hey i know that in lfsforums a lot of users had argue this already but i want to talk about the hype. I mean, i was reading some articles about GT vs forza and the writer is like talking without playing the games, he said something about gt4´s damage, i was thinking "what damage?" but keeping the topic, is there a big hype behind GT?


some stuff i find interesting, do you think LFS is better SIM than the GT series? I do..even better than FM3

and if you dont think so, why are you in LFS if GT is so "realistic sim"?

another shot, why PD went to the stand of turn10 back then on the E3?? why they do that if GT kicks forza so bad??

i hope nice answers, i mean, show me sources, and all that, if you want the link about what i wrote, i will post it if someoe request it, im going to sleep right now.

let me point you to the correct thread.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=58097

Nope, he is right...

I hate those nerds seeking for more and more. GT has alot of cars, they still want more. Endless talking about it, Some of them even goes to Forza thread and attacks their base like Boris. Why do you discuss a endless thread about it here while you have official forums of those sims. I don't get it.

It's like creating a LFS thread in GT5 and FM forums

Boris doesn't attack there "base" He does it lightheartedly, but Forza fans get incredibly defensive about it. It's not as if there isn't a fair share of GT flaming on the GT thread from Forza fanboys. OP is a Forza fanboy - I call shenanigans!

What's wrong with discussing another sim on the LFS forum? Is it a sin to enjoy more than one sin at a time? I don't think so. GT has things that LFS doesn't which makes it very interesting and enjoyable and vice-versa. That is why. Get over it.

Also; for an interesting wall of text, see here:

Quote from Earth :

In June 2008 Race Driver: Grid was released in North America. The game featured an instant replay feature, now simply known as rewind, that allows the driver to rewind the race up to 10 seconds. In September 2009 DiRT 2 was released and it incorporated a rewind feature as well.

Forza 3, which will be released this Friday, also features rewind. Forza 3 was the very first "hardcore" simulator to feature rewind. Some who plan on purchasing Forza 3 raised concerns that rewind should not be included in a simulator.

Dan Greenawalt, director of Forza 3, responded, "I am a sim racing gamer as well, and I can’t go back to games that don’t have it now. When I play other racing games and they don’t have this rewind, I just feel like, ‘Are you kidding me? I mean, this is kind of old school."

That means about 99.9% of the racing game and racing simulators that are out there are old school, because only three titles currently have the feature, DiRT 2, Race Car Driver GRID, and Forza 3.

Many racing simulators and racing games have been released since the rewind feature first appeared in Racecar Driver Grid in 2008. Some are set to be released shortly and the developers have not hinted at rewind being featured in the software. These titles include Gran Turismo 5, GTR Evolution, Race On, Need For Speed: Shift, Race Pro, and Volvo: The Game among others.

Obviously, if rewind was such a revolutionary feature that made racing games or simulators that did not feature it feel "old school" certainly more titles would have it. But most don't. This has led many to believe that rewind is gimmicky and a 'fad' feature. If rewind was as revolutionizing as a colored racing line certainly it would have been in more racing games or simulators by now. But it hasn't.

Supporters of rewind say the feature can help those who are hopelessly lost and frustrated when trying to control a car in a racing simulator, and at the same time it can also help more advanced drivers to perfect their racing line or braking points without grinding away at three mile courses just to get a chance to try that problem corner again.

However those who promote rewind only speak of it's possible and usually minimal benefits when discussing the feature. They ignore or downplay any possible negative side effects that may arise when you give drivers the power to rewind time and instantly correct mistakes.

They claim that those who would abuse rewind are only hurting themselves. Therefore, they say, a few bad apples shouldn't spoil it for everyone. If someone wants to play around and never attempt to properly learn how to race it's their money, those who promote rewind say. The feature has too much going for it for it to be spoiled by a few insubordinates who would abuse it. The positive far outweighs the negative they claim.

