I love the American approach to owning cars. People get so hung up on the "it should have done 10,000 miles per year" thing over here it's ridiculous. In the States, it seems to be "if it gets from A to B and it's mechanically sound, it's all good". Much better.

Do cars have to pass stringent yearly roadworthiness tests in the US?

I'm purely going from what I've seen on the TV here, but it strikes me that you can get away with having a car in much worse condition over there.

I am sre they have to go through some form of inspection but it depends on which state you're in, but there is a bit more freedom in America generally. The state can't get away with quite so much in America like they can here. I think us British just can't look after ourselves without nanny wiping our arses every five minutes

The body and paint has to be in decent shape without any rust or major dents, and the interior has to be in reasonable shape. I will NOT buy a car that has been wrecked.

I would much rather buy a cheap car with engine or transmission problems rather than a cheap running car because you know exactly why they are selling it.

Perfect example.
My 944, I paid $1000 for it because someone neglected to change the timing belt and it broke, so I had to replace 5 valves and get the head machined.
The car has 230,000 miles on it and there has never been any major work done to it until I got. The car is reliable, gets over 30mpg, and it does not need any work. Well, I guess I need to replace my air dam but that's it.

I could not give a damn about mileage. If it is a good car then it will keep on going well past 300K. Just look at the service records, if it has a very long list of things that have been replaced, FORGET IT! The list will keep growing.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Low Mileage cars should be avoided - it almost certainly means either a lot of standing, or a lot of short journeys. As such the engine will never have been warmed up properly, the rings won't be bedded in, the valves are probably worn (don't seal properly), the head gasket will be deteriorating, the exhaust will be rotting from the inside out...

Ideally the car should have about 8k to 12k miles per year (slighty more for a diesel - 12k - 20k). Less or more isn't going to be great.

Other than that, general condition is important. Looking at the trim will give an idea of how well it was cared for.

saying that though my dad's car 55 reg got it in 06. Mileage is less than 15k but his journey too and from work involved a 70mph road. The first part of the journey is 30mph roads. And one stretch of 60. Then there is the 70mph road. When he gets off that there are more 30mph roads. So it is given chance to warm up on the slow bits and then stretches it legs on the 70mph bit. And while it was less than 1000 miles on the clock it wasn't driven roughly. It also had a good stretch when we went to lego land in 2006. So AFAIK the engine is pretty much perfect. (condition wise)

Quote from Luke.S :

saying that though my dad's car 55 reg got it in 06. Mileage is less than 15k but his journey too and from work involved a 70mph road. The first part of the journey is 30mph roads. And one stretch of 60. Then there is the 70mph road. When he gets off that there are more 30mph roads. So it is given chance to warm up on the slow bits and then stretches it legs on the 70mph bit. And while it was less than 1000 miles on the clock it wasn't driven roughly. It also had a good stretch when we went to lego land in 2006. So AFAIK the engine is pretty much perfect. (condition wise)

Gripping stuff.

Quote from Luke.S :

saying that though my dad's car 55 reg got it in 06. Mileage is less than 15k but his journey too and from work involved a 70mph road. The first part of the journey is 30mph roads. And one stretch of 60. Then there is the 70mph road. When he gets off that there are more 30mph roads. So it is given chance to warm up on the slow bits and then stretches it legs on the 70mph bit. And while it was less than 1000 miles on the clock it wasn't driven roughly. It also had a good stretch when we went to lego land in 2006. So AFAIK the engine is pretty much perfect. (condition wise)

Either he doesn't go to work much, or it's a short journey. You know it takes quite a long time to get an engine up to temperature - far long than it takes the coolant to get up to temp.

Quote from TiJay :

I love the American approach to owning cars. People get so hung up on the "it should have done 10,000 miles per year" thing over here it's ridiculous. In the States, it seems to be "if it gets from A to B and it's mechanically sound, it's all good". Much better.

That's partly due to the differences in driving in the two countries. We tend to cover much smaller distances, and as such tend to drive the cars on short journeys...

Quote from TiJay :

I think there was a VW or Skoda turbo of some kind where the turbo broke at 125,000 miles...

Aload of shit. Numerous VAG cars that I have SEEN with my own eyes have been well over 120 thousand and their turbos are are as good as new. You must be thinking of Peugeot or something

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Do cars have to pass stringent yearly roadworthiness tests in the US?

I'm purely going from what I've seen on the TV here, but it strikes me that you can get away with having a car in much worse condition over there.

