Having gotten into endurance racing lateley, I'm inspired to resurrect and old topic. Taboo, I know, but I think this is one of the better suggestions for LFS and the last time it came up (about a year ago), the thread died without much fanfare.

The GTRs are dog slow compared to the real thing... at best, they would barely keep up with a real GT2-spec car. I'd like to see the GTRs get either:

1. A significant power improvement to emulate real GT1 cars; or
   
2. A small power improvement to emulate real GT2 cars and introduce a couple new GT1-spec cars
   

Of course, (1) on its own would be satisfactory to me. It's easy enough for us to use intake restriction to create an artificial GT2 class; in fact, for the leagues that use it (MoE, IGTC, GTAL, etc.), it works pretty damn well. However, opting for (2) over (1) would be great... more cars.

This all occurred to me after hearing the latest rumors about new cars coming to S3 (if you're not aware, please find out somewhere else and leave speculation out of this discussion). If the rumors turned out to be true, multi-class endurance racing would be in for a serious shake-up with a class of supremely quick cars lapping dangerously quicker than the current GTR class. For the reasons above (i.e., S2 GTRs aren't really GTRs) and this, I think this improvement is necessary.

Sounds like an extremely good idea, only I think that having the new tyre physics if not new tyres altogether in LFS would be a good idea to go with this so as to accomodate all of the power better

FZR needs a turbo. XRR needs a hefty American V8. FXR needs to lose the 4WD and get a new engine

Perhaps some tweakage would be best to test this theory?

I thought LFS' GTR cars somehow resemble JGTC GT500 specifications.

FZR with a turbo would give me a raging hardon.

Quote from 5tag :

I thought LFS' GTR cars somehow resemble JGTC GT500 specifications.

That's all well and good, but the GT2 class we've created from LFS's GTR crop is pathetically slow. A 150 MPH top speed is laughable.

Also the horn and the plate should be remove, and that a 2 small thing to add in the next patch

Quote from tmehlinger :

That's all well and good, but the GT2 class we've created from LFS's GTR crop is pathetically slow. A 150 MPH top speed is laughable.

That has not much to do with LFS development. The GT2 as I see it was never intended by the devs. Saying GT2 is too slow and should be faster is not an improvement suggestion for further LFS releases.

Quote from tmehlinger :

The GTRs are dog slow compared to the real thing... at best, they would barely keep up with a real GT2-spec car.

I don't know what "the real thing" is you are speaking from but I think the GTR's are pretty damn fast and I assume GT2 has been introduced for many other people feeling the same.
Less power in the same car makes racing closer, safer and reduces drivers stress. If people aren't (already) comfortable with the standard GTRs let them have races with GT2 cars.

Quote from 5tag :

That has not much to do with LFS development. The GT2 as I see it was never intended by the devs. Saying GT2 is too slow and should be faster is not an improvement suggestion for further LFS releases.

The point is that for there to be a distinct GT2 class it pretty much has to be "laughably" slow. If the top level of GTRs in LFS had around 600hp (in line with FIA GT1 class stuff) then the lower class could have 400-450hp (fairly well in line with FIA GT2, instead of the ~350hp they have now.

Of course it is not really the dev's fault, the community created the GT2 class, but the devs are really the only ones who can make this all work out.

Quote from pik_d :

The point is that for there to be a distinct GT2 class it pretty much has to be "laughably" slow. If the top level of GTRs in LFS had around 600hp (in line with FIA GT1 class stuff) then the lower class could have 400-450hp (fairly well in line with FIA GT2, instead of the ~350hp they have now.

Of course it is not really the dev's fault, the community created the GT2 class, but the devs are really the only ones who can make this all work out.

Don't know if my post was confusing but I don't think you understood mine as I wanted. Who sais the LFS GTR class must resemble FIA GT1 classements?

The community uses this LFS GT2 classement widely and successfully. If LFS GT2 is too slow for somebody he should probably race normal GTRs.

If there are 10 or so people who would like a race with faster cars... The only things they need are an own server/a cooperative admin and some kind of LFS Tweak.

Quote from J@tko :

FZR needs a turbo. XRR needs a hefty American V8. FXR needs to lose the 4WD and get a new engine

IMO NO!


Maybe those cars should be as they are. IMO those cars would be compared:

LMP1
LMP2

GT1
GTR-DTM ( XR GTR | FZ50 GTR | FXO GTR)
GT2
GT3 ( XF GTR | UF GTR )
GTS ( FZ50 | RaceAbout | LX6)
GTM
GTT-M ( FXO Turbo | XR GT Turbo | RB4 GT | LX4 )
GTi ( XF GTi | XR GT | )

non-GT (UF 1000)


Of Course, I have not checked those car's horsepowers and weights but I think You get what I mean.