Is there any facts to back up these claims? Just how much good does rewind really do to help a driver versus the bad? Is the feature as revolutionizing as Dan Greenawalt claims it to be that all racing software that does not have it is old school, out of date and not in touch with reality?

I will attempt to find the answers to this and more in the following.

The following are the keys to being a competent race car driver
Discipline
Rhythm
Wisdom
Preperation
Anticipation
Reaction

Lets start with discipline. What exactly does discipline have to do with being a competent race car driver? A disciplined driver is not easily tempted into over driving his car in order to catch a driver or to fend off a pursing driver. A well disciplined driver is not tempted into over driving corners in order to put up a good qualifying time. Becoming a disciplined driver is accomplished by learning to drive within the limits of your car and your own driving talent. This usually takes many many hours if not years to master.

Does rewind teach discipline? No, it doesn't. In fact a driver who frequently uses rewind has no need to learn discipline.

Rhythm. A quarterback hits 10 straight passes. He is in rhythm. A basketball player makes 10 straight shots. He is in rhythm. How do opposing coaches try to break this rhythm? They call timeout. Rewind destroys any sense of rhythm a driver can ever hope to develop.

A driver who gets into a rhythm can click off laps within a tenth of each other. Those who use rewind ruin any chance they have at developing any sort of rhythm.

Wisdom. The definition of wisdom: "the quality or state of being wise; knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight."

Sadly, rewind does not promote nor does it help a driver gain wisdom on the racetrack.

A father is trying to teach his son how to race around a small home made Karting track. His son is making strides but is having trouble keeping it on track. The father grabs a bucket of water and a few seconds before his son comes zooming by he dumps all the water on the track. His son comes by a couple of seconds later, hits the water and spins out. Upset, his son steps out of the kart and runs up to his dad.

"Why did you do that!"

His father replies, "In racing there are no warnings. You prepare, you anticipate, and you react."

You prepare by practicing, either by yourself on an empty track or in a test with other cars. You anticipate anything and you react properly. You can only acquire this trait through many hours if not years of racing in various conditions. There are just far too many situations that may present themselves in motor racing and rewinding them all is not only pointless but will not help you get any better.

Sadly, again rewind does not help a driver with these three keys to racing. It does not help you prepare. It doesn't help you to anticipate and it doesn't help you to react.

Next, does anything from Gran Turismo's past hint that Polyphony Digital president Kazunori Yamauchi might implement rewind in future Gran Turismo titles?

In Gran Turismo 4 there was not an option to restart championship races even though this option is in other simulators. Obviously Kazunori Yamauchi wants a driver to experience a realistic championship were sometimes bad things happens and you don't always win. If this reality was not important to him surely there would be a restart option in Gran Turismo 4.


Nothing suggests Kazunori Yamauchi will implement rewind

Take for example what happened to Lewis Hamilton this year at the Italian Grand Prix. He was running 3rd with just a lap to go but made a slight error that ended up with his car in the guardrails, his day finished.

If this happened to someone in a simulator that featured rewind would they rewind? Most likely.

But lets think about what rewinding this moment means.

Would finishing on the podium be as satisfying if the driver completed the entire race without the use of rewind? Would the thrill of victory really be as great and rewarding as it could be if the driver rewinded errors during the race?

Before we anoint rewind the next great assist in driving sims lets think about the negatives and repercussions and not just the few positives.

Those who promote rewind say it can help walk new drivers through racing until they get better and dont need rewind anymore.

This is laughable because even the best drivers make mistakes and would like to rewind their mistakes. Mistakes are part of life and the threat that they loom and may ruin your race helps make a better driver then rewind which lets a driver race with no discipline or the need to anticipate a possible situation on the track.

The best way to learn how to not make a mistake in a driving simulator is to practice practice practice, learn the limits of your car and your own driving, because your going to make alot and I mean alot of different individual mistakes and the best way to fix these is not to rewind but to learn how to avoid them all together.

The question people who make mistakes should be asking themselves is why did I make the mistake in the first place?