Depends on the state. In California you have a 3 year emissions test, but that's pretty much it. I've seen some VERY unsafe cars on the road here in San Francisco. I've seen tyres worn down to the metal and pieces of car hanging off on the freeway.

No wonder I see cars on their roof on wet days going down a very straight piece of highway. Driving in the bay area is shockingly bad but it keeps my LFS skills sharp

it's quite a short journey.

Pennsylvania here with annual state inspection. You can get away with some stuff unless it is a dealership shop. Typically brake and tire wear must be within spec, exhaust must be intact with no leaks or rusted out, suspension and steering components they check for wear, and all lights and indicators must work. States are divided up smaller yet by counties, in which some have emissions testing and some don't. I don't need emissions testing done, but 60 miles south of me does.

An independent mechanic with a state inspection license may tell you when something is close to failing and still pass it expecting you to get it fixed. A dealership shop or large shop will not pass it.

My rotors were pretty chewed up. I get free inspections by the dealer. It did not pass. They would have passed at an independent shop because they were just scored badly, not thin and out of spec. I also picked up a slow leak in a brand new tire which by the time I arrived at the shop, the low air pressure indicator (as if that's accurate) was lit. They did check and found a screw in the tire. No problem, the tire shop fixed it for nothing.

There are also plenty of rip-off shops. When I was a kid, my father was not a car guy. His cars failed inspection every year for exhaust. What do non-car people do when they are in the shop and fail inspection? They tell the same shop to fix it (I say, OK, I'll be back, then go home and fix it...)

Makes me curious though, what they would do if a real 4x4 had those stupid air pressure sensors in the wheels and the owner chose to put larger tires on for off-roading and didn't run the same air pressure. The indicator on the dash would be lit, yet a lower air pressure could be perfectly fine. I use to run 23 and 25 psi in my 31x10.50 BFG tires on my old Toyota because any more than that and it was way too much pressure and wore the center down. Recommended per the vehicle was 32 psi based on stock tires, not the 3 inch bigger tire I had. That probably would light the indicator if there were sensors in the wheels like my current vehicle.

So 'rust, or lack of, when I go and view it' seems to be the most important thing then? (within reason of course - I'm not going to buy a dead car just because it's not rusty )

I've been reading up on the Focus and they seem to be pretty indestructible, and that you shouldn't be put off by ones that have done 100,000+ miles.

I know someone who bought what they thought was a 'Cozzie' Sierra, turned out it was two cars welded together and the engine was just a stock motor from a fiesta, but it had a loud exhaust on, so the idiot thought it was a cosworth, just by looking at it, and listening to it. Never heard from that guy since, he probably is a recluse now, I know I would be, I'd die from embarassment.


I would say that just because you might be at a used car dealer, don't expect them to sell you something that's perfect, they will rip you off just as much as some private sellers do.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

So 'rust, or lack of, when I go and view it' seems to be the most important thing then? (within reason of course - I'm not going to buy a dead car just because it's not rusty )

Rust is a lot less of an issue than it used to be on cars built in the last 10 years or so. The factory protective coatings are a lot better than they used to be so if you're looking at something like a Focus it is probably more noisy mechanicals and electronics that are the bigger worry.

So as long as any car I look at has a comprehensive service history, isn't rusty, doesn't sound odd, drives ok, and all the electrical items work, it should be good to go? I'm not going to hand over cash, get 200 yards down the road, and have all the doors, body-panels and wheels fall off, leaving me just sitting on the chassis holding a steering wheel and looking shocked?

Quote from Crashgate3 :

So as long as any car I look at has a comprehensive service history, isn't rusty, doesn't sound odd, drives ok, and all the electrical items work, it should be good to go? I'm not going to hand over cash, get 200 yards down the road, and have all the doors, body-panels and wheels fall off, leaving me just sitting on the chassis holding a steering wheel and looking shocked?

I think you're under the impression that theres a big UNDERWORLD to used cars, it's really not that bad, just don't be taken for a mug, it sucks to buy a car though if you don't know much about them, because you can't notice faults like others can.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Aload of shit. Numerous VAG cars that I have SEEN with my own eyes have been well over 120 thousand and their turbos are are as good as new. You must be thinking of Peugeot or something

If I recall correctly, BMW E46 320d's are known for their turbo problems after 100,000 miles.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I think you're under the impression that theres a big UNDERWORLD to used cars, it's really not that bad, just don't be taken for a mug, it sucks to buy a car though if you don't know much about them, because you can't notice faults like others can.

I disagree - my tire wear issue, for example, to get fixed by a garage would of been £300+ in labour, yet it's pretty much un-noticable to the eye without actively looking for it.

