Quote from Shotglass :

sounds realistic to me ... effect of going beyond the traction circle

Exactly. Lost grip is lost grip no matter how it's lost, it's still lost grip :drugs:

Quote from J.B. :

Yes, I remember having this problem with some of the road cars a while ago. It seems that this is because in LFS you can induce understeer by trail braking if the slip ratio gets high while braking. I don't know how realistic this is though.

Try setting the brake balance further back.

Could it be that the car is out of shape before you foot comes of the brakes and the change in balance just makes the situation worse? I have heard people report not hearing the wheels lock it only one does.

Watch you replay when you think it happens and see if the rear has steped out before you come off the brakes. Remember you will feel oversteer far later through your wheel you would feel the shift in G through your body that you would get IRL.

Also where people say induced understeer under tail braking I wonder if they have locked the wheels and do not realise as this would then cause understeer like effect?

Quote from Woz :

Also where people say induced understeer under tail braking I wonder if they have locked the wheels and do not realise as this would then cause understeer like effect?

when youre trailbraking you can get understeer far before the wheels are locked

and if youre in that sort of situation and let go off the brakes the front will more or less suddenly byte again
now if youre an inexpierienced driver most likely you will have oversteered (as in turning the wheel too far) while understeering in the hope of somehow getting the nose to turn in linke this
the overall effect of this should be that the front suddenly pulls into the corner violently dragging the rear behind it

Quote from Hallen :

The only thing I find to be a problem for me is the massive oversteer when you are letting off the brakes going into a corner. The rear just snaps around. I find this behavior difficult to drive with and I am not sure how to cure it. I think some drivers use this behavior to their advantage.
Even the Race_S set has this "feature".

heh, oversteer when releasing the brake is very useful, but you have to learn how . If brake too late and too heavy, or you're not smooth coming off the pedal, and turning the car, you can lose the tail - especially if you are driving a 'fast' setup.
First try altering your driving - brake a little earlier, and stightly less heavily, start releasing the brake earlier, but much slower - ideally you will only have completely released the brake just as you want to start increasing the gas
another thing is in a corner that you find too twitchy, try keeping a little throttle through the turn (just a touch, to keep the car balanced).

If you're still having problems, you can reduce the trailbrake oversteer effect with dampers: Front rebound +, Rear bump -
(one click each, and test - this will also add corner exit oversteer, so be careful)
(Make sure you're not locking a rear - try brake balance more forward)

Or make the whole car more understeery with sway bars and/or shock adjustments (will slow you down)

Quote from Hallen :

The only thing I find to be a problem for me is the massive oversteer when you are letting off the brakes going into a corner. The rear just snaps around. I find this behavior difficult to drive with and I am not sure how to cure it. I think some drivers use this behavior to their advantage.
Even the Race_S set has this "feature".

my cooper s does that too, a lot i must say
light ass eheh
even the oversteer, i find it quite realistic, when comparing to my car with dsc off.

Quote from XsX! :

my cooper s does that too, a lot i must say
light ass eheh
even the oversteer, i find it quite realistic, when comparing to my car with dsc off.

Yep, Minis car get real tail happy but that is their charm

every "great handling" fwd car i've ever driven, rode in, read about etc has had lift off oversteer which is naturally more pronounced if braking (unless the front wheels are locked), its this very charectoristic that forms part of the "safe" handling charectoristics that fwd cars possess, along with power on understeer.

ive even driven a few road fwd cars that have had power on oversteer but i sure as hell wouldn't recomend it for everyday use as it has a sting in the tail (pardon the pun) i.e. if your already power on and the tail is sliding , then how the hell do you stop accelerating without provoking a larger slide, metro turbo with faulty rear subframe bushes scared me more than any other road car ever has when it did this on some s bends at about 70 mph. of course for competition cars if you can dial out the power on understeer, you can accelerate earlier / harder through the bends and can usually live with the limited options for changing throttle position at the limit.

if your really finding the tail too loose then work on setup to make the tail stick more ( basically softer and less antiroll bar makes suspension stick more, harder and more antiroll bar makes it grip less, so firmer on front, softer on rear, this also keeps more wieght on rear when your slowing ) and move your braking foward ( if youve seperate pedals you can run with a severe front balance and tune it on the road by keeping some power on whilst braking but dont bother about that now).

also you can change driving style to stop oversteer, drive it like an old 911, i.e. brake / slow in straight line, turn in and then accelerate, its not as fast but its safe

Quote from tinvek :

i.e. if your already power on and the tail is sliding , then how the hell do you stop accelerating without provoking a larger slide, metro turbo with faulty rear subframe bushes scared me more than any other road car ever has when it did this on some s bends at about 70 mph.

Reminds me of my first car, a Firefly Turbo, pretty much the same car.
The answer to the oversteer was a stab on the throttle which would
cause a 4 wheel drift, weeee , until it's scary again.

I'll have to try out the GTi/GTR more to notice this oversteer 'anomaly',
but seems most here have a valid point about the brake balance. If
your car understeers under braking, releasing the brakes would surely
allow the front to regain grip and logically making the rear suddenly
oversteer. Again, i haven't driven them anough to really know what i'm
talking about.

I'm still waiting for that happy tale ...

Quote from col :

heh, oversteer when releasing the brake is very useful, but you have to learn how . If brake too late and too heavy, or you're not smooth coming off the pedal, and turning the car, you can lose the tail - especially if you are driving a 'fast' setup.
First try altering your driving - brake a little earlier, and stightly less heavily, start releasing the brake earlier, but much slower - ideally you will only have completely released the brake just as you want to start increasing the gas
another thing is in a corner that you find too twitchy, try keeping a little throttle through the turn (just a touch, to keep the car balanced).

If you're still having problems, you can reduce the trailbrake oversteer effect with dampers: Front rebound +, Rear bump -
(one click each, and test - this will also add corner exit oversteer, so be careful)
(Make sure you're not locking a rear - try brake balance more forward)

Or make the whole car more understeery with sway bars and/or shock adjustments (will slow you down)

Thanks for the tips. I do about a 1:34.4 around Blackwood in the GTi. Some sets, this effect is really bad, and if you are aggressive with your trail braking, you will have the rear step out. Yes, braking earlier and being very gentle coming off the gas helps, but you can't always to that in a race.

I found the MacEST set is very nice. It exhibits some of this tendency, but it is advantageous rather than unpredictable. So, a good set will fix this tendency without being so understeery, that it is not fast.