If they ran into a car going into a corner they may just say "I braked too late." and then they rewind, and brake earlier.

Was braking too late the only mistake? Thats what rewind teaches them. The truth is he most likely was also over aggressive. He was probably careless too by getting into the corner so deep, risking contact and damage. But rewind teaches him that he just braked too late. Now that he can instantly rewind and just brake a little earlier he does not learn patience nor is he punished. He faces no consequences.

As a learning tool rewind is about as helpful as training wheels on a bicycle. Lets get past the kiddie stage and get into big boy racing. No baby-sitting here. Kazunori Yamauchi thinks differently then Dan Greenawalt. Greenawalt designs his games so that people who have no real interest in learning how to drive the cars properly can still find some enjoyment in Forza.


Dan Greenawalt appears more interested in Forza being trendy and on top of the latest fads then what's best for the development of drivers.

Reasons why drivers make mistakes:

- Driver is not familiar with a course
- Driver is not familiar with overtaking opportunities on a scourse
- Driver is not familiar with the limits of his car
- Driver does not display discipline and knowingly over drives car or tries a risky move

How do you try and fix these mistakes? Practice.

Those who promote rewind say fix them by rewinding. The problem is there are millions and millions of situations that may present themselves and rewinding them all will simply not fix the problem. A new driver will eventually stop using rewind because he will find out that he keeps making mistakes because he simply does not know why he makes them.

There are thousands if not millions of ways to crash on your own or into another car. Rewinding one crash and you'll end up just crashing slightly differently the next time.

The key is to teach yourself discipline and to practice the course and understand the limits of your car and those around you whether they be AI or real people.

In short, there are too many ways a driver can make a mistake and too many variables in order for rewind to be as effective as those who promote it say it is.

If a driver does not understand why he made the mistake rewinding will never ever help him get better. It's not as simple as saying "I just braked too late". It is rarely if ever that simple.

I can remember a demo of Dan Greenawalt racing at Lemans in Forza 3. He made a mistake, and then decided to rewind. He let the game play out. He crashed again.

Oops.

So he rewinded again.

This time he made the corner but made heavy contact with other cars and went off course a bit.

How much did he really learn by rewinding? Little if anything.

Gran Turismo already has a very fine tuned system for helping new drivers get onto their feet. It's called the license system. This system covers everything from the extreme basics such as starting and stopping to advanced driving techniques like drafting and overtaking.

Lets look at possible uses of rewind

- Someone brakes too late in a corner, misses it. They rewind
- Solution already in GT: colored racing line that tells you when to brake

- Someone wants to practice a turn or section of the track without running the entire track so they use rewind
- Solution already in GT: None. But a sector trainer as seen in GTR2 would be a better solution here as it is more precise and less cumbersome then rewind and gives you better feedback, including your time through a sector.

- Someone trys to pass an AI car and crashes so they rewind
- Solution already in GT: Many license tests and challenges that ask you to pass cars cleanly

THE POINT

Gran Turismo is a simulator

If your not willing to learn how to race properly and you want rewind to baby-sit you through the experience then Gran Turismo is not for you.

Gran Turismo already has MORE THEN ENOUGH assists to help you get better at car racing. A gimmicky feature like rewind is not needed.

Rewind is really saying "screw trying to learn how to do it right, with rewind there is no need to practice or try to hone your skills, you can jump in and go racing without having to worry about the consequences."

Is that what Gran Turismo should be saying to casuals and first time racers?

Learning from your mistakes is part of life. Giving a new driver the ability to instantly correct mistakes does not teach them good driving habits for the long run.

If a driver has the ability to instantly rewind any mistake he makes will he be more cautious the next time he comes up on a similiar situation? Maybe. Maybe not. But one thing is for sure, in the back of his mind he knows he has rewind to back him up so he can be wreckless if he wishes.

Reminds me of a NASCAR 2003 race a few years back. About two dozen drivers, including me, got together one night to run a 400 mile race at Daytona. Fearing that a large crash could ruin the long race for everyone the boss turned damage off.

