Perhaps with the return of racing specialist teams we will see a return of people who are motivated more by a love of racing than money.

Quote from Intrepid :

90% of motorsport is based in Europe. tracks/teams/competition is all here. But drivers only become world class if they race here at a young age.

Thats a bold claim, you could argue that top level international motorsport is quite centred in Europe, but an excellent lower level racing scene can be found worldwide.

Quote from lizardfolk :

1. Karthikeyan is Asian. Indians are asians.

2. Yeh, they weren't good in F1. My point exactly. There hasnt been successful drivers from any of those countries. Doesnt necessarily mean that those countries are devoid of racing talent. (like Japan)

3. I know Kubica is Polish. But he's also Eastern European (which indudes Poland, Russian, Lituanaians, etc). I said that F1 is pretty western European centric with the excpetion of Kubica

Please read more carefully.....

India is in Asia, correct, it's also next to Pakistan which is in the middle east and Pakistani folk are called Asians too yup yup yup. it's called the middle east because it's in the centre of America and China therefore from say, Syria, all the way to Bangladesh is middle east.

Quote from BlueFlame :

it's called the middle east because it's in the centre of America and China therefore from say, Syria, all the way to Bangladesh is middle east.

Oh come on, America?

India isn't middle east because it's western boundary is only just as far west as China, and it's culture origin is totally different from all those that comes from the gulf region.

If Bangladesh is middle east than half of china is in middle east lol.

Quote from lizardfolk :

What about China? Denmark? Norway? Middle East?

granted its not f1 but clearly the danes are genetically unable to excell in motorsports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Kristensen

Quote from JJ72 :

Oh come on, America?

India isn't middle east because it's western boundary is only just as far west as China, and it's culture origin is totally different from all those that comes from the gulf region.

If Bangladesh is middle east than half of china is in middle east lol.

I'm talking the most easternly point of China, and the most Westernly point of America but either way show's what little you know about India as 15% of Indians Islamic population, yes it's a bloody big place and the Muslim population in India is almost more than the whole of Pakistans population, and since the capital city of Pakistan is Islamabad, it's safe to assume that the majority of Muslims in terms of one complete state are in Pakistan.

What does Muslims have to do with whether the Indians are asians or middle eastern?

americans are europeans undercover actually and Asian people are actually europeans with make-up.

*btw lizard you forgot flying Finns*

Quote from -NightFly- :

americans are europeans undercover actually and Asian people are actually europeans with make-up.

*btw lizard you forgot flying Finns*

Then what are black, middle eastern, latin, native americans, pacific islanders and eskimos? :P

Quote from lizardfolk :

Then what are black, middle eastern, latin, native americans, pacific islanders and eskimos? :P

baah, i was just trying to point that your discussion is getting a bit offtopic and pointless , anyway, carry on.

Quote from lizardfolk :

What does Muslims have to do with whether the Indians are asians or middle eastern?

JJ was talking about Indian culture being different to that of the middle east.

Quote from BlueFlame :

India is in Asia, correct, it's also next to Pakistan which is in the middle east and Pakistani folk are called Asians too yup yup yup. it's called the middle east because it's in the centre of America and China therefore from say, Syria, all the way to Bangladesh is middle east.

Your geography is weak.

Pakistan is Asian. It is sometimes grouped within the Greater Middle East, but this is a largely a rubbish political category coined by George W Bush to describe the Muslim countries near Europe.

The Middle East is correctly Cyprus, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, the Arabian peninsula, and the land mass directly to the east of the Mediterranean Sea (Israel, Lebanon, etc.).

Pakistan and Afghanistan are Asian nations, as is Bangladesh (where did you get the idea it's in the Middle East?).

Quote from samjh :

Your geography is weak.

Pakistan is Asian. It is politically grouped within the Greater Middle East, but this is a largely a rubbish politically category coined by George W Bush to describe the Muslim countries near Europe.

The Middle East is correctly Cyprus, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, the Arabian peninsula, and the land mass directly to the east of the Mediterranean Sea (Israel, Lebanon, etc.).

The whole thing is screwed, technically Cyprus and Turkey are in Asia, but they are both classed as Europe. It's stupid, nobody know where anybody is. Is Russia Europe or Asia? No wait, it's both.

You're all racists and you're not getting any of our slags. Tristan - inform the slags that they shall henceforth refuse service to the racists.

Cyprus and Turkey are traditionally considered Asian, and not European. Cyprus is now considered European due to cultural considerations. Turkey actually sits on the border of Europe and Asia, and is considered Asian in terms of physical geography but European in terms of politics.

Russia is an interesting thing. Russian geographers consider parts of the country from the Ural mountains to the west, as being part of Europe, while the parts east of the Urals is classed as Asian.

If you think Cyprus and Turkey's geographical classification is screwed, try Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia.

Quote from samjh :

Cyprus and Turkey are traditionally considered Asian, and not European. Cyprus is now considered European due to cultural considerations. Turkey actually sits on the border of Europe and Asia, and is considered Asian in terms of physical geography but European in terms of politics.

