Disappointed to be honest, theres still something very.....wierd with this. In most racing sims/games you can tell where its lacking and where arcade elements creep in etc. But GT5P and now this "DEMO" just have something very strange with how the cars feel and maybe I just need to train my brain abit more to learn the cues the game gives you about what the cars doing but right now this tases like shit sandwich.

Man if this physics engine stays the same, the 500+ hp mid engine rear wheel drive cars are really gonna separate the men from the boys, especially with damage on the Nurb

I bet there will be a huge difference between FF, 4WD, MR and FR cars. I'll end up loving the 4WD cars even more than I do now

Kinda reminds me of NetKar Pro, and less like LFS

Quote from Boris Lozac :

And btw, here's quite an awesome drift from GT5p, in Nissan 350z, if you and i can't do it, doesn't mean it's not possible..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgPfqRG6PjM

I've made two drifting videos of GT5P, Matrixi did some videos too. It's a different story. And i believe even if it's no fun anymore in the GT5 demo, there will be people who adjust to it and manage to do the same drifts. Just because it's hard, doesn't mean it's impossible to do. I'm sure i could manage drifting in this demo (already managed a few drifts when trying, which felt bad, but it's possible), it just wouldn't be much fun and pretty frustrating probably.

Get over it already, it's all just opinions, nobody is telling you to not enjoy it anymore.

Quote from jibber :

Get over it already, it's all just opinions, nobody is telling you to not enjoy it anymore.

lol It's not like i'm upset by these comments, but finally a GT game comes with pretty awesome physics, and all people do is bash it. It sounds like doing a controllable drift in real life is as easy as pie. And the reason why i never enjoyed drifiting in neither sim, is that drifting quite requires the 'butt' feel, maybe even more then FFB, and no game can give you that feel.. and these plastic steering wheels are no good subsitutes for a real wheel, especially in drifting conditions.

TBH with you Boris, i cant help but think a part of the bashing here is because of things you've said earlier. People are saying there are issues with the game physics, and you've been saying its amazing and people are just bitching because they've already made their mind up.

You've quantified your comment better since then, but people are still making comment to whats been said earlier too and dragging it all back up so were going round in circles (like a GT5 370z just over the edge ).

A lot of the game is very good, but an important aspect is still pretty poor. That aspect is what people are predominantly talking about, in between the little forza bitches who are only here to kick up a fuss (like apparently GT folk have in the Forza thread), and trying to understand opinons of people with some RL experience they can offer us to compare against.

Ignore the people who are only here to critisise in less than a sentance, their input is useless, and frankly stinks of alternative motives, but the actual conversation is not 'GT-bashing', its good for the most part, even if its critical. Better than everyone pretending its the best thing since sliced bread and refusing to acknowledge bugs/glitches like other camps have.


Theres definately a problem with it, and its not great that PD have released a demo which is of the game in its purest 'no help' settings, this is supposed to be simulated reality, and the reality of the demo is disappointing once you cross the slip angle on the tyres, because theres no opportunity to correct it or hold it and it insta-spins.
I mentioned before the release that 'pro mode' and no user assists could be a bad way to release a demo to the public, but that was mainly because people like spanks try it and expect to be able to drive it nice and smooth with a joypad (then seem to get their knickers in a bunch when being told this specific mode isnt really designed for them, but the full game with its other modes will catter to them). Seems its doing just that, and even highlighting a fairly important flaw in their engine.

GT Academy will have had a deadline for using this in order to get their 20 contestants to silverstone, before going with 2 drivers and training them up and getting them the experience to obtain the required racing licenses to compete at whichever big event they've picked this time (Dubai 24hr last time, which was iirc Feb '09) so i'd assume they have something planned for Feb '10, and they cant keep waiting. Im hoping that because of this real world deadline, PD pushed something out the door they werent 100% happy with, and its still a WIP. This code wont be current, it'll be at least a month old, so who knows what the latest code feels like. I just hope that Kaz & co know deep down this isnt acceptable as it stands. It'd be a shame if the only mode its playable in is a dumbed down version of reality where the car is more forgiving when going over its limits and trying to bring it back in.

ATM its the only thing bothering me i think, but its something that plays a large part in a simulation mode, and thats all we have to judge things on.

Offcourse, i never said otherwise. Huge counter steers and drifts seem a bitt odd, true, but controlled, 'racing' drive and small countersteer here and there feels really good. Like i said, what works in LFS for a fast lap, works here too... and that's pretty much enough for me.

me trying to drift the tuned 370z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N45cMpamRo

Trying is the right word indeed

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Offcourse, i never said otherwise. Huge counter steers and drifts seem a bitt odd, true, but controlled, 'racing' drive and small countersteer here and there feels really good. Like i said, what works in LFS for a fast lap, works here too... and that's pretty much enough for me.

