Lap and Replay Time of incident: Lap 4
Car(s) involved: 96 and 20
Brief description of incident: 96 caused 20 to spin because he didn't brake(hard enough).
Lap and Replay Time of incident: lap 26 (admin dekojester edit: Lap 29, 1:26:30)
Car(s) involved: 16 and 96
Brief description of incident:Spinning our car in the last corner before start finish line.
Lap and Replay Time of incident: Total: 11m50s Lap 4.
Car(s) involved:11 A. Roselli, 18 N.Runas
Brief description of incident: I was up alongside M.Runas going into Turn 6 or 7 (I'm not sure what the turn numbers are.)
I was along side of him and he bumped me over offtrack and into the grass.
No protest has been submitted (no reason to either, just placing it here as it seems appropiate), however I'd like to excuse myself for the crash caused during the SC period in the second lap before the race start. The car in front of me (7Karat) speeded up, I went closer as we were in sector 4, and either the car lagged or braked very hard it's not clear to me (have to check replay) and I simply bumped into his rear, got on the grass and we both spun, taking others with us. Nothing I could do about it, nevertheless my excuses.
Pushed?? I didnt move an inch until he hit me, and that was only because he hit me!! Your driver hit my rear when i was holding my line as im perfectly intitled to do, i didnt suddenly move over to block him or anything, he just decided he'd take that line and rather than go cleanly he had to go door to door to do it, and it resulted in him hitting my car on the RR wheel, and it kinked right across and sending himself spinning.
If your going to complain about my driving, at least check what actually happened rather than claiming i did something i didnt do.
Please watch the replay, and watch in slow motion and you'll see i didnt move the wheel in either direction, i just held a defensive line and protect the inside, he was directly behind me, had either side as an option and HE made a decision to go that side. He chose a path where i'd intentionally left no room, thats the whole point of 'closing the door', i didnt want someone making a silly move.
So how is that my fault? I made my intentions clear, i took 1 line and only 1 line, and didnt turn the wheel until after i was hit, to counter act that contact. Your driver made all the decisions.
I also didnt change line the other half-dozen times he rammed into the back & side of me either. That included the start where he gave me sod all space through the chicane and was at least a cars length ahead of me when the lights went green despite qualifying behind me.
I know its not a penalty, but i dont understand why im not allowed to hold a defensive line parallel to the track. I didnt move once after straightening up, he was directly behind me, went to pass and couldnt do it without hitting a car which wasnt moving side to side or anything, and spun.
I didnt force him to pass on that side, if anything i made it clear it wasnt an option and he could have gone left where there was plenty of room which i wasnt already occupying, i just stayed where i was, i committed to a line and stuck to it, and he committed to a pass he couldnt complete cleanly.
I can take the comment on-board as advice, but a warning suggests im at fault, at fault for doing what im entitled to do, because someone wanted to make a silly pass where there wasnt room? Could you clarify what i did which is wrong, thats breaking a rule, cos im not seeing anything atm and as i see it im being issued a warning because you want to give advice. Im not really sure.
Yeah, sorry about that 3J, though im not quite sure why you think im trying to pass you there, thats rather absurd (as is the 'dont divebomb' warning).
I wasnt attempting to divebomb anyone, I might have been slightly late on the brakes, but that was simply because I was originally trying to take a normal line into the corner as there was a decent sized gap there after you and #89 got through, but the contact between you and #89 after you'd cut across his nose slowed you both down, and i had to quickly change line to avoid running into the back of #89 and was along side him, but i couldnt stop soon enough to stop for you. I just quickly tried to react to what was happening infront of me, while still braking, down-shifting and initially not get tangled up in both your cars, as it was a snap decision not knowing if you'd both spin or be fine.
It wasnt some stupid masterplan to gain 2 places from a car 2+ lengths infront of me.
