality.com/DMIII_WAV/
then compare them to the retail CD versions.
The last half of The Day That Never Comes is a great example (shit song but a perfect example of terrible mastering Vs good)
Yes, you will need to turn the volume up on the remixed versions so it sounds as loud as the CD, but the dynamic range is on a whole different level with the new mixes. It sounds fantastic compared to the original.
There are a couple of clicks and skips on a few of the tracks that are being sorted out for a final release of the remix, so it's not yet perfect, but it'll give you the gist of what a difference decent mixing/mastering can make.
What is your take on this? Don't care? Loathe it to death?
I don't like it, but there is nothing I can do.
Do you notice the difference in sound "quality"?
A little bit
Do you know songs that actually don't have this "loudness"?
I don't
Does it change the way you buy/listen to songs?
Since I'm Spanish I don't buy music. If I download a song and it sounds bad I keep downloading it until I get the right one. If all of them suck I just keep one, less is nothing
it would help if those who complain about the loudness war would listen to music that had any dynamic worth mentioning to begin with... ie not metalica or other nonsense with dynamics way lower than 3db
I'm using Death Magnetic as an example because it's probably the highest profile recent album that suffers from this trend.
The example I've linked to shows the problem perfectly. It may not have the dynamics of other music, but the difference between the retail CD and the alternate mix is night and day dynamically.
It may be "nonsense" to you, but it's a perfect example that the layman with the CD can hear for themselves right now. It highlights the problem better than any Youtube vid can.
Feel free to either post your own examples with some "proper" dynamic music, or butt out if you have nothing useful to contribute to the discussion.
I haven't heard of this before (maybe because I don't buy very much super modern/commercial music) but it does indeed sound like a problem. What is the reason for it again? Is it to sound louder next to another song played before/after it on the radio, or for kids who can't find the volume control on their iPods? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me- even on the compressed youtube videos the difference is as obvious as day and night, the normalised version sounds like total trash, how is that going to help sell the music?
In fairness it is a bit silly and is rather pedantic. But it is true that listening to a compressed song isn't as nice as listening to a richer dynamic track.
I'm going to blame the Mp3 players here (:geezer and the effect they're having on a whole generation growing up with compressed music. Are most kids going to care about this 'war'? Probably not. It's only going to effect anyone who actually values high-fidelity sound over attention grabbing loudness, or quality over portability.
judging by the waveform in that video its 6db at best... big whoop
also its not like the guitar hero mix actually adds any real dynamic range
all you really get is some higher peaks added to something that otherwise looks (and sounds) a lot like uniform noise
the thing is though all those peaks are at exactly the same amplitude so dynamically youd achieve much the same effect by adding a rather loud sinus to the mix
I just popped a few of my favorite tracks into Audacity and I was surprised how many were affected by this loudness. Some less than others but I'm sure all would be improved without it.
Ok. I am really not happy with this anymore.
Almost every modern song I have is affected by this loudness. I removed all EQ settings and Bass Boosters and what did I get?
-Grounds for Divorce (Elbow) is completely washed out. All I hear is that guys voice, the heavy guitars, and the bass and drums get completely overwhelmed while treble clips. This song is also ridiculously loud.
-System of A Down: A bunch of their songs are flat. I love this band and this happens.
-Muse: Getting better but their songs clip at the treble heavily. Blackout by Muse is ridiculously loud. To the point that the snare hit in the near end of the song scares me.
-Metallica: I got rid of them.
-Scars On Broadway: Flat. Like an Asian girl (sorry for stereotype).
And the list goes on. What I'm left with is a handful of electronic songs, classical songs, piano songs, and older rock/ska songs. It's ridiculous because all this time I was wondering why my quieter songs actually sound better than my loud ones in fidelity and then I found out that most of my songs are loud.
But seriously, if you take off all EQs, Boosters, Etc, tune your speakers to a quieter song with good sound quality and try playing the loud songs at that same level of volume you hear with quiet songs, you'll notice how washed out they sound compared to quiet songs.
I may be PMS-ing about what some people may think is a silly/non-issue but I've basically been taught to listen to these minute details to create that subtility in piano music and knowing that these details were purposely taken away from good songs feels wrong.
A quote from one of the guys involved in this mix of DM after i showed him your post. ( I have a basic understanding of the subject, but not the technicalities. I thought I'd ask someone who really knows what they are talking about I just use my ears )
"I would say that doesn't mean GH:M (the source for MIII) doesn't have more DR than the retail CD, it does. The raw files have a DR of 12 compared to DR3 for much of the retail CD. However, the lossy files do have a 16.2khz cut off. But, the good news is, your speakers may not handle much above that, or your hearing may not recognize it anyway, that's why it was picked for the cut off for mp3.
So, while it lacks some of the frequency range, it has tons more DR."
The GH mix doesn't do what the final mix and mastering did to the retail version, which is totally annihilate the dynamic range the original recording did have. The CD tests out at a DR of 3...apparently lowest on record.
Whether the GH mixes are to anyones taste is obviously a different issue altogether, but there is no denying they sound 100x better than the retail CD sonically. I grabbed the 24/96 mixes (http://exit-reality.com/markiii_links.html) and made a CD from them then threw the retail CD in the bin. I'm now in love again with an album i gave up listening to after a couple of months because i couldn't bear to listen to it any longer.
Again, I admit it's not the best example of dynamics...but listening to the comparison is a very good and easily noticeable example to anyone with a half decent ear, of the difference between a vastly over compressed version (to the point of major clipping) and a much cleaner version. All the instruments have a lot more room to breath, most noticeably the drums which are completely washed out and horribly distorted in the retail version.
A large majority don't understand the problem at all. I used this example as it very easy to do a direct comparison between a clipped, over compressed recording and what it sounds like without the over compression and clipping.
As i said before, feel free to post some better examples. I couldn't be arsed to find any. DM is an album that finally made me aware of how bad things had got and i had these examples to hand. If you can post some better comparisons then go for it. The more people that are made aware of the problem the better.
A lot of people from the iPod generation just don't hear it or don't care. Enough people that remember how good a well produced/mixed album can sound do care though, and the poll results speak for themselves. It seems lot more people seem to care than I thought would tbh.
@ Scatter. No, i don't think your PMSing about a silly/non issue at all. It is an issue that plenty of people care about thankfully. The sooner this nonsense trend is ended the better.
illepall
and the effect they're having on a whole generation growing up with compressed music. Are most kids going to care about this 'war'? Probably not. It's only going to effect anyone who actually values high-fidelity sound over attention grabbing loudness, or quality over portability. 
I just use my ears 
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