The result?

Drivers became wreckless. They kept trying stupid moves that they would never normally try if they knew their cars could get damage.

The same will happen with rewind. No consequences does not encourage better driving.

Happy reading!

Quote from Takumi_lfs :

It's like creating a LFS thread in GT5 and FM forums

?

Forza Motorsport :rolleyes:

:doh:

Re: Rewind

Big name developers just keep finding new ways to dumb down their games. Sad.

see also: sitting in a corner sucking your thumb while health regenerates in shooters, dynamic AI speed adjustment in racing games, etc.

Quote from Forbin :

sitting in a corner sucking your thumb while health regenerates in shooters, dynamic AI speed adjustment in racing games, etc.

Those are the real bad ones. The rewind feature is no big deal to me, since nobody forces me to use it. But i really miss those days when in shooters you were desperatly looking for health and ammo so you could eventually survive until the end of a mission (sometimes you barely made it on the last bit of your health bar, with a knife in your hand as a weapon).

i dont understand very much about the direction of this, but talking about the rewind sh!t, i read something very real about it, when you are in a race and you end before the race is over (someone crash you or you crashed so bad) a lot of people just "restart" the race, so what is so bad about rewing the race and not to start from the very begin?

the only times i dont restart a race is when im playing online for example in LFS, and we know that a messed up start almost end in the votation to restart the race..

instead a lot of helps on fm3, i dont think to use them all, i hate those helps, make you feel as an useless noob lol

check this:

Quote :

Some who plan on purchasing Forza 3 raised concerns that rewind should not be included in a simulator.

i want to know what gonna happen if GT add a rewind, just like the damage (forza did it first), the "line help" stuff (forza did it first)

Quote :

Supporters of rewind say the feature can help those who are hopelessly lost and frustrated when trying to control a car in a racing simulator, and at the same time it can also help more advanced drivers to perfect their racing line or braking points without grinding away at three mile courses just to get a chance to try that problem corner again.

i would use this for real, do you know how many times i have to go back on blackwood to take the chicane a lot of times to figure it out wich is the best line?

Quote :

Does rewind teach discipline? No, it doesn't. In fact a driver who frequently uses rewind has no need to learn discipline.

the only discipline i need to know about using this, is how fast can i go trough the turns to make the fastest sector, or what? this is not about cruising or is it? this is about being the faster driver you can be.

Quote :

Rewind destroys any sense of rhythm a driver can ever hope to develop.

is better than restarting the whole race if you get the car damaged or just try again the same turn

Quote :

Gran Turismo already has a very fine tuned system for helping new drivers get onto their feet. It's called the license system. This system covers everything from the extreme basics such as starting and stopping to advanced driving techniques like drafting and overtaking.

lol i never used to do this on LFS, just went to blackwood and start lapping the track

Quote :

- Someone brakes too late in a corner, misses it. They rewind
- Solution already in GT: colored racing line that tells you when to brake

Quote :

- Someone trys to pass an AI car and crashes so they rewind
- Solution already in GT: Many license tests and challenges that ask you to pass cars cleanly

the solution already in gt is about a feature in forza 1, i dont trust in this line, is stupid, if you CANT make a dynamic line by yourself, you suck, just as the A.I. that follows the same line

Quote :

THE POINT

Gran Turismo is a simulator

check this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_racing_simulators
cant i see gt there???

i repeat myself, what would happen if GT use the rewind feature??? i think the "rewind" in that case will be "the best help to the driver to improve skills"


if this is not a hype, what the hell is this?
http://www.gameguru.in/driving ... port-ultimate-comparison/

"GT5 prologue also has similarly briliant damage effects"...

where?

i still think, LFS is the best, without the support of big companys or getting commercial because manufacturers licenses, this sim is the best, just wonder who can be the final version of LFS

Quote from jnr89 :

1) "when you are in a race and you end before the race is over (someone crash you or you crashed so bad) a lot of people just "restart" the race, so what is so bad about rewing the race and not to start from the very begin?"

