Theres no excuse really for what he did. You don't just do that and not realise, you do it because you want to take advantage of a bug to be the best. Whats to say he doesn't do it again making use of any other bugs or even applications.

How people doing this sort of thing take any glory for getting a WR by cheating, I don't know :/

Keiran

In computer security sending this hotlap is called "proof of concept" or "exploit" : it is a common term to refer to a piece of software that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability.

Why hackers made most exploit publicly available (like this hotlap) ? illepall

The main reason is to speed up the release of a software patch ! If you don't do that, this will take a lot of time because for software compagny it's always better to release new softwares (they win $$$) than fixing old ones (they lost $$$)

So if you want to ban him, you are just stupid : it was only a "proof of concept". If he was using this to be first in all hotlaps, yes it was just a cheat and not a "PoC", and you should ban him forever. But this is not the case !

Be smart guys, make the good choice...

Quote from Eldanor :

DasBoese: There are other LFS forums you know...

So what?

@Phlos - Did he post here to inform the Devs? Did he try to inform the Devs at all? Not as far as I know.....

Showing that an exploit works to increase the preasure for a new patch is an old concept, but it does not have to work this way with LFS, right?

LFS is not Microsoft.....here you can TALK to the Devs.....AND: THEY LISTEN AND CARE!

Quote from Tweaker :

Kind of silly that nobody has ever thought of this until now. Hope it gets fixed.

It's not the first time. I seem to remember this happening pre-s2 at one of the short configs, and I am pretty sure it was fixed then. Unfortunately I could not get the search parameters right to dig up the thread.

Quote from DasBoeseC :

@Phlos - Did he post here to inform the Devs? Did he try to inform the Devs at all? Not as far as I know.....

Showing that an exploit works to increase the preasure for a new patch is an old concept, but it does not have to work this way with LFS, right?

LFS is not Microsoft.....here you can TALK to the Devs.....AND: THEY LISTEN AND CARE!

Good point but if he didn't used this "stuff" to get all WR (or at least "many"), it is a Proof of Concept and not a Cheat !

Anyway I think he just did one WR with this "bug", so it's clearly a "PoC".

Are you gonna ban him for a "PoC" ? illepall
Devs should only ban cheaters, not "hackers" that help improving LFS to be "bug-free"

Quote from Phlos :

"hackers" that help improving LFS to be "bug-free"

I bet you mean yourself .
Hi Phlos ;-)

Quote from keiran :

How people doing this sort of thing take any glory for getting a WR by cheating, I don't know :/

Ok, I agree with you, but ther isn't any post saying "I'm the best" In fact, the hotlap was online only for some hours, and he didn't delete it because of this thread, in fact, I doubt he knows this thread exists.

@DasBoesec: Of course he did, using the "contact us" section of the LFS homepage.

@Phlos: Perfectly explained! I thought I was the only one to see it!!

I think there's some WR paranoia going on...

LOL yea Phlos like I'd listen to your wisdom on the situation, people just have to search Google for your name and find all the so called PoC

http://www.phlos.com - take a look under video games, especially English

He wanted the glory of having a WR, full stop. Had he wanted to prove a bug he would have posted on these forums his replay or in your "PoC" he would have posted a link to LFSW. He posted that WR obviously in the hope nobody would notice that he used effectively a cheat and think he was the quickest guy alive.

@Eldanor
Funny how it took a thread for him or it could have been Victor to delete it. The only reason I do hotlapping is to try be the quickest or in some cases to get entry to leagues, you don't just upload a WR time for the sake of doing it. You upload it to be the best.

Keiran

Yes I like PoC, it is good to eat

@DEVIL 007 : Hi !
@keiran : Thank you for advertising :jester:

But you are wrong about the guy that made the hotlap. Proof ?
"Of course he did, using the "contact us" section of the LFS homepage."

Now you can go away from this topic...

There are other ways to contact the devs, and so he did.

Quote from kerian :

He wanted the glory of having a WR, full stop.

Do you have any proof? I'll show you something:

Quote from QTPTN :

NOTA: CREO QUE ESTO ES UN FALLO DEL JUEGO QUE DEBERÍA SUBSANARSE, LUEGO LO BORRO
...
Si se puede grabar un tiempo así, puede haber algún "listo" que se marque un WR de ese modo, aunque se puede ver la repe y no creo que nadie sea tan tonto.
¿Alguíen lo sabía? ma ha pasado sin darme cuenta calentando las gomas
...
Yeeeee, que ya he dicho que era un fallo del juego, ¿habeís leido lo que he puesto 2 líneas más abajo?

Vale, lo borro ya que hay muy poco sentido del humos por aquí.

