Essence: Points will be awarded according to the average track positions in a race.

Gist: After each lap, 22 provisional pts are awarded to the race leader, and 21 provisional pts to the driver running second and so forth. Do so for every single lap of the GP distance, and at the end of the race we get a summation of points for each driver, noted as P. The championship points for a driver is then decided by P/N, where N is the number of total laps of that particular grand prix.

Extras: 3 points are awarded to the fastest lap time holder; 5 points are awarded to the race winner.

Illustration: Say, if Alonso starts 2nd on the grid at Silverstone and overtakes the pole sitter to lead after lap 1, he will be awarded 22 provisional pts, if he is quick enough to lead every single lap of the race, then after the race, (22*60/60)+5=22+5=27 championship pts are awarded to him. If he further sets FL, he then gets a 30, which is also the maximum a driver could get out of a race.



It's actually a variable points system and I think it would be huge fun. Comments please!

Some advantages of the new system.


1) Everyone will get points. Suppose Super Aguri run their two cars without trouble to finish, even if they are always the last two on the track during the race, they will still get 3 pts in the end.

2) Big bonus for the winner. 5 pts equal about the pts earned by leading the race for one fouth of a gp distance.

3) Encourage overtaking. Track positions are vital, any lap that you run stucked behind your rival will mean you are losing pts to him, drivers will be desperate to pass on track.

4) Championship down to the wire. Do you like the idea of someone clinching the title with 5 races to go? Well with this one it will be a very unlikely scenario. Mostly because there are 8 extra pts up for grab each race. Take this year for example, Alonso won't feel comfortable when he's running second to MS, and he certainly won't win the title finishing second all the time in the second half of the season, which is possible under the current system.

5) Vast range of possibilities. Let's assume the championship goes to the last race with the leader A 3 pts ahead closest contender B. In the race however, B is brilliant and has a comfortable lead over A towards the end of the race. Although it's not very likely for A to overtake B, A still has a chance to win the WDC by setting the FL. Meanwhile it's up to B to prevent that from happening...What a race that would be!

6) ...


It will boost the quality of racing and will be especially helpful for an exciting showdown among the title contenders.

uh.. no it wont lol thats why we dont have credit system anymore lol cause it does no good

Quote from thisnameistaken :

With that system, you could potentially finish dead last and still score more points than anybody else.

I think with second thought you will regret what you said here. It is simply impossible.

Regards.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

According to your explanation points are awarded without relation to a driver's finishing position, so it's eminently possible.

I'm sure the FIA would approve of this system though. It's pointlessly complicated and doesn't reward the race winner.

1. False. A driver's finishing position is taken into consideration. It's either you didn't even look at my idea or that you are giving inaccurate comments.

2. One sentence is used to describe the system---Points will be awarded according to the average track positions in a race. And again, I take it that you didn't bother to actually look at my proposal where it clearly says 5 extra pts for the race winner, which is huge with this syste.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

With that system, you could potentially finish dead last and still score more points than anybody else.

Yeah the way its been explained if finish 1st you get 22 points but it is then divided by laps so say 60 which gives u 0.3 points but if blow up on first lap ud get 1 point but with one lap so would get one point.

Edit : from your explination what i said above makes sense, form you example though i see how it could work.

Quote from Greboth :

Yeah the way its been explained if finish 1st you get 22 points but it is then divided by laps so say 60 which gives u 0.3 points but if blow up on first lap ud get 1 point but with one lap so would get one point.

Edit : from your explination what i said above makes sense, form you example though i see how it could work.

OK. Then how do you like it?

Hmmmm..... Mr wE1l, with the greatest respect, i think you may be spending too much time alone. Go out, meet a girl, have fun, there's so much more to life than this yunno

Quote from thisnameistaken :

There's a 5-point bonus for first place, but that doesn't mean you'll come away with more points than the guy who finishes last.

Example:

A driver leads a 60-lap race from pole, but drops to last place on the final lap. Final score: 21.65

Another driver spends half the race in 11th (330), moves up to lead the race by passing one car every three laps, and wins. Score: 14.85, plus 5 for the win, gives him 19.85.

So the guy who finishes last scores about two more points than the guy who wins the race.

Which bit didn't I understand?