2) "i want to know what gonna happen if GT add a rewind, just like the damage (forza did it first), the "line help" stuff (forza did it first)"


3) i would use this for real, do you know how many times i have to go back on blackwood to take the chicane a lot of times to figure it out wich is the best line?

4) "the only discipline i need to know about using this, is how fast can i go trough the turns to make the fastest sector, or what? this is not about cruising or is it? this is about being the faster driver you can be."

5) "is better than restarting the whole race if you get the car damaged or just try again the same turn"


6) "lol i never used to do this on LFS, just went to blackwood and start lapping the track"

1) Because if you know you're going to be able to rewind everytime you make a mistake, then it just creates wreckless driving. You don't need to concentrate or be disciplined at all.

2) GT won't be having a rewind feature because Kaz is a purist and Dan Greenawart is a nub. Forza did not have a driving line first you silly little fanboy. /facepalm

3) Yeah sure, and you will never be any good. Rewind is just a cheat. If you get used to using it then you will be useless without it.

4) You really don't get it do you? Discipline is a huge factor in racing. Forza claims it is a racing simulator, one of the best (lol). It totally discourages being disciplined. Driving the same line over and over. Nailing and linking up each corner for the perfect lap. If you're stopping and rewinding every corner, you will never learn to concentrate properly. Sometimes you need to be careful when racing. Rewind just encourages you to go crazy and not be punished for it. To be the fastest driver you have to be able to concentrate hard and be as disciplined as possible. Real drivers learn tracks by doing many laps and practicing. Not driving up to a corner, then reversing and trying again.

5) That is a matter of opinion. I could not feel satisfied taking a race win if I had rewinded a race because of my own mistake. If you make a mistake you should be punished for it, otherwise what is the point in the game. There is no challenge.

6) Exactly. No rewind required.

Rewind is a stupid feature, I guess people are just too lazy nowadays to even play a game half decently. But then how other people play their games I don't care, as long as you can't use it online against me I am not bothered.

But saying Kaz is a purist is well.......a bit funny, I know he truely believes PD makes the best racing simulator but that guy is also a bit delusional, he is pure in a sense he only consider what is done in his own work being "perfect".

I've race the guy in a game show and had a brief chat as well, his driving is rather decent in the game but he is pretty fanatical about his work....in a almost religious sort of way.


p.s. Every game is hyped, even LFS, so no big deal, collective opinion isn't something you should consider when you play a game.

Quote from JJ72 :

Stuff about Kaz being a purist

Take what I said about the two developers with a pinch of irony.

That said, I think Forza's developer is an idiot.

“I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.” -Dan Greenawalt

What a tit.

Quote from Gills4life :

1) Because if you know you're going to be able to rewind everytime you make a mistake, then it just creates wreckless driving. You don't need to concentrate or be disciplined at all.



3) Yeah sure, and you will never be any good. Rewind is just a cheat. If you get used to using it then you will be useless without it.

4) You really don't get it do you? Discipline is a huge factor in racing. Forza claims it is a racing simulator, one of the best (lol). It totally discourages being disciplined. Driving the same line over and over. Nailing and linking up each corner for the perfect lap. If you're stopping and rewinding every corner, you will never learn to concentrate properly. Sometimes you need to be careful when racing. Rewind just encourages you to go crazy and not be punished for it. To be the fastest driver you have to be able to concentrate hard and be as disciplined as possible. Real drivers learn tracks by doing many laps and practicing. Not driving up to a corner, then reversing and trying again.

5) That is a matter of opinion. I could not feel satisfied taking a race win if I had rewinded a race because of my own mistake. If you make a mistake you should be punished for it, otherwise what is the point in the game. There is no challenge.

