Quote from tristancliffe :

It is pointless, because Motorsport Eng is a cop out - you study some aspects of both Mech and Aero, but get none of the detail. Motorsport teams don't want that. The Adrian Newey's of the future (apart from the fact that it's all about management now) will study specific areas in detail, not lots of areas vaguely.

It'll take more than 6 years to be fully qualified, even if everything goes to plan. Most degrees are work based; you have to do lots of work - lectures, homework, placements...

I'm pretty sure Bath University (it is this one?) doesn't win FS every year.

You want to do this course because it has the word Motorsport in the title, not because it'll help you get a brilliant career afterwards.

A road/track car based on a hatchback is essentially chavving it up. Nothing on your degree will be useful (except maybe if you specialise in turbocharging you could be the first Max Power Moron to specify a sensible turbo on their upgrade) to 'track prepping' a hatchback on a student budget.

If you want to build a performance car using your degree, start designing one, order some 25x25x18SWG box section and a MIG welder, and get cracking......

http://www.wiltshire-college-m ... co.uk/courses/default.asp

Thats what I'm doing. It's not because it has motorsport in it... I want to be building/designing race cars! They are the courses, end degree they give you is BSc which I believe is Science but then you can go Bath University to do a BEng in Motorsport Engineering. So will take me 6-10yrs. So I'll be 26-27yrs old when fully qualified which most people in that game are lol.

Also... Yeah you need qualifications but you also need experience which Wiltshire college get you so you can get employed.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Depends on the age. Which version of the Impreza is that one that can't do corners (understeer)? Avoid that version.

Wouldn't suit you? Who cares; an MX-5 isn't a fashion statement, it's a driving experience. Who cares what you look like in it!!! Maybe, if you do, you should be doing a fashion degree or a hairdressing diploma?

It'll be around 1997-2000 mark.

Ignoring for a second whether it's the "right" course or not, you're never going to get a "quickish" car that's also cheap. Even if the car itself doesn't break the bank, you'll pay for any kind of popular sporty-ish car when it comes to insurance. Particularly since almost everything mentioned earlier in this thread has 'boy racer' written all over it.

Hell, I'm nearly 30 and my quotes are still ridiculous (comes from not passing my test until 18 months ago). Every car you can buy will hit 70 or 80mph, there's no need to go faster than that all that often unless you actually ARE trying to kill yourself (which would be a waste of asking for advice). Even ignoring reliability (because as a mechanical engineer you should be able to repair most of your cars problems by yourself, right?), getting something with an economical engine (1.8 or under) will be cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure and cheaper to run, leaving you more money to buy whatever else you might want.
My old 96 323F was a blast to drive. 1.5 engine, FWD but it pre-dated drive by wire so was responsive. Compared to the Leon (6 years newer with 100lb/ft more torque) it was great fun. And it was designed by ex-Porsche guys and looks a lot more sporty than it actually is. I'm hoping one day I'll be able to get another.

Hang on, haven't we had this conversation with forumites a million or so times? And doesn't it always end up that they ignore us and do what they want to anyway? Have I just wasted all those keystrokes? Bah.

If you want to be designing/building racing cars, then don't do Motorsport Engineering!

If you get a BSc (Bachelor of Science) and then do a Bachelor of Engineering (BEng) in Motorsport Engineering then you won't be fully qualified. Fully qualified is at least when you're a Chartered Member of the IMechE, which takes a few years AFTER graduation even if you do everything quickly and properly.

Experience is important, but modifying a road car won't gain you anything useful to employers.

I don't know my Impreza's well enough to say whether that is a good age range. But I think it is - the ugly one that ploughed on regardless of steering input was a bit later I think.

E: You'd be better off studying Science/Maths/Technology at A-Level, and/or doing a one year University Foundation of Engineering course rather than wasting 3 years doing a pointless BSc...

Quote from tristancliffe :

If you want to be designing/building racing cars, then don't do Motorsport Engineering!

If you get a BSc (Bachelor of Science) and then do a Bachelor of Engineering (BEng) in Motorsport Engineering then you won't be fully qualified. Fully qualified is at least when you're a Chartered Member of the IMechE, which takes a few years AFTER graduation even if you do everything quickly and properly.