+1 for the example. But it happens to magnify an important feature of the system---each lap of effort of the driver is rewarded.

Like Kimi at the 'Ring, last year. He drove a fantastic race, from second on the grid, and led for most of the race. But his front suspension failed him on the very last lap, so even though he was still 'classified', (in 11th place), he received zero points, for what was a truly valiant effort.
Zero points is by no stretch of the imagination what Kimi deserved for putting in that fantastic drive.

Now how many times we see a DNF totally negates the abilities and efforts of top drivers who have had their car 'let them down', though NO FAULT of the driver himself. ("hydraulics failure" is a favourite in this category). This system fully appreciate every kph of speed a driver shows in a GP and reward them with due points. It will surely make good of the title bid.

And above all, what is the possibility of your example happens? And even if it does happen, I think the driver who led from pole for all but one lap of the race is trully brilliant and should be awarded for his effort and speed!

Quote from Mazz4200 :

Hmmmm..... Mr wE1l, with the greatest respect, i think you may be spending too much time alone. Go out, meet a girl, have fun, there's so much more to life than this yunno

ROFL! Good piece of advice mate, although you know I do do that.

I don't usually come out with such ideas, but recently I once again got pissed off knowing that Alonso only needs to finish in one of the remaining races ahead of Schumacher to take the title if he could finish second to Schu in the other races. I have had this idea for long but didn't ever bother to think an inch more about it since I knew I cound't change anything, but recently when I gave it a full consideration I find this system truthfully brilliant and should be the modern way of evaluate race performances, and the more I think about it the more I love it.

Anyway I'd like you leave some comments regarding this issue rather than giving out some personal advise on the way of living.

I think, this is far too complicated and would turn many fans away, if it was used.

Whilst I don't think the FIA will ever use such a system, I do believe it has it's merits. It's obviously not flawless, but show me a points system which is. (Edit: I want to stress that it would never be a workable, marketable, understandable system, but I like the fact that he's thinking laterally, rather than just moaning about F1).

I don't want to make too many comments, because we don't have a lot to go on at the moment. I've asked wE1l to calculate how the top positions would have looked from last year, or perhaps this year as well, and maybe it would given an indication of how it would actually work. In fact, if my friend cancels on me tomorrow (pub), then I'll have a crack at working it out for two or three drivers, and making a little graph to go with it.

Does anyone know where I can download a lap chart of last years races, ideally in tabular format, but I guess a pic would be okay? Someone, somewhere must love stats that much?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

So I'm right, then? Next time you should use the word "unlikely" instead of "impossible".

It's what they call the "unusual downfall of wE1l".

Quote from thisnameistaken :

He was the only driver in that race to trash a front tyre so badly that it tore the suspension apart. Should he be rewarded for that?

There are many other occasions (Mika at Spain 01 for one), where the driver put on a solid performance only to be denied all his effort through no fault of his own.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I think a guy who fights his way up from 11th to win the race deserves way more points than a guy who had the win sewn up and then stuffed it up on the final lap and finished dead last.

Your imaginary example isn't all convincing. Why not take a look at a rather extreme one, the Japanese grand prix last year, where Fisichella was in the top 3 of the race for 47 laps, 29 of which in the lead, while Raikkonen only did it in 18 laps, only 6 of which in the lead. This is how the podium finishers look like in the end. (Mind it's a 20 car grid, so the top provisional pts per lap is 20 rather than 22.)

===========P. Pts=========Ave P. Pts=======Extra====Final
Raikkonen------826-------------15.585-------------8------23.585
Fisichella------1012-------------19.094-------------0------19.094
Alonso---------783-------------14.774-------------0------14.774

Even without the bonus of 3 pts for FL, Raikkonen will still be 1.5 pts ahead of Fisichella.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Call me old fashioned, but to me motor racing is about finishing positions. And I don't think your system would encourage overtaking - drivers would think "Oh well, ten laps to go, there's no point passing this guy infront of me because I'll only score .05 more points for it and he'll still score more points than me".

