Quote from Intrepid :

What do you mean by 'civilised' society. Some of the most civilised people I know are Americans. Just look at their democratic system. It's far far more advanced and accountable than ours Becky.

I know a few civilised Americans too, but their society is horrid to me. Politically speaking i'm just right of communism, I happen to know from your posts you are by all accounts nearer to fascism on the left/right spectrum, you may even be right of it. Whilst sociopolitically we do not and probably never will agree on anything, we can still treat each other with respect as people and get along just fine.

The difference between a civilised person, and a civilised society, is a great one.

At the risk of venturing off topic slightly: Civilised societies, in my view, don't treat their sick like America does. Whilst that is a seperate debate, it stems right to the heart of my original statement. I was responding to a post that was despairing over capitalism and deregulation of social structure in favour of a money-driven one. Nowhere is this more pronounced than in America - where even Healthcare is monetarily driven.

I merely suggested he might be more at home in a country that isn't so capitalistic and so far right on the political spectrum. A civilised country, you know, one where the people look out for each other and consider money important but not what life is all about.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I know a few civilised Americans too, but their society is horrid to me. Politically speaking i'm just right of communism, I happen to know from your posts you are by all accounts nearer to fascism on the left/right spectrum, you may even be right of it. Whilst sociopolitically we do not and probably never will agree on anything, we can still treat each other with respect as people and get along just fine.

I am no where near Fascism. Fascists believe in social and economic intervention (price controls, and wage controls something I believe you suggested not long back Becky 5 million wealth cap) which I do not, I couldn't be further away. You'll find the economic and social policies (mass nationalisation etc...) of fascism is of the far-left and not far-right.

as i understand, theres always debt laid upon me, so i have to work hard to keep up the race against growing debts...
Debt in our world today is the ultimate mean of control.
Not brute force, debt.

watch "zeitgeist addendum" this film describes the workings of the american monetary system. (...is worth legal tender...).

regards

Quote from Intrepid :

What exactly do you mean by 'disparity of monetary reward'. Someone's value is dictated by the market. If you are someone that can do something someone else can't do you are very valuable. if you are a low skilled labourer doing a simple job most people can do then your aren't very valuable. I can't see a disparity.

No, I imagine you can't. It's far more complex than I think you're able to conceive and involves many factors encompassing social acceptance and opportunity, access to capital, market burden and many other elements.

Quote from Intrepid :

To address your point about ITV. I am not sure what your trying to say.

I don't know why that would surprise me.

Quote from Intrepid :

Are you saying their advertising prices means prices on the high street are increased, and thus means ITV isn't 'free'? I personally don't see a problem at all with how ITV prices it's product - viewers. They are of inherent value to a company wishing to promote it's product. Without these avenues of communication with a potential customer the businesses would fail An increased customer base also allows economics of scale which could see prices DROP.

Your inability to comprehend this market, even from the simplest standpoint of a casual observer, just blows me away.

I love how you intermix (or do you confuse?) ITV's audience product (its ad service) with an advertiser's product price point and manage to conclude that products are cheaper because companies have large TV advertising budgets. Go Alan!

Quote from kaynd :

The more crowded the place gets, the more like it is for killing to start.

And that's when the Consumer Elemental whisks in and numbs everyone down with it's Spontaneous Purchase area effect spell and waving a Bag of Shiny Things around.

Have you heard about Zeitgeist? Watch it You can skip the first part and watch directly Zeitgeist Addendum

Quote from SamH :

No, I imagine you can't.

It's interesting how quickly people get so patronising and derogatory on the forum, especially from a moderator and a representative of LFS.

While I just make a point you return with "haha your stupid". that says more about your level of an understanding of a subject than it does about mine. I bet you don't even know who Ludwig von Mises is! (and don't google him you cop out lol )

Don't want to go on this subject which never ends, but there are ppls thinking about alternatives to monetary system, like the resource based economy ( http://www.thevenusproject.com ... gn/resource-based-economy ) from the venus project: http://www.thevenusproject.com/

Quote from Becky Rose :

I know a few civilised Americans too, but their society is horrid to me.

For what it's worth, having lived in the US during the latter Clinton and early Bush years, I left very disillusioned. I was attracted by something of a Hollywood allure that, when up-close and personal, actually turned out to be the thinnest of veneers. The reality of American society is, I found, selfish, fickle and cruel. But I'm FAR from being left wing politically, except in comparison with centre-American politics which are comparatively pretty extreme right-wing.

The American people are, in large part, like we are, but without exposure to genuinely compassionate, comparative ethics. Though of course it's a broad over-generalisation, nevertheless Americans are an awful lot like that spoiled only child that's never learned to share, and as a result doesn't play well with others.

One man's selfish is another man's independent and free.

One man's compassionate society is another man's over controlled and nannied society

Quote from Intrepid :

It's interesting how quickly people get so patronising and derogatory on the forum, especially from a moderator and a representative of LFS.

I'm a member of this community, not a representative of LFS. You'll get no mileage out of trying to use the fact that I'm a moderator as a lever against me in any discussion on this forum. Shame on you for trying.

Yes, I'm often condescending in your direction, Alan. You make it so difficult to resist. Do you do that deliberately?

Quote from SamH :

Yes, I'm often condescending in your direction, Alan. You make it so difficult to resist. Do you do that deliberately?