Experience is important, but modifying a road car won't gain you anything useful to employers.

I don't know my Impreza's well enough to say whether that is a good age range. But I think it is - the ugly one that ploughed on regardless of steering input was a bit later I think.

Blob eye thing... Yeah the old ones are the good'uns lol.

I know me doing my own car will mean nothing to employers, I just want a project to do lol.

After a few years I'll know whether I can move to uni after doing my foundation degree and then see if I can move to Bath University to do a BEng in Motorsport Engineering. Do you reckon that is a better path?

Quote :

E: You'd be better off studying Science/Maths/Technology at A-Level, and/or doing a one year University Foundation of Engineering course rather than wasting 3 years doing a pointless BSc...

I don't have the grades to do A Levels. Hence why I have to do it this way.

Do you have MSN or something similar so can talk about it elsewhere?

Tristan, stop talking crap. You're scaring the boy! (Now I'm going to as well)

Motorsport Engineering can be a decent course, you just have to study it at the right place (and have the right attitude). You should know that, as we both went to the same uni.

However, I don't think I'd want to study it anywhere else than here, as every other uni dumbs it down with too much cars and not enough knowledge. Good if you want to be a mechanic or technician, bad if you want to do real engineering.

As such, I'd still recommend Mech. Eng. degrees at every other uni.

Sam, seriously try to get proper qualifications. I'm sure you can wangle your way into a college to do maths/physics/something else (product design/electronics?). Committing to motorsport so early shows a narrow mind, and if you ever want or need to change jobs you'll be at a disadvantage. Given how quick teams can go bust, you need to be versatile.

The absolute best way to go about it is college -> uni Mech. Eng. (MEng, MSc) degree with a year placement in industry. Any other way will be much harder, and might shut off a lot of opportunities. Big teams will only hire people with 'real' degrees to proper engineering roles, but you stand a chance as a technician/mechanic/manager otherwise.

With regards to the car, get an MX-5 or Mk1 MR2.

Forgot to say something aswell... The University courses the college run are ran by Bath University aswell. So it cant be crap.

There was a Formula Ford car there that the students have designed and built from the ground up. If they don't teach enough, how will they be able to design and build one!

Yeah, I'll need a BEng to hit my dream but thats years away, I want to work my way up through working on Single Seater race cars and finally try to get into GP2/F1 team working on their cars. It's aiming high, but thats what drives me!

You wont talk me out of it lol.

My mate is doing Mechanical Engineering but he really wanted to do a Motorsport Engineering course as it what interests him.

Quote from sam93 :

There was a Formula Ford car there that the students have designed and built from the ground up. If they don't teach enough, how will they be able to design and build one!

I could have designed and built a formula ford car when I was about 12. It wouldn't have been any good at all, but I could have done it.

Building a car is EASY. Weld some tube together so that the engine doesn't move about much and some wheels can hold it off the floor, and you have a car.

Making a car quick/strong/flexible/rigid/reliable/good looking/responsive/handle/maintainable/cost effective (not the same as cheap) etc etc is the hard part.

Quote from sam93 :

My mate is doing Mechanical Engineering but he really wanted to do a Motorsport Engineering course as it what interests him.

I don't think he'll regret it in 15 years time.

Quote from spookthehamster :

Tristan, stop talking crap. You're scaring the boy! (Now I'm going to as well)

Motorsport Engineering can be a decent course, you just have to study it at the right place (and have the right attitude). You should know that, as we both went to the same uni.

However, I don't think I'd want to study it anywhere else than here, as every other uni dumbs it down with too much cars and not enough knowledge. Good if you want to be a mechanic or technician, bad if you want to do real engineering.

As such, I'd still recommend Mech. Eng. degrees at every other uni.

Sam, seriously try to get proper qualifications. I'm sure you can wangle your way into a college to do maths/physics/something else (product design/electronics?). Committing to motorsport so early shows a narrow mind, and if you ever want or need to change jobs you'll be at a disadvantage. Given how quick teams can go bust, you need to be versatile.

The absolute best way to go about it is college -> uni Mech. Eng. (MEng, MSc) degree with a year placement in industry. Any other way will be much harder, and might shut off a lot of opportunities. Big teams will only hire people with 'real' degrees to proper engineering roles, but you stand a chance as a technician/mechanic/manager otherwise.