Oh yes, overall it's a not bad drive... and there are a lot of good things about the GT series. In no way am I a 'hater', I'm closer to a fanboy having played huuuge amounts of GT from 1 to 4. We're not saying the whole thing sucks by any means, just discussing an issue that's rather important to us.

I have noticed a few little good improvements, like the grass is slippery now, and you can't just maintain the same speed round a bend on the grass like always And gravel is slow to get out of... so people are going to have to be a little more careful to stay on track. Lots of good things too And the graphics in GT5P are just stunning.

Why is everybody so upset with the fact that the car is spinning so fast? spinning is nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avlWYj3ja1M

I like it.

---------------------------------

ok serious now from the beginning even in the GT5prologue there was this issue, there is only a small margin within you are under control and can go fast with gt5 Time Trial they made it a little wider but still if you are out of this margin you are slow or flying of the track. I kinda got used to it with gt5prologue, so I actually don´t really bother about it being still in the game. I never Played GTR1, but I heard here and there that GTR1 of Simbin had the same problem so they made it easier for GTR2. Would be nice if PD fix this too for GT5, but the driving is still great as long as you are within the mentioned margin, so I am definitely going to buy this when its out.

I loved GT5 Prologue and I love the GT5 Time Trial

I know the laptimes are nothing special so don´t spam me.

1:40:617 - rank 474
1:52:395 - rank 206

total 3:33:012 - rank 205

still improving, but I've hit a plateau in the tuned car, but plenty of room in the normal Z. And it seems the normal car is harder, hence my higher ranking

I see people hitting way higher speeds in some corners, and there is no way I can go as fast as them through the same turns...

Theres nobody who has posted a bad word about GT5 that hasn't played it so I wouldn't call anyoone a Forza Bitch, it's people who HAVE played it that are slating it, and nobody here has said they didn't like it purely to kick up a fuss, cos not even I've done it. And I probably am the biggest troll here. So saying that will only inflame a further arguement.

When I first tried GT5 demo very briefly with the pad for a few minutes, I thought it was fantastic and a definite improvement over GT5P in all aspects. Then I plugged in the G25 and those emotions were gone when I took the car out for a little slide and found myself fishtailing and shouting "what's happening yo!?" at the force feedback.

The thing is, in GT5P I could do stuff like this, even though I had to cope with the "dead fish" force feedback like someone here said very accurately. In GT5 however, it feels like PD have changed their FFB engine when you oversteer, and the change isn't for the better. Whatever they have done, it doesn't feel anything like a real car would feel when it goes over its limits. It does seem like GTR2 and Shift had sex and GT5 is their bastard child when it comes to driving the cars on their very limits. The race version of the Z isn't quite as nasty since it has better traction and therefore higher limits, but the street car is simply put, abysmal to drive. Also one thing I find funny just like in GT5P, is that while you are in the oval bit of the track, you can turn your steering wheel pretty much all the way to max lock (!) and your car will still keep following the track just fine, only the tires screech a bit. Try it!

Actually what I think has happened, is that PD have pulled off "GT4's" here, if you know what I mean.

I don't think I was too slow with this time trial either to not find out the problems of the engine, last time I checked the scandinavian rankings I was 22nd with the stock car and 50-something with the tuned car before I ragequitted the demo. But like I said, still buying it. Atleast PD have managed to not f#ck up the R32 3d mesh as bad as T10 did.

Quote from PaulC2K :

TBH with you Boris, i cant help but think a part of the bashing here is because of things you've said earlier. People are saying there are issues with the game physics, and you've been saying its amazing and people are just bitching because they've already made their mind up.

A lot of the game is very good, but an important aspect is still pretty poor. That aspect is what people are predominantly talking about, in between the little forza bitches who are only here to kick up a fuss (like apparently GT folk have in the Forza thread), and trying to understand opinons of people with some RL experience they can offer us to compare against.

You see, this is the thing, anyone who you could even remotely label a "forza bitch" has not once (myself included) compared the two since the release of the demo.

People (even "forza bitches") aren't "bashing" the game, all they are doing is expressing an opinion about a certain part of the demo.

Why people can't see, and except that is beyond me, I mean come on fellas, this is seriously mild compared to the wholesale bashing both Boris and Dustin have delivered in the FM thread.

Personally, regardless of the physics issues, I am still looking forward to the release, why wouldn't I?, I've spent serious hours with every release, as I am a racing (a non blinkered one) game fan.

I rest my case, blinkered fanboy exhibit no 1 ^

I understand Dan. Calling yourself a fanboy. We can see it, but admitting it is the first step to curing yourself.

I find this demo to be impressive the cars seems to be moving around quite like a real car.

But there will always be a but in any game out there.
The but.. here is the force feedback its like Rf without realfeel is lifeless lack of feedback.
The problem is i cant clearly feel when the car goes sideways which annoys me to a great extend.