Let's look back at the racing concept. Quote wikipedia:"A race is a competition of speed. The competitors in a race try to complete a given task in the shortest amount of time. Typically this involves traversing some distance, but it can be any other task involving speed." See, what you call the basic concept of racing, namely "to run a determined distance in the least possible time" is actually just a means to determine who is the quicker. I think my proposal can be tweaked to allow final position awards, but the system itself is not in contradiction to the essence of racing. On the contrary, I think it is a more accurate way to evaluate speed. So that those drivers who put on brilliant performances and showcase tons of speed will be recognised. Isn't that what racing should be about---no lazily lapping slowly waiting to pick up points due to others' DNFs, but fighting for positions and show the speed you have at any time in a race. For me, to find yourself a comfortable place and turn the revs down is a disrespect to the spirit of racing.

As for your saying it won't encourage overtaking, I will remind you that every lap your running behind your rivals are costing you points, and this system guarentees that there will be more not less incentives to overtake than systems based solely on final standings.

Quote from zeugnimod :

I think, this is far too complicated and would turn many fans away, if it was used.

To explain its advantages, rather than the perceived too-complicated-will turn-away-fans scenario, below is what I call the "casual viewer scenario".

Suppose you happen to be watching a race with a friend who doesn't follow F1, and------ 1) he is amazed by how desperate the drivers are attempting to overtake, and you say to him, it's because every lap he will be given pts w.r.t his track positions. 2) he is bored to watch a parade of cars and asks why don't they try to overtake each other, and you say to him, well he doesn't have to, he carries more fuel so he could "overtake" in the pit.

Nahhh.. wE1l, it was only a friendly bit of ribbing (but you knew that)

Honestly, as Zeugnimod said, its far to complex a system for the average punter to understand.
In fact i would prefer to go back to the old points sytem, i.e. (9,6,4,3,2,1, and 1 point for fastest lap, + maybe add another for pole)
Simple as that. It's been well known for years that boring race's are caused by boring cars that adhere to boring regulations, but come 2008, hopefully, and i repeat hopefully, all the new reg's will be brought in, and we should all get the close racing we've been hoping for for years,
However..........

Quote from tristancliffe :

Whilst I don't think the FIA will ever use such a system, I do believe it has it's merits. It's obviously not flawless, but show me a points system which is. (Edit: I want to stress that it would never be a workable, marketable, understandable system, but I like the fact that he's thinking laterally, rather than just moaning about F1).

I don't want to make too many comments, because we don't have a lot to go on at the moment. I've asked wE1l to calculate how the top positions would have looked from last year, or perhaps this year as well, and maybe it would given an indication of how it would actually work. In fact, if my friend cancels on me tomorrow (pub), then I'll have a crack at working it out for two or three drivers, and making a little graph to go with it.

Does anyone know where I can download a lap chart of last years races, ideally in tabular format, but I guess a pic would be okay? Someone, somewhere must love stats that much?

Hi again Tristan!

I worked out the European race and Australian one this year, along with Suzuka 05, are all races that I've worked on. I will give the result in my next result.

For stats, look nowhere other than--- http://www.alesi.demon.nl or http://www.visionf1.com/race_index.html

Quote from wE1l :

To explain its advantages, rather than the perceived too-complicated-will turn-away-fans scenario, below is what I call the "casual viewer scenario".

Suppose you happen to be watching a race with a friend who doesn't follow F1, and------ 1) he is amazed by how desperate the drivers are attempting to overtake, and you say to him, it's because every lap he will be given pts w.r.t his track positions.

Then, he would want to know, how exactly they calculate the points and who is actually leading points-wise atm and I would be lost.

No, seriously, I wasnt talking about someone, who watches maybe 1 or 2 races per season. Tbh, it is already too complicated for my taste, and I normally watch every race.

Here, I applied the system to the European GP this year, and this is how the two title contenders look like.

----------------------------Alonso--------Schumacher
Provisional Pts--------------- 1235 --------- 1232
Ave. Provisional Pts --------- 20.583 ------- 20.533
Extra------------------------- 0 ------------- 8
Total----------------------- 20.583 ------- 28.533


Alonso led for more laps than Schu in the race, but on the whole it was a dog fight between the two. This fact is duly reflected on the provisional points, with Alonso only three provisional pts ahead. However Schu won the race, and that made the difference. As rewarding the winner is essential for the new system

Another essential point of the system is to reward the FASTEST. The whole 3rd stint of the Europe race was some kind of a bore, with Alonso wittingly reserve the engine for the next round. But given the new system, Alonso still has a chance to cut the dificit by running a qualifying like lap to clinch the FL thus 3 extra pts. If he does that then the final pts of the race will look like 23.583 vs. 25.533

Now for Melbourne.

