I think that pretty much sums it all up (though UKIP and BNP do differ quite fundamentally on economic policies which is the main part of any party's manifesto and direction). The rise of the Lib-Dems is rather shocking though but it does demonstrate perfectly the flaw in how democracies work. It's all about personality and not fundamental issues. For example, the Lib-Dems policy on the Euro is disastrous. It is economic suicide! But does that get coverage ? Nope, not really.
It highlights another area however many people need to actually consider. Everyone lampoons far-left parties like the BNP but all they need is a charasmatic leader who has a bit of intellgence and wit and we're all screwed. Luckily for us they have Nick Griffin as a leader!
They are nothing like the Conservative Party. They are a socialist type party fundamentally and certainly not purely 'right-wing'. There is this assumption right-wing = racist which is not the case at all. To call them right-wing is wrong and shows either an ignorance to the spectrum of politics (you've admitted to not reading their manifesto in detail) or a tendency to fall for the propaganda spouted in the media. Anyway I have genuinely recommended you check out the Libertarian Party (not a great website but the blogs are very good) have you check them out?
Some people do actually need benefits. Its very easy for the average well-off scum to say "pah, oiks taking all our hard earned money", but most of them have never had to support a family off a shit job because the kind of education required to get a good one was out of their financial reach. The higher classes can preach about earning through hard work as much as they like, when the truth is most well off people have inherited their wealth.
Obviously though the current level of public spending needs to be cut, Conservatives will probrably cut it too far mind, but its ok because they're 'alright Jack'. Until Labour come up with a cabinet that isn't full of liars I could never vote for them, even if they were to be the only real opposition to the conservatives, who no matter what they say are always going to **** the poor.
Fascism is more of a kind of foreign policy than an economic one from what I can see, it was more to do with genetics and how some types of people are supposedly superior to others and should win out in some kind of natrual selection process through war and violence. (Of course we all know that is bollocks, don't we).
If you're referring to the fact that they will cut at least £6bn more than Labour then there's still well over £100bn to go before you can call it "too far".
lol The Conservatives won't cut nearly enough. I think you need to wake up and realise what a massive, gigantic, huge, stupendous hole we are in.
and btw - if you have a baby and then plee poverty you don't get my sympathy. Work hard, earn money, get stable... and then have a family (if you really want to) but to think that you have a right to access to OTHER PEOPLE'S money just because you want to go rubberless is an abuse of benefits!
And it isn't rich people that feel the pain. They can move country and take their wealth elsewhere (Like they ARE doing right now). It's ordinary people that feel the pain of increased taxation.
AND BTWWWW the internet has allowed poor people to access a mass of knowledge and education at next to zero cost so cut the rubbish about poor being at a disadbvantage educationally. That's political spin and BS
Indeed - but thats *not* the sort of person i'm referring to. I know many people who can have a comfortable (not extravagant, mind) lifestyle and who chose every day not to get a job... they are not going to vote for someone to take all this away from them.
Erm, I am from a rather poor family (when I started looking at uni they were making 18k combined a year), so I got a load of funding to help get me there. I even graduated in 2008. What has that done for me? Wasted 3 years of my life I'll never get back. It isn't about the education by making contacts with people who can get you a good job.
It isn't what you know but who you know and what you know about who you know.
So finance doesn't come into education, if you had the ability and determination to see it through, the funding is there to help you. My mother went to uni the year before I did and as a result got even more funding because at that point my dad had just lost his job so she got dependencies allowance. Which in itself gave her 15k a year to go towards putting food in out bellies and a roof over our heads. More than plenty.
So again, there is no financial reason to not go to uni, only academic reasons or just not interested in wasting 3 years of your life. Which is what it amounts to as I now hold a degree in computing and earn a living as a mechanic. Figure that one out.
Oh rubbish Alan, don't bate me into an argument you know I'm intelligent enough to witted on and on beyod everyones attention span to prove my point and fail abysmally by neglecting to remove my narcassism from my post. I've demonstrated quite clearly that I understand the full scope of the poliical circle, indeed, some now use a triange to position the view points of the parties - but in short no simple generalisation accurately reflects a parties full manifeto.
Why would I study the BNP's full manifesto? (as mentioned, I have read through their website over the last yer and am aware what they claim o rand for), and I have also researched them enough to see the Griffin speaches like the ones where he speaks to the KKK telling them how to get elected before revealing the full scope of their policies. Why would I bother to study their policies for my vote when everyhing they stand for is vehemently opposite to me, an that's just their watered down version. Why would I bother having had a run in with their militant arm in the street?