With regards to the car, get an MX-5 or Mk1 MR2.

The College I'm going out do teach you Maths and Science aswell. You're confusing me like fook lol.

I've been to the college and know everything they offer. Their courses are ran by Bath University. I can't do A Levels because of my grades so have to start at the bottom... I have 2 Cs and rest are Ds. They said after a certain amount of time they can put you into Bath University to do BEng which I've emailed about asking.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I could have designed and built a formula ford car when I was about 12. It wouldn't have been any good at all, but I could have done it.

Building a car is EASY. Weld some tube together so that the engine doesn't move about much and some wheels can hold it off the floor, and you have a car.

Making a car quick/strong/flexible/rigid/reliable/good looking/responsive/handle/maintainable/cost effective (not the same as cheap) etc etc is the hard part.

Very true.

But the car they have built cant be crap if its won the championship they enter into for 3yrs in a row.

Why would Motorsport Engineering stop me getting a job in a race team building cars ffs.

Even if I manage to get into a race team and they go bust... Set up own company tuning cars etc...

If you like it, you do it. Something I have learnt myself is to never follow your friends and most of the time ignore what others are saying about your path. If it drives you, you go for it. Simple as.

Also, you're a perfect example of dicking in school. Yes you had a good time and a laugh in school and ignored the lessons and all that, but look now how you have to pay for it. If only you knew, eh?

Quote from DevilDare :

If you like it, you do it. Something I have learnt myself is to never follow your friends and most of the time ignore what others are saying about your path. If it drives you, you go for it. Simple as.

Also, you're a perfect example of dicking in school. Yes you had a good time and a laugh in school and ignored the lessons and all that, but look now how you have to pay for it. If only you knew, eh?

I'm going to follow what I want to do.

Yes I did mess about in school... Got kicked out of one school is year 7 and was never one to listen. Always having a laugh and getting into a bit of trouble for fighting. But learnt from my mistakes and now paying for it having to take the long route. Going to make sure I revise now though when comes to exams as I never have done before lol.

Oh... you want to BUILD cars? As in become a motorsport grease monkey? Yeah, a diploma or BSc in anything vaguely engineering based will be enough up to around GP2 level. But you said you wanted to design/make racing cars, and that's a much grander profession with much much higher requirements. Lazy or thick people need not apply (I haven't for instance).

And a crap car can win championships 3 years in a row - against other crap cars. It's not Formula Student (you said Formula Ford), but it won't be in British or Club Formula Ford either.... Is it one of the Combe Championships that the rest of the world doesn't bother paying attention to?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Oh... you want to BUILD cars? As in become a motorsport grease monkey? Yeah, a diploma or BSc in anything vaguely engineering based will be enough up to around GP2 level. But you said you wanted to design/make racing cars, and that's a much grander profession with much much higher requirements. Lazy or thick people need not apply (I haven't for instance).

And a crap car can win championships 3 years in a row - against other crap cars. It's not Formula Student (you said Formula Ford), but it won't be in British or Club Formula Ford either.... Is it one of the Combe Championships that the rest of the world doesn't bother paying attention to?

I dont know what championship they enter.

What qualifications will allow me to work in F1 either setting up the cars, repairing them and designing building em. I imagine would need a BEng in Motorsport Engineering then, which I Would get from Bath Uni?

It all depends on what you really want to do (Specifically. Not either that, that or that). At the moment it just sounds like you want to work in GP2/F1 just because, well because its F1, which is not a very good mindset.

Quote from DevilDare :

It all depends on what you really want to do (Specifically. Not eitehr that, that or that). At the moment it just sounds like you want to work in GP2/F1 just because, well because its F1, which is not a very good mindset.

No I wont to hit the best career I can. I've been interested in cars all my life. And want to build and design race cars. It's my dream, not just because it's F1. It's like promitions in work, you attempt to reach the best position you can!

Quote from sam93 :

I dont know what championship they enter.

What qualifications will allow me to work in F1 either setting up the cars, repairing them and designing building em. I imagine would need a BEng in Motorsport Engineering then, which I Would get from Bath Uni?

