The solution I like is to allow a set lap time threshold.
For example the drivers personal best time must be 105% of WR time or the fastest driver time in the race. I think there used to be a rule like this in F1.
Or use qualifying time or hotlap etc. Too bad simgle player race times arent logged.
Then if too slow you would recive a mesage "Too slow please practice more" and then get moved to spectate.

I am of course speculating that the crashers arent very fast. But I think that is probably correct.

Some of the funnest races I have had were with mixed car races. With the beginners in say, UF1 and experienced drivers in BF1.

So if you could set up:

Allow BF1 if PB > 105%
Allow FOX if PB > 120%

My 2 cents.

(Oh, and bring back the old F08! The new update totaly destroyed it )

Quote from max-dog :

(Oh, and bring back the old F08! The new update totaly destroyed it )

New FO8 rules!

Sorry for Off-Topic.

Quote from max-dog :

The solution I like is to allow a set lap time threshold.
For example the drivers personal best time must be 105% of WR time or the fastest driver time in the race. I think there used to be a rule like this in F1.
Or use qualifying time or hotlap etc. Too bad simgle player race times arent logged.
Then if too slow you would recive a mesage "Too slow please practice more" and then get moved to spectate.

I am of course speculating that the crashers arent very fast. But I think that is probably correct.

Some of the funnest races I have had were with mixed car races. With the beginners in say, UF1 and experienced drivers in BF1.

So if you could set up:

Allow BF1 if PB > 105%
Allow FOX if PB > 120%

Unfortunately this approach would also target improving drivers, and this community has a good reputation for helping them. We want to encourage and help new/slow drivers...don't we?

Serp.

If I get wrecked I usually not immediately start a vote. If it happens more than once though I'll start a vote myself or vote with the rest.
But I also must have seen it happen or really trust the person initiating the vote.

I'm not experiencing a lot of wrecking to be honest. So I do not believe it is that big of a problem, but I agree that the first impression of LFS can be bad if your first outing accidentily is on a server with wreckers.

The wreckers I've sometimes seen are actually good racers and just seem to do it out of boredom. They are fully aware of what they are doing and reasoning with them is just not an option really.

I think the initiative for the the Clean Server Club is excellent and in my opinion is good enough. Together with the CRC (of which I still need to become accepted as a member (help me out there please! ) this could mean that the driving can be as fair as possible.

The percentage of laptime idea is not good imo, because people will need to improve and I've also been in fights for position where laptimes drop enormously because of the close racing, passing, repassing and general brakepoints missing for all parties involved. It's fun and clean, but just slowing you down big time.

All in all though for me it is just a game to have fun. A pile up in T1 never prompts me to restart, I'll just start driving from the back and see if I can catch up and maybe pass a few people. That is more fun then driving alone in front anyway. Besides I like watching other people fight for places and don't mind driving a race behind such a fight and learn.

Back on topic:
Things that should be active on all servers:

- kick when driving backwards should be enabled
- spectate when idling on track for more than e.g. 15 secs should be enabled. (idling is anything e.g. < 30 km/h)

There's also a possibility to enforce certain lap or split times within a reasonable range. Most wreckers I've seen (not many) were standing around somewhere most of the time. Not meeting the time requirements could result in pitting and not being able to join again.

The time limit should of course take account of slower racers and allow a t1 pileup and some spins on the track... It should not be noticed by anybody who tries to complete the track.

On the other hand, there are still plenty of ways to wreck others.

Better stick with the LFS principle... better physics and engine damage would certainly not allow more than one heavy crash.

I assume it is relatively easy to make the car's engine simply stop working after a certain amount of deformation on the front (or wherever the engine is located). Blocking the wheels after bending them over a certain angle would also help (and increase realism). And maybe just kill the driver after experiencing more than, say 80G acceleration. Just for really, really bad crashes. This would include having to fix the pit entry of South City (Club?) where flying around for touching the walls slightly (i.e not frontal) is not so rare for me...

This, of course, would also hurt the one being wrecked. But only once...

The number of deaths could in some way used to restrict joining servers and in general improve more careful driving. It could be automaticaly decreased over time... 3 unlocks per Month, 30 lives for online racing

The basic assumtion is that wrecking people need far more lives than normal driving ones, including new drivers who sometimes hit the wall...

So all we need is another (crash) physics update

Quote from Serpentine :

Unfortunately this approach would also target improving drivers, and this community has a good reputation for helping them. We want to encourage and help new/slow drivers...don't we?

Serp.

Exactly.

I barely crash myself,but I am just not that fast. I have no idea if I would pass it or not,but if I can't,that would suck actually,since I wouldn't be able to race then. Not that I am online with LFS for that much,but I'm sure there are other guys with the same scenario.