6) Exactly. No rewind required.

with 6th, i mean that i didnt take those lessons...

you say im a fan boy, i tell you i was a GT PLAYER, after forza, never look back to GT, why? TOO EASY... you say im a fanboy but look at you

Quote :

"2) GT won't be having a rewind feature because Kaz is a purist and Dan Greenawart is a nub. Forza did not have a driving line first you silly little fanboy. /facepalm"

i have forza motorsports 1 and IT HAS a driving line, you put it on and on the track appears a line that CHANGE the colors if you need to speed up or brake or "speed up a little", the color are:

green: speed up
red: brake /desacelerate
yellow: is like keeping the same speed

so, stop your fanatism, LFS is the most underated in my opinion because is such a great sim without the BIG hype created by gran turismo over the years with those "intro" with graphics you dont see in the in-game playing, the commercials featuring cars and oil slippery on the road (LOL where is it in the game?)


i think forza is better than gt because with less years on the market, the game puts PD on troubles, or why did PD went to the FM3 stand at E3??? i think they go there to ask some cooking advicing, didnt they?


if you are so much against this "rewind" feature, you should play only games with no "restart" option, because basically is the same sh!t

Quote from jnr89 :

if you are so much against this "rewind" feature, you should play only games with no "restart" option, because basically is the same sh!t

GRID, incidentally, also had this option, rewarding the player with an extra rep bonus.
Restarting the entire race and rewinding back to the moment before you made a big mistake is not the same thing though. A restart means completely ending the race and starting it again, all progress you made is lost, damage taken and dealt for nothing, all the distance covered in vain. It's not just "Hmm, well I screwed that up for good. Oh well, I'll just rewind!", it's "F*CK, now I've gotta do all that again!".

Rewind is a good feature for arcade singleplayer racing, but it has no place in a simulation, where realism is the top priority. Granted, restarting is not all that realistic either, but it's necessary in singleplayer mode.

You think the original Forza was the first to have a driving line? That's either being ignorant or a fanboy, although probably both.

So PD went to an F3 stand at E3. Oh, they were most certainly there to take down ideas weren't they. A lot of developers look around at other games. I don't understand what you're trying to suggest. F3 is superior because PD checked it out at E3? The Forza 3 developer confessed to loving the work that Kaz has done with the GT series, therefore GT must be superior because Greenawalt has checked out competition in the market? Good call.

You're right, LFS is the most underated, although I am not sure how you can even judge that anyway since you're only a demo user.

Oil spill in a commercial but not in GT4!?!? Wow. That's shocking. When I drink Red Bull I always sprout wings and everything. When I use herbal essence shampoo I always orgasm. SAUCE! This simple will not do.

Why are you so relentless in standing up for the rewind feature when you know full well that it is a load of balls. If GT had it and Forza did not, you would mock GT. Fortunately, GT is not going down the arcade route. It's not the same as restarting a race. Restarting a race means starting again from the beginning, so if you make a mistake during the race and you have to retire, you will have to start again. You are punished for a mistake, like you should be! Like I have said before, which you don't seem to understand, the rewind feature means that you do not have to focus and concentrate on keeping a perfect line through a corner, because you always know that if you get it a bit wrong or end up going off into a wall, you will be able to quickly rewind and do that small section again. It's like comparing LFS and iRacing. In LFS people know you do not really get punished for going off onto the grass. Sure you get laughed at and your rep for being an uber 1337 racer becomes somewhat dented, but you can quickly and easily shift+P and try again. On iRacing if this happens your rating will decrease, so there is an incentive to drive cleanly and well and to concentrate properly on what you're doing. This is the kind of thing I mean. If you're never going to get punished for making a mistake, then what the **** is the point? It just takes the whole point of racing away from it.

Quote :

“I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.” -Dan Greenawalt

Then he hasn't seen LFS.

That's just marketing bullshit.

Quote from jibber :

Quote from Forbin :

Re: Rewind

Big name developers just keep finding new ways to dumb down their games. Sad.

see also: sitting in a corner sucking your thumb while health regenerates in shooters, dynamic AI speed adjustment in racing games, etc.

