Please do not see this post as me starting an argument...i am an adult and want to know how to get the best out of this amazing game.

I love racing games and am pretty good at them, but new to lfs online. I like to play sim games on hard difficulty. I enjoy racing fair and hate it when people ram or drive wrong way or try to spoil race for people. Lfs seems to be full of serious racers so it is defo the place for me.

I am however new to lfs and hence not as fast as most people online. This means that when I join an online game it takes me a while to get to grips with the car, setup, track, layout, rules of server, etc. It is a hard game and good/experienced drivers must have been new at one point?

All my problems seem to come from blue flag issues… L

Here are some of the blue flag rules from lfs website:

“In this case you are hindering his progress and must allow him to pass you as soon as it is safe to do so (you can't be expected to yield while negotiating a chicane or high speed corner) Hold your line don't fight the other car, do not make any sudden movements left or right, ease off slightly and let him pass. He is a lap ahead of you and you are not fighting him for position. You must not hold him up.”

This does say that sometimes the slower driver cannot be expected to yield and it is can be unsafe in some cases. Despite knowing and carefully following the above rule, here is my typical online experience at the moment….

I start the game and have (at most) a few laps, watching my mirrors, getting out of peoples way if i am blue flagged, etc. But sooner or later somebody going much quicker than me comes flying up behind on a fast corner or a really slow bit. They seem to expect me to just jump out of the way and in many cases I have been slammed up the back by the faster car when I am on the racing line and I have not had time or it is not safe to yield.

Many times I have been turning into a corner and the faster driver has tried to dive down the inside…of course there is a crash. The faster driver needed to simply wait until the corner was over and go past at the next safe point.

Many faster drivers seem to commonly go full racing speed on the racing line into the slower car and blame it on them. The faster driver needs to find a safe place to overtake and do it carefully and this may slow them down.

I know having slower cars on the track is annoying but we were all new at some point so it is all part of picking up the game and getting into it.

Following one of these blue flag issues the problem is that abuse then starts being directed at me. “Ban that idiot” “read the blue flag rules”, etc. etc. Often followed by a vote to kick/ban….of course other players seem to vote yes with no knowledge of what actually happened. As I am new and nobody knows me I often get grief from multiple people then leave due to the abuse or get booted from the room.

I have pitted and tried to explain the above but often made matters worse. Some faster drivers seem convinced that if you slowed them in any way or if there was any contact on or off the racing line at any speed then it must be the fault of the slower “noob”. I know if often is the fault of the “noob” but in many cases with me recently it isn’t.

I am not rubbish at racing games, just new to this one and the rude way that some experienced drivers treat a slower car is spoiling the whole experience.

Please try to think of it from a considerate but slower new drivers point of view and think how annoyed you would be if you carefully let loads of blue flag faster cars though with lots of consideration then one fast car make a mess of trying to get past you on a corner and gets you banned/kicked or simply gives you loads of abuse.

I am confused and thinking of finding another game online with friendly drivers.

Any ideas?

Are you joining mid-race? That could be what others are referring to. In this case, you didn't start the race the same time as them so technically you're just practicing, not racing, and if you're really that much slower than the fast guys, you're better off staying in the pits until the race restarts.

If you are waiting for the restart, then it's just a case of faster drivers being disrespectful. I used to be one of those guys to some extent, till I started racing in real life. Now it's second nature to me to back off till it's safe to pass. I'd say many if not most sim racers do not have this mentality. In some cases it's somewhat understandable, such as a driver attempting to catch up to someone. The differences in time per lap between drivers can be miniscule, and a 1 or 2 second delay can mean they never catch up.

Thanks for the polite reply. I have sometimes joined mid race, but when I race often people join in part way through. The server can turn off mid race join if they want to...i assumed if it was allowed on that server then there would be no problem?

Any servers for newer racers that are not total crap but a bit slower? I dont want to race AI or 1 person on a crappy server.

Cheers...

Quote from voight kampff :

“In this case you are hindering his progress and must allow him to pass you as soon as it is safe to do so (you can't be expected to yield while negotiating a chicane or high speed corner) Hold your line don't fight the other car, do not make any sudden movements left or right, ease off slightly and let him pass. He is a lap ahead of you and you are not fighting him for position. You must not hold him up.”

Many times I have been turning into a corner and the faster driver has tried to dive down the inside…of course there is a crash. The faster driver needed to simply wait until the corner was over and go past at the next safe point.