-----------------------------Alonso--------Schumacher
Provisional Pts--------------- 1203 --------- 456
Ave. Provisional Pts --------- 21.105 ------- 8.000
Extra------------------------- 5 ------------- 0
Total----------------------- 26.105 ------- 8.000


Alonso won a brilliant race in which he led for most of the race, but he didn't set the FL, with which he would've got a 29.105, very close to the maximum 30!

Schumacher on the other hand, ran nicely before the mistake and was at one time the fastest man on the track. With the new system, he won't leave without appreciation for his effort, as shown above 8 championship pts are awarded to him.

I rather like the concept of awarding all those who take part in the game. Especially when you lead for most of the race but retire on the last lap, although you won't get the winner's ultimate bonus your pace throughout the race will be paid back by due points. Sometimes it's just so sad to see a brilliant driver to lose all through no fault of his own---Mika in Spain 01 (or is it 00 ). The "lucky b@stard" will still be lucky, but the unfortunate loser won't be double punished.

Quote from Mazz4200 :

Nahhh.. wE1l, it was only a friendly bit of ribbing (but you knew that)

Honestly, as Zeugnimod said, its far to complex a system for the average punter to understand.
In fact i would prefer to go back to the old points sytem, i.e. (9,6,4,3,2,1, and 1 point for fastest lap, + maybe add another for pole)
Simple as that. It's been well known for years that boring race's are caused by boring cars that adhere to boring regulations, but come 2008, hopefully, and i repeat hopefully, all the new reg's will be brought in, and we should all get the close racing we've been hoping for for years,
However..........

What I dislike about the fixed system to award points by and only by the final standings is it does not reflects well who is giving a better performance. Like Mika at the Spainish GP in 2001, he led for most of the race only to lose out on the final lap due to a mysterious breakdown of his McLaren. How did he did in the race? Fantastic. What did he get out of it? 0 pts. What are the fans' reaction? It sucks.

However we can improve on that, we can use the fact that GPs are run in circles to finetuning the evaluation system.

Well at this rate, I can see this system working in 100 years time.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Then, he would want to know, how exactly they calculate the points and who is actually leading points-wise atm and I would be lost.

No, seriously, I wasnt talking about someone, who watches maybe 1 or 2 races per season. Tbh, it is already too complicated for my taste, and I normally watch every race.

Seriously, it's NOT THAT complicated. People are awarded provisional pts on a per lap basis, and have the final summation divided by the race laps is what you get!

As for the audience, a provisional pts chart could be featured in real time on TV and live timing to give us a clear view of who is in front for longer!

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Meh. I still say whoever finishes first quite obviously completed the race quicker than anybody else. If you looked at average speed you'd find the guy who finished first was the fastest, whereas your proposed system wouldn't necessarily demonstrate anything of the sort.



OK, well let's have another example:

The second and third-placed cars have been running in those positions from the start of the race. It's a 60-lap race, and 50 laps have run, the guy in 2nd is currently on 21 points, and the guy in third is on 20. If he passes the guy in 2nd and takes 2nd position for the final ten laps, he will finish with 20.1666 (recurring) points, and the guy who finishes third will score 20.8333 (recurring) points.

With the current F1 points system, this pass would be worth 2 points.

Bear in mind also that a single point, under your system, isn't as valuable as a single point under the current system, because so many more points are granted each race. So scoring an extra 0.1666 points for making a pass for 2nd place with ten laps to go would be much less of an incentive than scoring 2 points under the current system.

I think thus far you are the most constructive critic I've received. I really appreciate your effort!

But consier this system on the whole, right from race 1 every driver would probably get a lot of points, with roughly 1 point separating them from their closest rivals. And every race your rivals are picking up points, unless they win or set the FL, the positions will be ALL that will decide how you compare with your rivals. This will make it a delicate game, with points refined by decimals. I think sometimes 0.166 is all what you need to get the better of your rival, and if you are content to just sit behind and not trying a move you lose out. And with this system the earlier you overtake your rival the more you will gain, the more your rival will lose, something that the old fixed system can NOT provide, thus extra incentives to overtake. Yes I stick to it. Only need a simulation on RL to see how it will work!