While me and Becky Rose oppose each other on most issues she and we have never felt the need to patronise each other (though I may have fallen victim to it in the past).

it's only when someone isn't fully confident in their view or stand point do they resort to such actions.

And yes you do represent LFS! You maintain and moderate their forum.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Many people would rather sit on their arse doing nothing than actually contribute to a community by working.

But if they did, everyone would just starve and the human race would die.

Anyway, I suppose those who say that it's greed that's the problem, not money are correct. Before it would be possible to abolish a monetary system, everyone would have to consider themselves as equals, and not think of items as being personal possessions. Which is not, in my opinion "impossible" but rather improbable. One can always hope though. Who knows what society will be like in 1000 years.

Quote from JPeace :

why does most forum threads often come to intrepid vs mods, or other people.

just because you dissagree, doesnt mean you need to have a massive debate or argument about it. cant we all get on? lol..

lol Not my fault. I am never the one replying to my posts in a derogatory manner.

Quote from Intrepid :

While me and Becky Rose oppose each other on most issues she and we have never felt the need to patronise each other (though I may have fallen victim to it in the past).

Indeed you have. Perhaps that's one reason I have no issue with challenging your posts.

I have always called it as I see it. I don't see how it can be okay for one person to post utter tripe, but not for another person to point out that it's tripe. If you can't do that, there's no room for progress in a discussion. Only a person who's unhappy about being frequently challenged on their nonsensical ideas would take issue with the way that normal discourse functions.

Quote from Intrepid :

it's only when someone isn't fully confident in their view or stand point do they resort to such actions.

It also happens when someone is infuriated by what they perceive as nonsense, being posted as if it were fact. That sure annoys me.

Quote from Intrepid :

And yes you do represent LFS! You maintain and moderate their forum.

I don't represent LFS, I'm one of several community members who moderate the forum for the benefit of the community as a whole. I may challenge the stuff you post, Alan, but I don't think I've ever moderated it.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

But if they did, everyone would just starve and the human race would die.

Anyway, I suppose those who say that it's greed that's the problem, not money are correct. Before it would be possible to abolish a monetary system, everyone would have to consider themselves as equals, and not think of items as being personal possessions. Which is not, in my opinion "impossible" but rather improbable. One can always hope though. Who knows what society will be like in 1000 years.

Life is by definition greedy. You consume the earth and it's resources to stay alive..To not be greedy is to die. That's the inherent and gaping flaw in your argument.

now SamH has seent he light I'll remove this post

Quote from Intrepid :

Life is by definition greedy. You consume the earth and it's resources to stay alive..To not be greedy is to die. That's the inherent and gaping flaw in your argument.

Just when I get done suggesting you never make a reasonable post, you go and prove me wrong. Git

Quote from SamH :

Just when I get done suggesting you never make a reasonable post, you go and prove me wrong. Git

Now SamH, you're learning

Quote from Framaris :

Don't want to go on this subject which never ends, but there are ppls thinking about alternatives to monetary system, like the resource based economy ( http://www.thevenusproject.com ... gn/resource-based-economy ) from the venus project: http://www.thevenusproject.com/

I like the "Research Center For Sale" sign in the header. Will they stick to their theories and exchange it for cheese?

Quote from Intrepid :

Life is by definition greedy. You consume the earth and it's resources to stay alive..To not be greedy is to die.

Not entirely true. Mechanics of living organisms that rely on constant (greedy) consumption usually have (or perhaps evolve, who knows) a countering/balancing mechanism internally or have an antagonizing organism which keeps them in check - otherwise they usually face extinction.

Quote from Intrepid :

I have no concerns about someone challenging my views. but you don't. This is your process

"You stupid, you don't understand"

There is no room for progressive discussion with your attitude.

My last post on this subject* I only say that when it's seemingly obvious that you don't understand. I promise I will try and lighten up, Alan. I'm sure you're right and I do give you a much harder time than is fair.

* I'm actually working on a merchandising presentation for the Trading Dept at ASDA House tomorrow. I'm touring stores this afternoon to take photos. No shit.

The closest thing to a possible community where money isnt as important as it is now, is communism. And I dont think many people want that.

Money has become a very important part of the way humanity works, and it cant be removed. Same with religions, governments, public entertainment etc.. We all know we dont really need them to survive, yet we know they will always be there.
Its just because we are with so many people (7billion), who all have differents thoughts. Money, religions, governments bring together these different thinking people because they relate to their common needs.

These fundamentals of humanity can only be removed/changed, if humanity has to restart from scratch. Probably after a natural distaster or nuclear war where 95% of all humans are killed.

It will happen someday and we wont be around

Quote from JPeace :

why does most forum threads often come to intrepid vs mods, or other people.

Good question. :doh:

I think its because some people are rejecting reality and substituting their own.

Too many people demand that you that you respect their (evidently very important) opinions, but can they return the favour? Of course not. People love freedom of speech so long as its in favour of them, very shallow, hypocritical people.

Freedom of speech works both ways and that is arguably why it sucks.

Quote :

My last post on this subject

Becky's Rule #1 of Internet Forum Flamewaring: NEVER post you are leaving a thread/forum. 99 times in 100 you will be heckled back and look like an ass.

Learned from bitter experience that one...

No money = no S2 license = bad.



But still, i would quite like to climb back into the trees and eat bananas. But the main problem is, that there aren't any bananatrees in Lithuania :sadbanana