But at least My DFGT works in it unlike forza wich i had to use my very old logitech wheel for that i bought like 3 years ago.
That's one of the ways forza annoys me a lot , so dont cal me an fanboy or anything just because i like forza 3.

So if they fix the FFB i will be really satisfied with GT5 the full version.

Drifting the tuned 370z is like drifting the FZR in LFS. The tyres are not right for drifting, once you are over the limit then you will reach a point of no return (just like you will find in LFS). This happens in real life too! The normal 370z will not drift very well either because there is no way to turn off the TC. The demo is purely for time trial and not for drifting or any other kind of car ballet. It's a shame that they have released it to the general public in such a limited state, as people who do not bother to read will not understand that this is purely for the GTAcademy and not exactly representative of the full game. I think the reason why it seems as if you reach the point of now return too quickly is because it can be difficult to tell whether the car has lost traction at the rear or not, so getting back on the throttle too early could mean insta-spin if the car isn't even planted to the road. I partially blame this on the cockpit view, usually I use the bonnet/roofcam and can always tell whether the car is breaking away, but then that could be just my preference and what I am used to.

I don't think it is fair to say this is a load of crap, it shows a lot of improvements along with inevitable drawbacks in such a tiny demo. Physics feel much better to me and when the game is opened up in the full version next year, I think it will feel even better. It pleases me atleast that they didn't try to dumb down the physics just for newbies to enjoy it, atleast they are trying to make this a proper sim. The intent is pleasing!

Quote from danowat :

You see, this is the thing, anyone who you could even remotely label a "forza bitch" has not once (myself included) compared the two since the release of the demo.

People (even "forza bitches") aren't "bashing" the game, all they are doing is expressing an opinion about a certain part of the demo.

Why people can't see, and except that is beyond me, I mean come on fellas, this is seriously mild compared to the wholesale bashing both Boris and Dustin have delivered in the FM thread.

Personally, regardless of the physics issues, I am still looking forward to the release, why wouldn't I?, I've spent serious hours with every release, as I am a racing (a non blinkered one) game fan.

So only when making direct comparisons does that mean people are being Forza bitches?
So if i go in the Forza thread and say their game is shit, the cars dont drive properly, the graphics are dated, its bugged, laggy, filled with glitches etc... and its gay . Thats fine, as long as i dont compare it to GT5?

There are Forza bitches posting in here, and im not refering to the people who play forza and like it, but the people who play it, like it, and because they play Forza they pass judgement on other games in an identical bias way to how i just did above, with prejudice and possibly without even playing it and instead forming an opinion from other Forza bitches.

Quote from PaulC2K :

There are Forza bitches posting in here, and im not refering to the people who play forza and like it, but the people who play it, like it, and because they play Forza they pass judgement on other games in an identical bias way to how i just did above, with prejudice and possibly without even playing it and instead forming an opinion from other Forza bitches.

I'd love to see some of those posts on the last few pages of this thread. Could you point me to them? 'Cause I can't say I remember reading any such posts

Quote from PaulC2K :

So only when making direct comparisons does that mean people are being Forza bitches?
So if i go in the Forza thread and say their game is shit, the cars dont drive properly, the graphics are dated, its bugged, laggy, filled with glitches etc... and its gay . Thats fine, as long as i dont compare it to GT5?

There are Forza bitches posting in here, and im not refering to the people who play forza and like it, but the people who play it, like it, and because they play Forza they pass judgement on other games in an identical bias way to how i just did above, with prejudice and possibly without even playing it and instead forming an opinion from other Forza bitches.

There aren't any Forza bitches.... GT came before Forza, anyone whos a true sim fan has played and loved the GT series. So anyone who moved on to Forza and then judged GT5 without playing it is a retard. As they know they enjoy it from previous experience. You talk nonsense.

In fact, I dare say that the people who have posted the most negative feedback on this demo have never even played Forza. But I can understand it's a lot easier to just lable anyone who doesn't like GT a "Forza bitch"

Quote from obsolum :

But I can understand it's a lot easier to just lable anyone who doesn't like GT a "Forza bitch"

Yeah its fine with me thow if they want to be a hypocritical idiot.

Well last night I gave the "demo" a go.

It felt "ok-ish" I guess. I have never played GT5P, so I cant really compare. However, I do agree that "hard is not real" and that the 370z spins out way too fast. It just doesn't feel right.

The graphics were also a let down. To me it looks nothing like all the screen shots we were shown. But then again, it is only a demo....

I will not compare it to Forza 3 because we all know what happens then....

Quote from PaulC2K :

So if i go in the Forza thread and say their game is shit, the cars dont drive properly, the graphics are dated, its bugged, laggy, filled with glitches etc... and its gay . Thats fine, as long as i dont compare it to GT5?

a) It wouldn't be the first time someone has done it, your SDF brothers Boris and Dustin have done plenty.

and

b) no one has said anything remotely close to "GT5 is crap/gay"