Fail.
You were blueflagged and he was so close he could make overtaking attempt - it was you to notice he is going inside.

Quote :

Many faster drivers seem to commonly go full racing speed on the racing line into the slower car and blame it on them. The faster driver needs to find a safe place to overtake and do it carefully and this may slow them down.

Usually I dont have problems overtaking unless someone blocks on purpose so I dont understand those faster than me claiming right to the racing line, on straights especially.

Quote from voight kampff :

I am confused and thinking of finding another game online with friendly drivers.

Any ideas?

Don't give up just yet. There is an quite major patch on the way (sooner or later) with an reworked and advanced tiremodelling and might bring some more mature drivers back, i guess. Some people ATM really are very self focused and act like they are racin AI's in Race Driver:Grid (or whatever)

Maybe you can join a league and practise these tracks they run.

Quote from AndRand :

Fail.
You were blueflagged and he was so close he could make overtaking attempt - it was you to notice he is going inside.

But not really though, if it was mid corner then as the quoted lfs guide states, you can't be expected to yield while negotiating a chicane or high speed corner, so if a faster driver comes hanking up behind you mid corner and decides to try and squeeze up the inside when there isnt really enough room then its his problem, just because he is 'close enough' to make an attempt at passing dosn't mean it is by any means safe or sensible to do so, he should wait until the corner is over so he can overtake safely, a slower car holding its line during a corner is NOT blocking, as holding your line is also mentioned in the quoted text by the OP, hold your line don't fight the other car, do not make any sudden movements left or right, so shooting off the racing line to give a quicker car room during a corner would be classed as a sudden movement i would say.

Long story short, you're right, they're wrong (most likely).

If this situation happens on a regular basis it might be a good idea to watch the replays and see how it looked from their perspective, just in case you're really doing something strange that isn't obvious from your own view. But for the most part the problem is down this to being the internet, granting relative anonymity, which makes some older and lots of younger people behave for the worse in ways they'd never do in real life.

Regarding blue flags, many people seem to think that a blue-flagged backmarker should immediately go to pits or hurl their car into the gravel trap as soon as someone faster approaches from behind, but this is definitely not the case for anyone who has common sense. I can partially understand that sentiment if someone joined mid-race (they have no business on the track, seriously - if someone can't drive without causing interference after mid-race joining then they deserve what they get), but normal backmarkers that were in the race from the beginning (or joined shortly after the start) shouldn't be treated this harshly. Another problem from my experience is that the race craft of a lot of people simply sucks. They might be fast hotlappers, but are generally unable to deal with others being on the track, too.

If the replays say you're innocent then I guess you'll just have to keep at it (otherwise change your driving style to fix the problem). With time you'll find servers that have better behaving drivers or you simply become faster yourself, so that being blue-flagged isn't such a common scenario anymore.

I expected a lot of grief for this post and I guess it has started...

"fail" not sure what you mean

You have to have track position to over take even if you are a faster car and the car in front has had a blue flag. You cannot simply be faster, dive down the inside and expect a blue flag car not to turn in.

This is exactly the point. Blue flag does not mean that you have to put it in the gravel to avoid all other drivers and you are not allowed to turn in.

If the faster driver had track position and I turned in and there was a crash then you would be right, but I am talking about a faster driver getting it wrong and going for an overtake where it is not safe and then blaming it on the "noob"

Faster car has to pick his way past blue flagged car carefully, not smash his way through at all costs on the first corner and then blame the other guy!!!

I race in the real world and I guess that is why I too think differently when it comes to blue flags.

A lot of guys on LFS seem to think that if they have to slow down at all or move off racing line at all then the slower blue flagged car has broken the rules. Not the case.

<flame suit on>

...ducking for cover...go easy on me, i love the game.

Fail = Overused internet buzzword for you have made a mistake or are in the wrong, used all the time in any context, weather it really fits the situation or not

mostly supportive...thanks.

How do i check replays from different angles and other driver point of view?

thanks

Press the 'tab' key, it switches from your car to other cars, if its a massive grid, press the 'home' key to go back to your car, the 'v' key changes from rear chase, incar, top, and tv camera style views.

Quote from voight kampff :

mostly supportive...thanks.

How do i check replays from different angles and other driver point of view?

thanks

to change view press v, to change car focous press tab (or shift+tab, they go in different directions up and down the pack, and use home to go straight back to your car) and if you want a custom camera point then press shift+U.