If you read back a few posts, you'll see that's not what Sternendaal is referring to.

Quote from Honey :

to me a solution could be a server based crash recording (maximum 10 or 20 seconds) in mpr format wich the server will upload directly to lfs master server. such thing will record usernames involved in car by car contacts and scores a negative point for each of that player. crash record and report will be triggered either by "high speed" crashes automatically or by at least 3 users voting for "crash report".

I would have loved an option like this a week or so ago.. I was home for lunch and a 5 lap race on Aston North before heading back to work. Right at the end of the race some ass parked on the verge drove in front of me just as I was coming up the backstretch hunting down 3rd place.

Quote from Execution Style :

I was home for lunch and a 5 lap race on Aston North before heading back to work

What a addiction to LFS

I know what you're saying Fordman, it seems that the more popular the game gets, the more morons it attracts. For example, just today I was thinking of trying out the new BF1 after being away from LFS for almost a year (that was caused by a general lack of interest, but also the amount of race destroying idiots that had suddenly appeared after S2), so I join a race, pay attention to all the people fighting for positions, staying away from the raceline and driving at around 90% speed etc, all to make sure I don't cause any trouble.

However, and this is something you had to see to believe, two idiots decide the best place to race is on the complete opposite side of the raceline in a corner, thus crashing into me at full speed. What happens next is not a "sorry", or "darn, that didn't work ^_^" like you would expect but a "FFS!!11" with a nice little /vote kick for me. illepall

The price of popularity...

Quote from Execution Style :

Quote from Honey :

to me a solution could be a server based crash recording (maximum 10 or 20 seconds) in mpr format wich the server will upload directly to lfs master server. such thing will record usernames involved in car by car contacts and scores a negative point for each of that player. crash record and report will be triggered either by "high speed" crashes automatically or by at least 3 users voting for "crash report".

I would have loved an option like this a week or so ago.. I was home for lunch and a 5 lap race on Aston North before heading back to work. Right at the end of the race some ass parked on the verge drove in front of me just as I was coming up the backstretch hunting down 3rd place.

to me this is the only way, because bans are not reliable: too many times i saw the innocent victim being banned instead of the crasher, some times i saw the wrecker making his team mates join the server to do a ban vote -> the worst thing ever...

also the uploading of the crash replay will keep into the lfs database the hystory of accidents of every user so that devs or server admins may decide to ban for a very long time the irriducible worst wreckers...

Quote from Tigershark :

I know what you're saying Fordman, it seems that the more popular the game gets, the more morons it attracts. For example, just today I was thinking of trying out the new BF1 after being away from LFS for almost a year (that was caused by a general lack of interest, but also the amount of race destroying idiots that had suddenly appeared after S2), so I join a race, pay attention to all the people fighting for positions, staying away from the raceline and driving at around 90% speed etc, all to make sure I don't cause any trouble.

However, and this is something you had to see to believe, two idiots decide the best place to race is on the complete opposite side of the raceline in a corner, thus crashing into me at full speed. What happens next is not a "sorry", or "darn, that didn't work ^_^" like you would expect but a "FFS!!11" with a nice little /vote kick for me. illepall

The price of popularity...

I feel for ya Tiger, and Welcome Back ( I think ). What we need is for all server admins is to instigate the "Auto Spectate if Driving wrong way " option through the server options. Maybe this is a more feesable option to begin with.

If the "idiots" cannot go the wrong way, then maybe they might think, "damn this going around the right way is kinda fun" Its easier to avoid people going the right way than it is going the wrong way?

Maybe this is a good option?

Whats your thoughts on this Guys & Girls

Quote from Fordman :

I feel for ya Tiger, and Welcome Back ( I think ). What we need is for all server admins is to instigate the "Auto Spectate if Driving wrong way " option through the server options. Maybe this is a more feesable option to begin with.

If the "idiots" cannot go the wrong way, then maybe they might think, "damn this going around the right way is kinda fun" Its easier to avoid people going the right way than it is going the wrong way?

Maybe this is a good option?

Whats your thoughts on this Guys & Girls

Hmm...isnt there option already on server side to get kicked/banned driving wrong way?

Quote from Fordman :

I feel for ya Tiger, and Welcome Back ( I think ). What we need is for all server admins is to instigate the "Auto Spectate if Driving wrong way " option through the server options. Maybe this is a more feesable option to begin with.

If the "idiots" cannot go the wrong way, then maybe they might think, "damn this going around the right way is kinda fun" Its easier to avoid people going the right way than it is going the wrong way?

Maybe this is a good option?