Seriously just stop harping on about left and right, when everyone who undertand politics who's posted in this thread and the other breads where you've done this that the whole left/right thing is more of a circle.
Brains. Engage. No wonder youre Intending to vote for idiots, you're acting like the close minded puppets they want despite actually having some brains in your head - use them
Have you checked out the party I recommended or not? Simple question. You complain about the various main political partys but when someone suggests one that reflects your view you are ignorant to that suggestion. oddness!
All depends on the degree you take, whether those skills are in demand and whether the uni and the course itself has good ties with the industry that you're looking to go into. (for example, there seems to be a ridiculous amount of people going for psycology degrees, there are three people in my immediate family doing bloody psycology degrees, do we really need that many psycologists!)
Of course when I say out of financial reach I mean many years ago, in previous generations only a few went to university, for most it was too expensive. Theres definately going to have to be some cuts to student financing, but whoever is in power needs to be careful not to put the opportunity of a better eductaion out of reach of less fortunate people.
In a fair society how bright you are should be what gets you ahead, not how rich. There needs to be a bit of adjusting though because the current spending can't go on, but a return tp the unfair way it used to be would be taking it too far, besides there are loads of areas other than eductaion where money is wasted, two bloody wars being one example, oh and porn DVDs, and moats, and the lovely conservatory my local MP got himself if I remember correctly.
Indeed. It is now just seen as another sheet of paper in an already over stuffed portfolio of paper. It is all now irrelevant as you can prove you have the same knowledge just by created a portfolio of work in the same area which is more likely to gain you a job.
My mother started university in 2004 at the age of 44, she completed a course in Conservation and Restoration and Lincoln University (seen as the pinnacle in this area, she has been show around the back of Museums all over the EU just because she is a Linc alumni), yet not a single job came of her hard work, nor for any of the other students from her year. All of who revived various amounts of funding.
Yet there is always a cry for more Conservators in the UK as we apparently don't have any.
Sorry if I'm being a bit, erm, naive here, but I've never really quite understood that argument.
Even if tuition fees do go up, there'll still be loans to cover it for you. [plus grants if you're that poor]. The amount you pay back depends on your income when you leave uni, and if it goes below a certain amount you stop paying all together. Surely if your job after uni is so badly paid that you're still paying back the loan after 20/30 years, then surely there's not much point you going to uni in the first place?
If you make under 15k a year (which is going to be raised due to inflation) you do not pay your loan. After ~15 years what is left of your loan is written off anyway. So financially, you're covered if you can get a place.
[edit: It is also the lowest interest loan you'll ever take out in your life and when you do start paying it back, it works out to be a fraction of your wage packet, if memory serves it is single digit sums, I think it is around 5% of your wage goes to paying your loan.]
Using the word fair is misleading. Would it be fair that every WR holder in LFS be handicapped when racing online!? I'e worked with wealthy people (I am NOT myself) and simply put most of them work 10x maybe 20x harder than your average Joe. This needs to be celebrated and not punished. So many people in this country have this sense of entitlement it's shocking. Rich epople are rich because they work bloody hard. they create wealth and jobs yet people still vilify them!
If they even had a candidye I could vote for maybe I would, but you forget that we don't have a democracy. I'm voting for freedom, to bring about something more closely resembling a democracy in Britain. I would like Europe to also be a democracy, but the only way to achieve that at the moment would be through terrorism against old order institutions (like nuking Brussels for instance) and I'm not prepared to do that - instead, I'm going to hope that we can lead by example and establish a democracy here. Lib Dems offer the best chance of that actually happening, and throwing out the DEB, ID cards, and the new passports is a good first step towards reversing the police state we have become.
Our freedom to free speech, and an impartial judiciary, ha never been under more threat than it is now under Labour and Conservative. My only other option locally is a racist homophobic independant who's like a rural conservative without the political correctness.
Sorry, but LibDems want to introduce legislation which makes all speech which could be deemed offensive to others illegal. So how is that gaining a freedom? Part of freedom of speech is having the ability to say what you like regardless of what others think of it. That is the whole point of multiculturalism and varying demographics. Everyone has different views and someone else may find those views offensive, you cannot legislate for that.
Yes I realise this country has a defecit running into billions, but I get the feeling some will want to cut more than is necessary, for their own greedy gain.
The way they go on sometimes you'd think so. A fair taxation system would reduce the 'pain' felt by ordinary people as much as possible.
All very lovely, but at present there aren't many qualifications you can get through trawling the web, the internet is also full of political spin and BS itself. The internet is very useful but telling an emplyer that you 'know some stuff off the internet' wont get you a job at the moment, perhaps in the near future.