Russia is an interesting thing. Russian geographers consider parts of the country from the Ural mountains to the west, as being part of Europe, while the parts east of the Urals is classed as Asian.

If you think Cyprus and Turkey's geographical classification is screwed, try Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia.

I know all about them, it wrecks with my head just think about Israel :P Georgia is actually a very strange place I think but I think these countries should stick to one continent :P to me Turkey is asian but like you say culturally they are actually more European than say, Lebanon but even that is more European than people think.

thats why im proud to be born in argentina..... we got the late fangio as god... and only a german had more succes than him... but some 40 odd years later though.....

Quote from el pibe :

thats why im proud to be born in argentina..... we got the late fangio as god... and only a german had more succes than him... but some 40 odd years later though.....

Canadian flag too, so you can claim Gilles Villeneuve if you ever need to pretend you prefer sportsmen over statistics.

You guys are forgetting Central Asia. Which is Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Nepal, etc.

If those are Central Asians (which they are) and India, Bangladesh and Pakistan is to the East of that...then I've pretty sure those three countries are considered Asian as well.

Cyprus is a Middle Eastern country regardless if they are now culturally more European than Middle Eastern. Just like Egypt and Turkey are also considered Middle Eastern. I think Sam has it correctly: The Middle East is correctly Cyprus, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, the Arabian peninsula, and the land mass directly to the east of the Mediterranean Sea (Israel, Lebanon, etc.).

Of course cultural divisions will split and confuse this more but the fact is that geologically speaking. This is the standard that's used when defining different parts of the world.

I mean look at Philippines. They are not even remotely considered to be Pacific Islanders as they are considered to be Asians as well. but Kiribait, Micronesia, and Palau are very very close to Philippines. Both geologically and some what culturally. So, arguably, the Philippines can be considered a part of the Pacific Islands by that logic but general standards say it isnt. I see no reason why we need to suddenly make new division and standards as I see nothing wrong with the current one even if it doesnt reflect cultural shifts (and IMO it never will no matter how many times we redraw the map).

Quote from BlueFlame :

I'm talking the most easternly point of China, and the most Westernly point of America.

Please, what is between the most easternly point of China and westernly point of america is the bloody PACIFIC OCEAN.

Fact remains most of the Indians aren't muslims, and their cultural origin is different, they have their own religion and muslim influence only exists after they start interacting with other counteries.

I think this is the most of topic a F1 thread has even gotten :P

Quote from lizardfolk :

I see no reason why we need to suddenly make new division and standards as I see nothing wrong with the current one even if it doesnt reflect cultural shifts (and IMO it never will no matter how many times we redraw the map).

Generalisations are "generally" - useless.

IIRC you're American and you like NASCAR, so should I make assumptions based on history, ignore any cultural changes in the last 50 years in the southern states and assume you like to torch black people at the weekends?

I'm from the UK, we're incredibly unpopular in continental Europe and we've always lived - physically - on an island. Bundle us in with the Europeans if you like but you'll only demonstrate your own ignorance and piss off the Europeans at the same time.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Generalisations are "generally" - useless.

IIRC you're American and you like NASCAR, so should I make assumptions based on history, ignore any cultural changes in the last 50 years in the southern states and assume you like to torch black people at the weekends?

I'm from the UK, we're incredibly unpopular in continental Europe and we've always lived - physically - on an island. Bundle us in with the Europeans if you like but you'll only demonstrate your own ignorance and piss off the Europeans at the same time.

Your post speaks 1000 truths and renders all our arguing in the fore invalid.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Generalisations are "generally" - useless.

IIRC you're American and you like NASCAR, so should I make assumptions based on history, ignore any cultural changes in the last 50 years in the southern states and assume you like to torch black people at the weekends?

I'm from the UK, we're incredibly unpopular in continental Europe and we've always lived - physically - on an island. Bundle us in with the Europeans if you like but you'll only demonstrate your own ignorance and piss off the Europeans at the same time.

Ummm....ok? I agree?

Only that you've taken my posts completely out of context? We're not arguing about how we should see people in specific areas. In fact if you read carefully you'll see that I specifically stated that geographically the standards should apply regardless of cultural shifts. blueflame stated that no japanese drivers have ever done well in any top tier motorsports. I argued that many top tier motorsport series are western euro-centric and I've stated various other regions such as eastern europe, middle east and asia. He started to challenge my notion of what would be "european" or "asian" and all I'm saying is I'm relying on standards that I was taught. So that entire posts was me defending my standard. Not an argument for generalization.

So...actually what you are saying would agree with what I'm trying to bring across (after we've established that Pakistan and India are asian countries since they are east of Central Asian countries and making them exceptions just purely because of cultural differences and shifts is arbitrary and superficial)

It's OK Kev, we'd never lump you in with those Europeans, however you do talk an awful lot like those ****ing Aussies.

You kangaroo ****er!

Quote from BlueFlame :

Your post speaks 1000 truths and renders all our arguing in the fore invalid.

Awesome. Shush now, time to rest, just close your eyes. You might feel a slight scratch on your arm.