I accept that i caused the incident, but equally had you not cut across lanes and hit #89 i wouldnt have had to quickly reposition myself to try and avoid getting caught up in it, and i think my car got a bit out of shape (sudden movement to avoid #89, braking and downshifting) which didnt help matters. My appologies for it though.
Anyway, if you'd held a more defensive inside line when i was trying to pass you round the outside i wouldnt have been there to 'divebomb' you .
To be honest I couldnt see him as we were side by side, i obviously knew you were there, but as i'd looked across his car was hidden by yours, hadnt realised there was a 3rd car also in there and took what i thought would be a clean 2-car-wide line, had i known i guess i'd have tried to take a wider line, you were kinda pinned in there and cant complain about the room you left on the inside or really overshooting it causing our bump.
On an unrelated matter, i thought the qualifying session was quite disappointing as a few people who couldnt give a hoot about others when they were driving around on their 'in lap'. I was doing 2+ flying laps, and twice i had potentially very good laps ruined by people deciding because they'd done their 1 flying lap then everyone else must have too.
Enjoyable race though, shame it took so many attempts to go green hehe
Actually it was lap 29 (on last chicane) - 1.26.34 of the race.
On 1.26.38 you can clearly see that he is driving into me, I was ~half a car behind when contact was made, and IF he would use his mirrors, he would certainly see that I'm coming on the right. Instead, he just drove into me. I don't see the issue here.
@ paul......no need to fret, man. Was merely a racing incident. I was under the impression you were going to stay to the left(just as i did for you at 12:15.08) as you had taken the inside lane. It seems i was up a bit farther than you explain, and your momentum took you to a place i was intent on occupying. Experience should have told you there is a noob in a disadvantaged FXR outside of you and to just repass on the straight.....(yes there actually ARE a few amatuers in this league).
At the time, it seemed like an avoidable incident, had i been given the same amount of space i gave you. At just before 17:00, you made a similar "outside" pass in the last chicane, and i lifted to let you thru...as it benefitted both of us. Had i also "held my line", we both would have been twatted up with the whole pack coming at us.
i tried to give you all the room you needed and then some...the contact in the chicane was purely accidental. my fault, my apologies.....
Paul, Kevin was driving the first stint and he genuine believed you pushed him off the track. I on LFS remote cant see anything then a little car spinning and moving around off track. On this I have to rely on the driver and his judgement and made the protest.
After the stint Kevin watched the replay and he inmeddiatly said it wasnt your fault and that better not be in that position at all. He just apologized for it and I will aswell. So Paul we apologize for it.
This brings me to the next point. This also shows why I am not keen on doing reports during a race because as a manager or race director you cant judge it without any replay to back it up. This means you have to really rely on the judgement of someone who is in a car. Not saying the any driver in the car is a liar but he cant be objective at that time.
Maybe we need to finish the race and eventually make a protest after the race. Then at least you have watchd the replay a couple of times after you have relaxed from the race.
I gave you the warning because you could have moved a tad further left across the track to leave a tad more space for the RSR car. There was definitely no intentional move to the right to "block" the RSR car [which was what I was looking for after the protest], but he was up on the curb on the exit of the hairpin, and as the curb ended he didn't really have anywhere to go
It's hardly a wrecking incident or blatent disregard for other cars, so I just gave a warning, rather than anything else.
Yeah, you got better traction out of the corner with the AWD, and there isnt even enough time to react to you being there tbh.
I thought my positioning was enough to see i was planning on holding that inside, there is room there, and tbh your not even on the curbing which certainly would have avoided any contact, at that point at least (your nose is level with my rear tyre) and had you gone a tad over you probably would have got 3/4 along side me before braking and you'd have had the inside too.
Personally, i thought it was a racing incident, certainly an avoidable incident.