Also, a downside of the internet is that it givers very stupid people a voice, in a fair society brains should get you ahead, not money, and people certainly shouldn't be allowed opportunities if they're clearly deliberately ignorant without bothering to read the two sides of every story/debate and come to a proper judgement.
... but the Lib-Dems support the EU which is against everything you stand for? Nigel Farage got fined and asked to apologise for saying the (un-elected) EU president had as much personality as a 'damp rag'. The lib-Dems support that very behaviour to fine and force an apology.
Lib-Dem want reforms in the UK but will sacrifice any power Parliament will actually have. The Lib-Dems want reforms because they know a Lab-Lib alliance will cement their agenda. it's about power and not democracy.
I agree fundamentally we don't have democracy but the lib-dems aren't offering anything better... if anything it's much worse... that's all I am saying! I am not voting Tory btw because I don't believe in voting for the better of three evils.
Of course there are many who are wealthy out of their own work (and should be admired for that), then there are those scum who are wealthy through inheritance (and are just as bad as any benefit cheat). Then there are also those who work hard but hit a glass cieling, it is not fair for these people, their opportunities are limited by money.
Equality of opportunity is important, but the current way of going about trying to achieve it is very wrong. Ticking boxes so that so many of this ethnicity and so many of that orientation is far too contrived.
What I mean is, ability should be the only deciding factor in how well someone gets on in life.
Under a conservative government, I fear wealth will be more important, under the Labour government they seem to be obsessed with ethnicity and so on, ticking boxes and meeting quotas of people, which works out just as unfair in the end.
Ability should be the only thing that comes into it, so yes WR holders in LFS deserve to be better than everyone else, because they have ability, they didn't pay their way to the top and they didn't get there through some forced equal opportunities scheme despite not having the right skills either. You can't force employers to give everyone equal opportunities to work they way up through more rules and regulations and targets, you have to change hearts and minds, convince people to decide to employ people based on skills alone by themselves.
I think a fair society can be made to work properly without too much spending, just not the way Labour or Conservatives want to go about doing it, and Lib Dems, god knows.
1. You have a feeling they'll cut more than necessary - You are simply living in a dream world. We need gigantic cuts or the country will go bankrupt. And that's bad news whichever way you look at it
2. Employers don't care about qualifications (as much as they used to) - Experience and knowledge is key and increasingly this is a commodity rarely found. Either spend 3 years at Uni or actually go out spend 3 years working hard. The internet is a next to free source of information. Stop being so lazy and actually use it and work hard.
3. There is not such thing as a fair tax. Tax is tax... and thus inherently un-fair.
4. You talk about people with brains should get ahead and not those with money? How do you think people actually get money? I think your terribly ignorant almost bigoted against wealthy people. They work hard, bring wealth to the UK, and create MILLIONS of jobs!
If you tax wealthy people they work less and revenues go down. This has been proven time and time and time again. And if you tax them too hard they just leave the country and that way you'll have NO ONE paying your bills.
ask any physics boffin and you'll learn the truth is only 1 possible ocurrance in a multitude of possibilities which may or may not have happened simultaneously.
Regarding Lib Dems and the anti-hate speech thing, as I said earlier there is no party that represents Anyones views 100%. If I had my way we'd have a true democracy in Britain, a system of rolling elections and true proportional representation. Lib Dems are calling for the closet thing to it, Labour and Conservatives have already laid the framework for this conversation not being possible at the next election.
Personally I'm not bothered by your mention of thy legislature, the whole concept of prejudice is absent from me, it's about as much as I can do to muster up some frustration at the Large number of elements in the christian right for hating me, but I don't even hate them: I'd rather just teach them. If a law is needed, so be it. Personally I'm not that botered as long as I can get married and visit my wife in hospital when she's I'll. Oh wait, I can't.
5Haz what planet are you on. You can't CREATE that system. Re-allocation of wealth always leads to what we are living in now! It fails every single time. Also you seem to be ignorant to the opportunities out there now for people. But people get on their socialist high horse talking about 'fairness'. it's like saying RedBull should run with ballast and Virgin be given an engine boost... 'coz it's fair'. Is utter tosh.
And wait a second it's bad for someone to inherit wealth yet it's NOT bad for someone to get their d1ck wet to have a family and expect free money?
Sorry but if someone wants to give their children money it is NONE of your... or MY business! If someone works hard all their life it is up to THEM how they allocate their wealth. Not some pen pusher trying to win votes. Either way you take that opportunity away from a wealthy person to pass ont heir money they'll leave the country and you'll get NO taxes then.
I guess everyone in the country in poverty is fairer though
Universities are becoming less and less relevant. Viva la intenet 