Those are the real bad ones. The rewind feature is no big deal to me, since nobody forces me to use it. But i really miss those days when in shooters you were desperatly looking for health and ammo so you could eventually survive until the end of a mission (sometimes you barely made it on the last bit of your health bar, with a knife in your hand as a weapon).

Oh, and how could I forget QUICK TIME EVENTS!!! AHHHH!!!! :scared:

Quote from Gills4life :

You think the original Forza was the first to have a driving line? That's either being ignorant or a fanboy, although probably both.

yes, im the ignorant and fanboy who started to use those terms, and im the IGNORANT and the FANBOY who said "forza doesnt have a driving line" when it does since the very first game of the series, have you ever play forza to speak as you know it??

im not sure wich is the first game with this feature of the driving line, but im pretty sure forza used it before GT... and i dont care so much because that line is for noobs, my line differs from the "driving line" in almost 60% and most on the braking points.. i dont use that line, is just a good feature for the starters.



___________________________________________________________

Quote from Gills4life :

So PD went to an F3 stand at E3. Oh, they were most certainly there to take down ideas weren't they. A lot of developers look around at other games. I don't understand what you're trying to suggest. F3 is superior because PD checked it out at E3? The Forza 3 developer confessed to loving the work that Kaz has done with the GT series, therefore GT must be superior because Greenawalt has checked out competition in the market? Good call.

what about if that was vice-versa, T-10 going to PD stand, i bet my ass you would saying "those noobs went to the stand of the most perfect racing simulator to take some ideas"
___________________________________________________________

Quote from Gills4life :

You're right, LFS is the most underated, although I am not sure how you can even judge that anyway since you're only a demo user.

nice move to use my demo user status to make me look as i dont know what im talking about...the main reason is because i dont need to buy s2 to understand how BIG is this sim, or how REAL and better is against forza or gt.

im not s2 because i cannot buy a wheel, and if i do, i will get s2, in my country everything you think is "expensive" is WAY MOST expensive here (277 us$ is the price of a used g25 here, lancer evo X used: 65,000 us$ no full option, get it?)

if you want, use the fact that english is not my native language to say something like "how can you judge that, since you re only a spanish dude?"



___________________________________________________________

Quote from Gills4life :

Oil spill in a commercial but not in GT4!?!? Wow. That's shocking. When I drink Red Bull I always sprout wings and everything. When I use herbal essence shampoo I always orgasm. SAUCE! This simple will not do.

why do you like to argue about the crap?? do you love to see commercials about games that make you think "omg this feature will rock" and when you get it... "where the **** is the oil?"

this example is hillarious:
i wonder you will buy a nissan gtr that in the commercial said "awd all models, 450 hp all models" and when you get a 200 hp FWD cheap version without options or leather seats, i think you will be very happy

i like to get what i see, that´s why i like forza over gt, gt with their cg intros, super intense racing commercials, crashing? oil on the road? all the bullshit they put to make you think "what a cool game" they are not in the game



___________________________________________________________

Quote from Gills4life :

...This is the kind of thing I mean. If you're never going to get punished for making a mistake, then what the **** is the point? It just takes the whole point of racing away from it.

the rewind shit is not allowed online racing, that is a fact, dont speak as it is available forever and everywhere. so, what is the point of this?, when in GT you can crash, and nothing happens, you can use the wall as your advantage, and nothing happens??? i mean, you are saying the rewind stuff must be eliminated, but i want to know what you gonna do if this stuff is in the next GT6 PROLOGUE??? ah?



you say im a fanboy right? im saying, i just take the best sim, if gt gets better than forza, i will give a crap about FM3, just like that, thats why i dont give a crap about GT right now, and about forza, LFS >FORZA/GT



if im getting a g27, s2 license, and a more powerfull pc = why to play forza? why you still play gt? or what? gt is better sim that lfs too?

no doubt about gran turdismo being the "real" driving simulator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPfCoHErp1c

Quote from jnr89 :

im not sure wich is the first game with this feature of the driving line, but im pretty sure forza used it before GT... and i dont care so much because that line is for noobs, my line differs from the "driving line" in almost 60% and most on the braking points.. i dont use that line, is just a good feature for the starters.