Its not a problem, thats why i asked if you could watch the replay and see it properly. There was a dozen things that I (both of us) could have done to avoid the incident, but turning in and causing it certainly wasnt what happened and i knew it was clear on the replay. tbh though, it'd have been better if after realising you could have corrected the comment here, as its not a pleasant read seeing someone say you pushed their driver off, i'd spent 1am-8am the night before trying to get my PC just to boot properly as things have gone ugly in there, so it was a long day hence a chunk of repeated ranting (SO unlike me )
not to worry though, shame it had to happen cos i'd spent most of the race around z8 even without the pace car
As for the 2nd point, i have to agree in part with what your saying, but there doesnt need to be a blanket ban on mid-race protests, there just needs to be fair & impartial wording of the incident reports unless you can be certain of the case i guess.
If people ask for an incident to be reviewed, giving only the details required to locate it, then thats fine. However in the instance of your protest against me your making comments that you cant be sure of, which IMO isnt particularly fair to the other party. The review should be (and im guessing it is) of both parties, and regardless of who initiates the review the driver/s at fault are penalised where appropriate.
I also have a thing about the term 'protest', for LFSPS we dont have protests, we have incident reviews/reports, i think the terminology is fairer and not as leading as issuing a protest against someone. A protest IMO says you believe what they did is wrong, and should be dealt with, while requesting an incident be reviewed is only asking for it to be assessed.
Its the same process, friendlier terminology IMO.
"The racing surface shall be defined as the marked, paved race course and its curbing only" - There was curbing, flat curbing for at least a cars width.
Also the 1/4 overlap, thats only just acheived if you count the front splitter.
Having a look at the screenshot of the replay... theres a cars width of space there at the point of contact. He didnt need to be as tight as he was there, he'd got better traction out of the corner and could have given me more time to see he was putting himself there, as well as get further alongside me, instead he'd barely got there and we'd had very minor contact but the positioning of it on my rear cause the car to kink in his direction excentuating matters.
So technically, as warned you want me to leave a tad bit more room, well there was a cars width, how big does this tad need to be?
As i say, i know its not a penalty or something worth kicking up a huge fuss about, but im still being warned about my actions, and so far i havent read something that puts me at fault, not by your rules or anyone elses i know of. I just find it concerning, especially on the back of a ludicrous 'divebomb' comment, how much time is spent looking at things and coming to a fair outcome. Your outcome was 'leave more room" when theres a cars width of legal racing surface by your terms, and "dont divebomb" when i've just took quick avoiding measures and been unable to settle and slow the car quickly enough (i accept it was my fault for the spin, even if it was due to avoiding a lapse in their judgement).
As i see it, ive done nothing wrong, you havent highlighted something I have done wrong, and if there is something im doing wrong i'd like to know to try and avoid it in the future. I can understand advice to try and help matters (not that i took actions to make matters worse) but warning me for my actions seems rather harsh when you havent highlighted something i HAVE done which i shouldnt have. Its GTAL, im here to learn and get up to speed in this class, but i dont know of any rule in any series (Virtual or IRL) that would find me guilty of doing something wrong in that incident.
I'd rather know and try and avoid it, that continue and get punished for something i see as being quite acceptable, and when its peoples races being spoiled because im doing something im not allowed to, i dont want to be responsible for that (nor the penalty we'd get for it).
you've exceeded your word-limit for the month paul .
no worries man. there's so many things we "could" do on track in a very small amount of time, all the while we're all tensed up,white-knuckled hanging on the wheel trying to NOT screw up.
two things i try to kep in mind: you can't tell emotion from what someone types (i.e. the term "Pushed"), and if you're racing with someone you've never been around before, you don't know what their behavior will be.
i'm sure there's guys you race with all the time, and when you do, you know what they're gonna do in certain situations.
on to the next one(i hope, who knows if we are even "in" yet).
Maybe you should've taken you own advice before making the protest? And at least with all teams on irc, you can speak to them before deciding anything.
That included the start where he gave me sod all space through the chicane and was at least a cars length ahead of me when the lights went green despite qualifying behind me. 
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