PD. A los admis del foro: podríais comentarlo con Scawen

There is a quote in my country that says: "Piensa el ladrón, que todos son de su condición"

So, this goes to everyone: STOP judging people with no reason, or at least, ask first what happened.

EDIT: Is not my intention to sound rude in my posts ok? So read them as they are, an explanation of things and a try to stop this nonsense argue.

The Proof of Concept is that it registered the lap and the anti-cheat system in hot lapping mode said it was a valid lap. He didn't need to upload it to proove any concept at all, that's is what is making everyone just say "Yeah right".

That really is all there is too it, it's not the actions of somebody doing PoC, however if he contacted the devs that clears it up, if he didnt, well we only have your word for it but ... I really dont care either way.

If people want to screw around I dont mind, so long as they dont do it on the server i'm racing I couldn't care if you got your rocks off sifting through a rubbish site, each to their own. My own is racing, and that's all I care about.

I've never once looked at the name of a WR holder, I dont even know were to look or care too. If they beat me in a race, that I care about

It's a proof of concept...

And here's how it's supposed to be done:

You do something that you should not be able to...
You tell as few people as possible, and inform the responsible people (or have them informed)...
You give them a friendly ultimatum to fix it.
If it's not fixed: You spread the word to as many people as possible, so the responsible people soon find their stuff compromised because of their own mistake and neglect.

And usually it ends with you being arrested by the feds for a computer crime...

Quote from Becky Rose :

The Proof of Concept is that it registered the lap and the anti-cheat system in hot lapping mode said it was a valid lap. He didn't need to upload it to proove any concept at all, that's is what is making everyone just say "Yeah right".

Actually, the proof of concept is that it was deemed HLVC compatible by LFS, and registered as a full lap by LFSW... (LFSW does indeed perform checks as I understand).

Quote from Becky Rose :

If they beat me in a race, that I care about

So you care about me

Phlos,

Arrogance won't get you anywhere within the LFS community. 8 posts in 6 months, 6 of which have been in this thread. Need I say anymore?

Oh no :doh:
I often make "weird joke", it's not arrogant things at all...

Quote from Phlos :

Oh no :doh:
I often make "weird joke", it's not arrogant things at all...

Ok I'll let you off....

Quote :

So you care about me

I dont care about anyone who pirates software. I'm a programmer...

In the trade we have numerous words for you, and none are suiteable for viewing by children , except maybe bath scum, but that's only the start of a whole paragraph of abuse !...

I'm sorry but i don't pirate softwares Becky Rose
Believe me or not, but I bought most softwares/games I use, around 90%. illepall

And that's really big percentage : most young people (like me) buy only 20% of softwares in France...even 0% for some of them...
Maybe you have even more pirated softwares than me !

So please don't lie about me I hate that, you don't know me.

NB : If you thought I pirate softwares because, for example, I released a NOCD on my website, you are totally wrong. I use NOCD to prevent using original CD/DVD in my drive (too bad to insert all CD/DVD when you play a game !), nothing more (and many people do that)

[Sorry for being "off topic", but I hate people lying about me ]

What I can't understand about you Phlos is you come out with the same reasons for your NOCD stuff. Yet when I got onto your site plenty of people are asking for cracks and junk like that

Quote :

i download this game but i don't find a crack have you a crack for this game?

Any respectable forum would have deleted and banned a user yet you let plenty of people ask these sort of questions, which a NOCD probaly helps most of these people crack a game.

And what I answer to those people ? Nothing or I told them to go away.

Why I don't delete/ban them ? Because anyone can say anything if it's not a personal offense against someone else (or useless posts, like flood). Yes my forum is not censured, I hate censure.

Okay.....lets say he contacted the Devs using the "Contact us" section - Why did he upload that lap then?

To me it is one thing to inform the responsible guys about an exploit - actually using the exploit is something different, right?

You know.....I really do not care about Hotlaps that much, but if someone brakes the rules he has to face the consequences.....

Quote from DasBoeseC :

Okay.....lets say he contacted the Devs using the "Contact us" section - Why did he upload that lap then?

To me it is one thing to inform the responsible guys about an exploit - actually using the exploit is something different, right?

You know.....I really do not care about Hotlaps that much, but if someone brakes the rules he has to face the consequences.....

How many people posted replays with the Nose up exploit?

To the people saying he wanted the 'glory' of owning a single solitary world record for a tiny niche game of which nearly everyone in the world has never heard: how much glory would you say that is, exactly? :\

Calm down guys.
This big spanish league seems to use hotlaps to get their grids.
So he knows, if he uploads the replay most of the spanish will watch the new WR, which is 10 sec. faster.
So it's almost impossible he has done it and hoped nobody will recognize it.

Banning him from hotlapping would be a bad joke, for me there's a difference to those people, who used mechanics to get WRs.

And don't blame people if you don't know what was going on, right DBC?