GT3 is actually fairly similar power levels to GT2 but has less advanced aero bits (usually). the XFR/UFR are probably more similar to S2000 levels than anything else, but I'm not really sure.

The GTRs work well with more power, 650ps in the XRR (2.5, one more cylinder) and 800ps in the FXR are as driveable as before.

What we need IMO is not faster GTRs but more. More cars with different ad- and disadvantages would spice up the field, as long as one car isn't made überperforming, like the FZR back in '08 (?) (i know, quite a hassle).

I'd say GTR version of RB4(turbo4), RAC(V6) and LX6(wankel,hartley V8?) plus a new car representing the american/australian way of GT racing.

Quote from 5tag :

Don't know if my post was confusing but I don't think you understood mine as I wanted. Who sais the LFS GTR class must resemble FIA GT1 classements?

It wasn't confusing. You're missing the entire point of the thread. We want the GTR class to resemble FIA GT1. A suitable alternative to that would be new cars that more closely resember FIA GT1 and we could use the current GTR class as GT2. Please note how closely this paragraph resembles my original suggestion.

We could care less what it actually resembles now, we want quick enough GT cars that we can have proper GT1/GT2 class racing.

Quote from tmehlinger :

We could care less what it actually resembles now, we want quick enough GT cars that we can have proper GT1/GT2 class racing.

I think the point trying to be made is that while the GTR’s don’t represent FIA GT1 class cars, we do have proper 2 tier racing through the intake restriction. However, I do agree some more powerful GTR’s would be good (along with some LMP’s too.) I agree for two reasons, firstly because I think LFS should represent as many types/levels or racing possible (even if using ‘fake’ cars.) The second reason is due to why not? LMP would mean making the models etc whereas making a GT1 class is very close to the GTR’s we have now just with less power. We just need proper interiors, maybe a few body differences and more power = GT1 class.

Cars in the DTM championnship
HP : 460
KG : 1070 (driver in)

So what is the problem with our LFS GTR cars ??
HP : 500
KG : 1100 (driver out)


And pleaaaaaseee!!!!! No Turbo in the FZR !!!
But I agree with a big V8 in the XRR without turbo !

I think (hope) in the S3 we will see a new class ! LMP1 (LMP2 with restrictions) that would be awesome for endurance races

hell no.. XRR should be as it is.. :P

dont change any cars we allready have.. un nessasary work..

RBR (RB4 GTR (RWD)) v8 would be nice in that case..

RB4 : AWD so why RBR : RWD ? ^^
I agree that AWD sucks but if the stock car is a AWD the GTR car should be the same imo

Quote from fab_iceman_67 :

RB4 : AWD so why RBR : RWD ? ^^
I agree that AWD sucks but if the stock car is a AWD the GTR car should be the same imo

I disagree

I agree

Quote from fab_iceman_67 :

RB4 : AWD so why RBR : RWD ? ^^
I agree that AWD sucks but if the stock car is a AWD the GTR car should be the same imo

So you think we should change the FXO GTR to FWD?

well.. maybe..

but v8 and awd feels abit wrong..

my idea of the RB4 gtr to be rwd was to get the idea of v8 supercars..

Quote from J@tko :

FZR needs a turbo. XRR needs a hefty American V8. FXR needs to lose the 4WD and get a new engine

I think that summed everything up!

Did a test a while back for IGTC or MoE, it was to use tweak as the basis for "upgrading" the series.

GT1: FZR/XRR @ 650hp (were both rather even too which was cool)
GT2: FXR (RWD) @ *don't remember* (was about 5-7 seconds off pace to GT1, same pace as current GT1)

Sad part is that the car choice is low (or one for GT2 :razz so it was a no-go, plus tweak was apparantly hard to integrate into a dedi server.

FIA classes are quite interesting, I believe. LFS cars could fit the most important categories:

LMP1 - top class prototypes (~700hp/900kg)
LMP2 - slower class prototypes (450~500hp/825kg)

GT1 - top modified GT cars (~600hp)
GT2 - adapted GTR class (~450hp)
GT3 - FZ5 and RAC with spoilers and racing wheels/tires (~400hp)
GT4 - light cars with racing wheels/tires, stock FZ5, LX, RAC, etc (250~300hp)

S2000 - 2 liter N/A rally and/or racing cars (~270hp)

And so on...