Gran Turismo used the racing line in the license test (only the first couple of licenses and not the final test for each, I think).

Gran Turismo has been around for nearly 10 years longer than Forza, so it's not surprising they used it first.

Forza was the first to have the option to use it in any race.






__________________________________________________ _________
Sorry I had to.

still doesn't make jnr89 any less of an ignorant fanboy...

=/ Personally for console games, I'll take GT over Forza.


But to be really honest.... I'd rather play some good ol NR2003 or GPL.

Good ol' GPL, now that was a hard game. xD

Anyways, there is a hype. It's the biggest racing game for PS3. That means PS3 people are happy. =) Because WE OWN a PS3. > >




In all honesty, all this argument boils down to is do you like 360 (forza) or ps3 (GT)


The Forza people are obviously jealous of the PS3's awesomeness, and the PS3 people are jealous that the 360 has a bigger e-penis.


You're all retarded. Just like the two parties of government here in the USA. (the democrats and republicans)

And to be completely honest, I feel like the 360 is the system for people who want to be "popular", and the PS3 is for people who really don't give a shit what people think about them. I'll enjoy my uncharted 2 thank you very much.

(Oh and if you must know WHY i dislike the 360 in any way.. there was this kid in my programming class who talked about Halo and Gears of War... ALL... THE.... TIME... Even to the teacher who had NOOOO idea what it was. ALL... THE.... TIME... ><)

Quote from Forbin :

see also: sitting in a corner sucking your thumb while health regenerates in shooters

That's what I like about wolfenstein enemy territory. You just go around screaming "MEDIC!!!!" till you get kicked for spamming a voice command, or a medic comes and gives you health. (Though then the medic comes at you double-jumping three stories in the air injecting himself with adrenalin)

Quote from Arsenic_Fox :

still doesn't make jnr89 any less of an ignorant fanboy...


Anyways, there is a hype. It's the biggest racing game for PS3. That means PS3 people are happy. =) Because WE OWN a PS3. > >




In all honesty, all this argument boils down to is do you like 360 (forza) or ps3 (GT)


The Forza people are obviously jealous of the PS3's awesomeness, and the PS3 people are jealous that the 360 has a bigger e-penis.


You're all retarded. Just like the two parties of government here in the USA. (the democrats and republicans)

And to be completely honest, I feel like the 360 is the system for people who want to be "popular", and the PS3 is for people who really don't give a shit what people think about them. I'll enjoy my uncharted 2 thank you very much.

(Oh and if you must know WHY i dislike the 360 in any way.. there was this kid in my programming class who talked about Halo and Gears of War... ALL... THE.... TIME... Even to the teacher who had NOOOO idea what it was. ALL... THE.... TIME... ><)

i just erased the content what i think "wtf with this info?" and i leave the part i like to read... because is very funny you know, besides im the fanboy here...

by the way, im such fanboy, i preffer LFS over forza, how many times did i wrote it? i dont know, but this one counts too..

nobody answer my question

wich is BEST SIM? LFS? GT?? are you affraid to answer?

Why are all your posts so retarded? They're designed to create some sort of argument, albeit less obvious than "LULZ FORZA ROCKS, GT SUCKS AND YOU ARE GAY FOR LIKING IT!one1" but essentially that's your main goal. It's pretty obnoxious of you, as look at what your thread is. By the 20th post, you have people that are simply arguing because you have baited them into it, and your post history would correspond with this trend.

Why the **** do you haffto be so flamebait with all your posts. It's not cruise control for cool. It's not winning any lulz and it's rather ****ing annoying.

/thread /rant /universe /yourmother.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Why the **** do you haffto be so flamebait with all your posts. It's not cruise control for cool. It's not winning any lulz and it's rather ****ing annoying.

Hypocrite much?