Quote from voight kampff :

mostly supportive...thanks.

How do i check replays from different angles and other driver point of view?

thanks

either;
SHIFT + U,
tab
V
(better expained in posts above)
And DO turn on the automatic replay saving in options despite it being not recommended- it will save you alot of trouble.

Just periodically remeber to delete the old ones.

You can also click on the car triangle on the minimap to jump to that car, as well as on the name in the name list (lower right corner).

Quote from AndroidXP :

You can also click on the car triangle on the minimap to jump to that car, as well as on the name in the name list (lower right corner).

Oh yeah, i forgot that you can do that *runs away*

thank you...thank you...thank you.

I have calmed down a bit now.

When I first posted I just expected a load of grief, but it seems I may not be talking complete rubbish.

I feel better now

Quote from voight kampff :

I expected a lot of grief for this post and I guess it has started...

"fail" not sure what you mean

You have to have track position to over take even if you are a faster car and the car in front has had a blue flag. You cannot simply be faster, dive down the inside and expect a blue flag car not to turn in.

It is completely legitimate to "dive in" as soon as the car is overlapped. In touring cars - just a bit, in most racing rules at least half the car. I understood that had been the situation, I try to respect that distance that enables faster car to overtake. I was not referring to situation midcorner, frankly any bump from the apex out of the corner is IMO the fault of the one overtaking.

That is what i meant by "track position". We basically agree on when it is ok to overtake. The problem is this...

I am talking about an insane move by a faster driver on a blue flagged car in an attempt to lose no time when coming across a back marker.

e.g.
When you dont have "half a car" and you still go for it, it goes wrong and you blame the slow guy.

It happens in most races to me at the moment...the fast guy is often to blame but I get the grief for it.

Shame.

This is in overtaking situation, when blueflagged I try to avoid such situations just when I see in mirror someone in-race close enough to take ovrertaking attempt

btw. I use virtual mirror (in view settings - mirror mode) it is always visible, btw2. it could have adjustable width (not FOV)

thanks for tip about mirror will try it.

It also really depends on the server/race length/drivers how blue flags and racing etiquette are handled.
On some of the busy servers with short sprint races (e.g. FoX junkies) you are expected to clear the way on blue flag. (and I its ok for me)
My experience: short races with many ppl -> more aggressive racers, who expect everyone to clear track if they come from behind ...

Try some servers with racelength > 5 minutes - there I get the most fun in LFS. And with longer races most people start to think(and slow down) before they just crash the blue flagged car in front.

Just a heads up to you Mr. voight kampff, the Dead Men Racing server is a nice place for some clean racing (if you prefer smaller grids than the ones on IHR). Good luck

A point worth mentioning in relation to IHR multi class racing, where I have recently started working up the ranks myself, is that as I have discovered, the speed differential between my XFG and the leader's FZR is so great that on fast track sections you don't even get the blue flag before the guy is passing you. Yes you can keep an occasional eye on the minimap to see where the leaders are but not if you are in your own battle with other XFGs. But it mostly seems that the fastest cars are actually aware that their arrival amongst the back markers may be a bit of a surprise and do choose their moments carefully.

I know the problem, and TS, you are right though. Fast drivers need to behave. But this also needs to be learned

I want to take this opportunity to join the leagues on www.absolute-beginners.nl.

We race with really fast drivers, but also slow ones. Blue flag behaviour is no.1 issue at our server. Slow drivers need to learn from fast ones.
Because we are a 'beginners' server, fast drivers KNOW that there are "noobs" driving, and take it into account. We state that if you, as a fast drivers, do not want this, you should not race with us.

Ofcourse the blue flag rules still apply at our server, but we expect the fast ones to give special care. And, we are getting more and more fast drivers, so it actually works. It's just another state of mind

Read the chronicles in my sig to get an idea of our community.

Greets!

Quote from audimasta :

Just a heads up to you Mr. voight kampff, the Dead Men Racing server is a nice place for some clean racing (if you prefer smaller grids than the ones on IHR). Good luck

How nice of you, I was just about to say the same thing You don't have to be fast and you can be sure that everyone there will treat you with respect and help you when asked, as long as you're not a numptie, which I don't believe voight is

Server is most busy between 7pm and 10pm GMT. This week's combo might not be for the inexperienced driver, though. FZ5 @ SO Long