Why would they want to change the point system, whats wrong with it as it is

Your way is too complicated to work out quickly ... so anyone new to F1 will probably not understand and not watch again.

As said all ready, passing near the end, or on the final lap is basically pointless (<-- get it :chairfall) and thats what is most exciting, a close finish.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Well, yes, potentially 0.166 of a point might decide a championship. Similarly, two points might decide a championship this year, but drivers are still quite often content to turn the engine down and finish second.

In fact it would be even more tempting to back off towards the end of a race under your proposed system, because the later in the race you are, the smaller the benefits of passing become.

Anyway, that's my take on it, I'm off to bed. Interesting idea, but I don't like it

Here's another one: How about awarding points according to how many seconds behind the leader you finish? Then whoever is in the lead of the race would want to push all the way to the finish to maximise his points, and everybody else would have to chase just as hard. Plus it would be easy to see how many points someone is going to score at any point in the race.

Firstly, it will be a HUGELY different story if your talking about the title war between two or more contenders. Since you may only be awarded 0.166 pts or double that considering the rival you pass lose 0.166 at the same time, but if that's for the win, then an extra 5 golden pts are rewarded as the ultimate prize!

Never look down upon these 5 pts, since it's mega in this system. It equals about 5 places upon finish, and this comes as an extra bonus. Take this year's European race for example, it was a close fight and Alonso came second, but with Schumacher winning and setting the FL, he eventually lost eight pts to Schu, which is HUGE under this system, since 8 pts roughly equals 8 places upon finish! With this system, the championship leader will be under immense pressure even if he has a "comfortable" lead, since he simply can't settle for second and not owning the FL, there are 8 extra pts up for grab.

----------------------------Alonso--------Schumacher
Provisional Pts--------------- 1235 --------- 1232
Ave. Provisional Pts --------- 20.583 ------- 20.533
Extra------------------------- 0 ------------- 8
Total----------------------- 20.583 ------- 28.533

So why is 8 pts huge with this system? Let us again take this year's Australian race for example. In this race Schumacher crashed out, but with this system his effort is recognised by 8 pts, so even though Alonso drove a brilliant race he could only stretch his lead by 14 pts.

-----------------------------Alonso--------Schumacher
Provisional Pts--------------- 1203 --------- 456
Ave. Provisional Pts --------- 21.105 ------- 8.000
Extra------------------------- 5 ------------- 0
Total----------------------- 26.105 ------- 8.000

I think you should get the picture why this system is vastly advantageous for a thrilling title war. It makes it very difficult to build a large gap, and there are simply too many variations that could affect the final outcome of the championship. Also with other drivers score constant points, there will probably be more potential title contenders.

Or cut it short and just think about this year's championship, now Alonso could be content to come second to Schumacher in all the remaining races but the last one, and then he only needs to finish ahead of Schu in the last race to win the title. But with this system, his 21 points lead could well be gone within 3 races with him finishing second but Schu first!

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Well, yes, potentially 0.166 of a point might decide a championship. Similarly, two points might decide a championship this year, but drivers are still quite often content to turn the engine down and finish second.

In fact it would be even more tempting to back off towards the end of a race under your proposed system, because the later in the race you are, the smaller the benefits of passing become.

Anyway, that's my take on it, I'm off to bed. Interesting idea, but I don't like it

Here's another one: How about awarding points according to how many seconds behind the leader you finish? Then whoever is in the lead of the race would want to push all the way to the finish to maximise his points, and everybody else would have to chase just as hard. Plus it would be easy to see how many points someone is going to score at any point in the race.

Then what if it's not for the win, say, just a battle for the fourth place?

Well with this system I can't see any way they will tend to back off towards the end. Since what they've already earned can't be denied. Those laps they did are on record and will be awarded due provisional pts, they don't have to worry about an unsuccessful passing manuever to screw it all. In such a nothing-to-lose situation. YES, I see it as a definite incentive to overtake!