Whats your thoughts on this Guys & Girls

surely the autospectate on wrong way is a must (better than the autodisconnect imho), also if possible it would be nice to have a server message that warns for "campers" like it was on unreal tournament (a friend of mine's idea )

Quote from Fordman :

I feel for ya Tiger, and Welcome Back ( I think ). What we need is for all server admins is to instigate the "Auto Spectate if Driving wrong way " option through the server options. Maybe this is a more feesable option to begin with.

If the "idiots" cannot go the wrong way, then maybe they might think, "damn this going around the right way is kinda fun" Its easier to avoid people going the right way than it is going the wrong way?

Maybe this is a good option?

Whats your thoughts on this Guys & Girls

How long does it take to kick you if you are going the other way. the reason i ask is because i spun the mrt @ SO up against the barrier the other night, having no reverse meant i had to go the wrong way to turn round. immediately WRONG WAY flashes up, if its based on time, then i could be banned for doing a u turn??!?

does that make sense?

Quote from mrfell :

How long does it take to kick you if you are going the other way. the reason i ask is because i spun the mrt @ SO up against the barrier the other night, having no reverse meant i had to go the wrong way to turn round. immediately WRONG WAY flashes up, if its based on time, then i could be banned for doing a u turn??!?

does that make sense?

No it doesn't ban you, it puts you into Spectate mode, so you cannot do anybody any harm, and also your don't get removed from the server itself.

Yes Devil there is, but the Admins need to set this.

Quote from Fordman :

Yes Devil there is, but the Admins need to set this.

Then the problem is also very much on the admin sites.I remember how people were moaning for this feature hence nobody using it now?

I know there are also other issues not related to going wrong way

hmmm auto spectate for laptimes higher than say a minute (depending on the length of the track of course) above the average of the other players might be a solution

I have had S2 for barely two months and still consider myself a complete novice. (I haven't figured out how to download and arrange some of the fancy setups yet). With only 2000 miles behind me I am in awe of the hot lap times of some of my opponents. I can see when I join a host that, simply judging by their best laps that I'm going to be out of my depth, indeed the only time I know I'm going to get a tight race is when I race my brother, equally non-fancy-setup-aware!
IF I knew that I could join a server where the standard was ten seconds slower than the fastest around (i.e. 8 seconds a lap on south City) I would reckon on a competitive race.
The other night I went on Clownpaint and raced Kyoto National, stayed well in to the side and kept back and still got knocked about and somewhat traumatized.
Having some servers who are known NOT to be the fastest around might be an attraction. It would be for me.

Im sorry, i just dont like the idea of seperating the fast from the slow, fair enough in league events, but otherwise you just going to create elite servers for the super fast and all the slower guys get to race against all the slower people... Just doesnt seem right to me.

But here in this thread, there are some great ideas starting to form.

Quote from Shotglass :

hmmm auto spectate for laptimes higher than say a minute (depending on the length of the track of course) above the average of the other players might be a solution

...i was going to say "wow! that's a smart idea!" but there is a big BUT: if i am at the middle of a race and an accidents happens or i blow a tire, i need to go very slow to the pits...you know i'm very stubborn :P i always want to finish races (almost always), many times a crappy race of mine ruined by accidents or wreckers ended with me at podium -> u'll never know how a race could end

Quote from Honey :

...i was going to say "wow! that's a smart idea!" but there is a big BUT: if i am at the middle of a race and an accidents happens or i blow a tire, i need to go very slow to the pits...you know i'm very stubborn :P i always want to finish races (almost always), many times a crappy race of mine ruined by accidents or wreckers ended with me at podium -> u'll never know how a race could end

its just a rough idea ... youd obviously have to find a balance between enabling players to limp back to the pits and sending wreckers to spec fast

but lets say a driver has a sector time well above the lap times of the others or gets lapped twice without even moving from one sector to another that would most certainly be a wrecker

The old CRC system fell apart in the end. It was too complex to keep running and people ended up not using the servers even when they were available.

In ways a hardcore type option on servers does solve some of the issues.

If things like reset car and jump to pits are disabled and there are no mid race starts on these server it becomes less fun for the wrecker.

If they have to wait 5 laps once they get on a server then get one go at wrecking before they are forced to retire because they end on their roof or their car is dead and then wait more laps for the next race to finish it removes much of their fun. It also gives the people on the server the time to decide if they want to kick/ban the user from that server.

Also ban votes should be allowed to complete EVEN if the wrecker leaves part way through the vote.

Wreckers will soon learn their best fun is on normal pickup servers.

So this would work similar to CRC in that it would help put off noobs and wreckers on HC servers. Just a thought.

.

Why doesn't someone create a wrecker pit, there's one for NR2003, and it's fun for those who like that sort of thing.