Tristan has a point here. You seem to have various ideas about what you want to do. If you just want to spanner then your degree would be fine. But the finer details of designing a race car, especially in the modern era, requires more detailed knowledge. Newey has a degree in Aeronautics and Virgin designer Nick Wirth has a degree in Mechanical Engineering for example

i've skim-read through this, and was interested as i too was thinking of doing motorsport engineering, however in a different way:

-A-levels (Maths, Physics, DT (and maybe further maths or just an AS level in further maths))

-Mechanical engineering at uni (BEng)

-"specialise" in motorsport engineering, hopefully in the US (MSc?)

can anyone give me some helpful, non flaming advice on whether this sound like a good idea?

cheers

DT wont help and Further Maths goes into the theoretical far too much which wont help for what your trying to do - but Maths and Physics is a good start.

Quote from Jakg :

DT wont help and Further Maths goes into the theoretical far too much which wont help for what your trying to do - but Maths and Physics is a good start.

How will design not help?

Again, I would say if you want a top career in something like F1 designing parts of specialised prototype cars, then you'd be better of specialising in something Mechanical or Aeronautical, rather than doing a 'jack-of-all-trades' Motorsport degree, ideally up to MEng/MSc standard, and spending a few years in lower formulae getting experience/chartership.

Of course, there will be those that get through on a Motorsport degree (rare), those that get there without any qualifications at all (very very rare), and those that are 150% qualified for the job but don't get it because of other factors (interview ability, team work, coping under pressure etc). There is no right answer.

But I would say that if you want to design racing cars then a decent standard in a decent (non Motorsport) degree is the way forward. If you want to work at F1 level then a BEng is probably the best way to go, and you might get away with Motorsport if you don't have any illusions of getting past the Wishbone Fitter stage. The further down the ladder you aspire to (and bear in mind there aren't many jobs in F1, but an awful lot of applicants, so it would be VERY wise to lower your goals to FFord levels) the lower the qualifications of the best jobs in each branch.

Liking cars doesn't mean jack. The fact that you pissed around in school means you're unlikely to want to be away from home and friends for 340 days of the year doing 60 hour shifts in cold, damp paddocks. Motorsport, except at the very peak (where there are maybe 1000 jobs in the world), is NOT a glamorous or well paid job.

E: Design helps (at GCSE and A-Level). Further maths would help massively if it doesn't detract from everything else. I did Further Maths, but I wasn't clever enough to do it and 4 other A-Levels (this was before AS Levels meant giving up after one year), and ultimately I did worse at everything else. Had I been clever/committed enough, then further maths would have helped at degree level a lot - remember, a degree is 99% theory, so basic theoretical maths is perfect.

I'm wanting to design the car/engine but yes I am also a hands on person as I'm also good with my hands.

I'm asking what qualifications I need to do the things I listed to get an idea what I need. I know what I want to do... Design and build the parts of the car with maybe the oppurtunity to be a mechanic on a race weekend as I'm sure all the people there in f1 in the pits working on the car are engineers and during the week some of em work on making the car better.

So yeah, I want to design and build the race cars

Tristan I said I learnt from my mistakes and like I said won't piss abot no more.

My bestway of knowing what I need is to contact these teams tbh

You don't seem to have much grasp of what is required at F1 level, or what each person does....

Engine building - don't apply to the F1 teams or do a Motorsport Degree. You'll need to specialise (at Masters and Doctorate levels) in various things to go there, and you'll want to apply to car companies and work your way up their internal ladder (Renault for instance). The exception might be Ferrari, but again you'd probably do better to start in the road car engine division and aim towards F1 engine team promotion.

Designing the cars - yes a lot of the mechanics are engineers, but not that many of them will on CAD stations doing the designing. Some will. It very much depends on the person and the team... But as the garage team members often don't go back to HQ between races it's unlikely they do much of the development design and testing work, although they might give feedback, brainstorm etc with those people.

Quote from sam93 :

Very true.

But the car they have built cant be crap if its won the championship they enter into for 3yrs in a row.

Why would Motorsport Engineering stop me getting a job in a race team building cars ffs.

They haven't, Uni of Bath have won Best UK team in Formula Student for 3 years on the trot, they haven't actually won the event.