My car also recently started leaking power steering fluid - I could top it up, drive for a day and then it would make a horrible grinding noise as it ran out of fluid. Luckily it was just a perished pipe but could of been all manner of things, and had I of cleaned the engine and moved just before you arrived to test drive it you'd never notice.

Radio doesn't work, needs code, PITA to get. Electic locking not working, same.

My cars doors also have a habit of unlocking if left out in the wet, but you'd never know in a test drive. Same for the passenger door lock freezing when left in *very* cold conditions...

Cars thermostat ****ed? No problem over a 30 minute test drive, but longer and bad things happen. Car doesn't start well when cold? No problem, get it started, warm it up, turn it off as the punter pulls up, starts like a charm.

Cars *can* have all sorts of issues with them. Obviously most people would sell a car honestly, and describe these faults, but my uncles son sells used cars from other peoples driveways when there on holiday so I doubt everyone does...

Quote from Crashgate3 :

I'm not going to hand over cash, get 200 yards down the road, and have all the doors, body-panels and wheels fall off, leaving me just sitting on the chassis holding a steering wheel and looking shocked?

Unless you buy a complete banger for £20, it should be sold with some sort of warranty that at least covers engine and gearbox for a small period of time.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

I'm not going to hand over cash, get 200 yards down the road, and have all the doors, body-panels and wheels fall off, leaving me just sitting on the chassis holding a steering wheel and looking shocked?

Test-Drive it at first of course.
And If it doesn't look completely destroyed, it probably won't do that.

bit off topic. was just watching survivors. Must be like 6 months now since everyone died (on the program) and an Alfa (YES an Alfa Romeo) actually started. How is that possible. How. And to make matters even more unrealistic it was an 08 reg. Ok so it was a MiTo. But still. An alfa starting after being left for that amount of time. That was a major plot hole. Now away from the sarcastic part. How the hell was the battery not completely dead.

Oh and on topic. Don't buy a pre 2000 Alfa. It will break.

The one thing I always look out for (and this comes from the cars we get in the garage) is the RK/PO. I would never by a car from "one elderly woman owner" because I see the condition of the cars we get in. To look at they are normally fine, but mechanically, they haven't had the yearly service. Hell, one we had in a few weeks ago, the woman's grandson had twisted her arm into getting it done and the oil was a nasty mess. Considering how long that'd been pumping around the system, I doubt the motor is in great shape.

I'd also avoid anyone who is selling a car (normal A to B car) because they "need the cash" because you can bet your bottom dollar the lack of cash that is forcing the sale also means they never had the cash for the yearly services either, so expect similar results.

A lot of cars I've seen ads for are from dealerships stating 'p/x to clear' which after a bit of googling I take to mean they got it in as a part exchange and don't want it cluttering up their forecourt, so are getting rid of it cheaply.

is this a good thing or a bad thing?

A guy buys a top-of-the-range E-Class 10 years ago, new. He keeps this car for 10 years, then rolls up and buys another one and they take it in part exchange. Nothing wrong with the car at all, but the Mercedes dealership certainly don't want a 10 year old car on the forecourt because it doesn't have a good image - it'll either be auctioned, send to another dealer or maybe just shifted quick. They don't really care if it's a dog or mint - they just dont want it!

When I was looking for my first car I went to the local Ford dealership (my Dad wanted me to get a Ka) and they wouldn't have anything under £2k parked out the front, and sent anything like that to auction, probably because the margins are so low they cba to clean it, do multiple test drives etc all on a £1,200 car or whatever.

I went looking around at another Ford dealership around here and they didn't have a single old-style Focus there, at all. Not a single thing (Not even an Estonian-reged, LHD Focus at £10k no less!) under £4k on the forecourt...!

Quote from Crashgate3 :

So as long as any car I look at has a comprehensive service history, isn't rusty, doesn't sound odd, drives ok, and all the electrical items work, it should be good to go? I'm not going to hand over cash, get 200 yards down the road, and have all the doors, body-panels and wheels fall off, leaving me just sitting on the chassis holding a steering wheel and looking shocked?

In life you have to take risks, obviously there are ways of reducing that risk which you've detailed above. The main one would be service history, just so you know the history of this car, however other than a visual inspection and your basic checks you're going to have to rely on gut instinct.

Make sure to leave some money in the bank for safe measure too, but thats common sense really.

On high mileage cars I would ask how frequently the oil is changed and inspect rusting around joints/bolts (etc) the best you can. Don't let the 'just been washed and cleaned so I look almost new' thing fool you.