Quote from hp999 :

First up, the topic he brought up has been going on for years(even though I haven't been here for 'many years'), due to the fact that RAC is very unstable in LFS, not speaking about the fact how unrealistic the setups are. Speaking of which, RAC is the least used car in LFS(since S2 was released). Now, I don't see, why people wouldn't complain about it, since it's a hard car to handle. I was assuming he is new to LFS(which he is), so he came to the forums, and made a thread about it. Probably the scenario was - he some of the cars, found RAC to be the hardest to drive and then made a thread. Not being a dumb idiot about his postcount - most of the cases it is all about it , which brings some others to the thought the driver is a newbie.

Secondly, this is LFS, not rFactor. I'm quite sure RAC isn't featured in any other simulator, correct me, if I'm wrong.


RAC setups can be found at setupgrid.net, if there is a need.

All that because of a hasty conclusion. Fancy that.

IMO the RAC is a bit of a 50/50 car...I always get frustrated with the Raceabout, but I just can't stop trying to tame it because it's a great challenge and a fun car to drive.

There is almost 0 server where you can RACE the rac (not DRIFT or CRUISE).

I started one, was practicing along with 2 AI, because I was waiting for humans to come, no one ever came...

Quote from Mazink :

There is almost 0 server where you can RACE the rac

Really?

I'm one of the crazy lot driving the RAC at cargame. Its my favourite car atm, a real handfull to drive with 720° and H-Shifter. About the crazy setups, I couldn't even do a complete lap on the setupgrid setups, IMO those use all those exploits (ridiculous ARBs, locked diff etc.), at least the hotlap ones.

My own setups are quite different, 38-45% lock, ~150kPa, ~10kN/m ARB, plus 20kg weight on the front axis I'm not really fast, but my tires (now) last longer than 2 laps and I can catch the car when I get it too sideways.

And thanks to all the weight on the back its quite capable of offroading, anyone remember the Hillclimb layouts for FE ?

Quote from cargame.nl :

Really?

I think he means race Only the RAC.

Quote from RevengeR :

I love how everyone is saying 'I love the LX6/RAC/FZ5, they are the coolest bestest cars out there' in these threads, but in reality no one never drives them because they are really hard to handle. Especially the RAC, which is really a pain in the ass to go fast with. It's hard to have good competitive races with them cause they need lots and lots of practice and proper sets to have a decent stable pace.
Let's face it, no one really likes it, only the forum warriors in these threads.

You are wrong. I've always liked these cars and I somehow don't find them hard to drive, maybe it's because I really like the car and I enjoy when I'm racing with them. Maybe you guys use weird setups, but it doesn't take a lot to get used to the car.

LRF have been my favorite cars since couple of years ago and I still love them. Too bad there aren't many(any) leagues with LRF. Or if there are, I haven't noticed any.

The trick with the RAC is find the pace you can put in lap after lap. It has such and tiny edge between a fun catchable drive and trying to kill you.

But is rewarding when you get it right. Will be interesting to see what the new tire physics bring to the RAC

Quote from cargame.nl :

Really?

Thanks for making RAC possible.

I fell in love with it on your server.

I'm now trying to beat my RAC@FE5R pb i set at your server.

It's a great car to drive, but not really for pickup races... with most people are lacking skills to drive it.

btw, next round of Apex Cup is with the RAC / FZ5. Signups are still open, so if you want some good racing...

the RAC is really funny, but i prefer the LX6, its simply awesome to drive and very funny beating XFR's and UFR's at some tracks

The RAC and the other RRs - for me anyways - are a bit difficult because without a perfect setup it can be mayhem. It's very possible to have too much lift-off oversteer, slow-speed understeer and throttle understeer until it, snaps all in one setup I can keep them on the road, but speed is an entirely different issue. I'd probably drive them more if I was able to drive rather than tip-toe.

If you can ride the Raceabout, there's no lack of boredom or disliking. Agreeing the post over me, there is no Server where you can race with them, I mean, not more people as 0.

Quote from hp999 :

And I love how someone with 18 posts moans about RAC.

So how many posts do you think someone must have before they're allowed to have an opinion on something in here?

I only have 167, but I still think you're an idiot. Hope that's OK with you.

Quote from nikka :

So how many posts do you think someone must have before they're allowed to have an opinion on something in here?

I only have 167, but I still think you're an idiot. Hope that's OK with you.

This is what I wanted to say, but I guess you have a better way of putting it than me

I see three problems with the RAC design:
1) It appears that the tires are the same size on the front and rear. But there is 50% more weight on the back and the rear tires have to handle all that power. Using different air pressures can help but it would be better if the tire size fit the amount of work that the tire had to do.

2) As mentioned in a previous post, no rear ant-roll bar. This limits the ability to independently adjust the vehicles vertical spring rate, roll spring rate, and fore and aft distribution of roll stiffness.

3) The rear suspension design. If you compare the rear upright of the RAC to the other cars in LFS, it is the only one with the upper attach point so far outboard of the lower one. This is probably done to raise the rear roll center. Maybe an effort to increase the rear roll stiffness without increasing the rear spring rates. As a result, the rear wheel cambers change a lot more than they do for the front wheels. Plus, it tends to have the "jacking" effect of a car with swing axles.

Based on these three factors I think the front of the car is much more efficient than the rear. Usually increasing the front roll stiffness will ease the load on the rear tires at the expense of over working the outside front tire. Therefore making the feel more balanced. I haven't been able to do this with the RAC. Either the frame is too flexible to transfer the roll moment to the front, or there just isn't that much weight that can be transferred at the front, or I am doing it all wrong. So I have tried something that they did on the Auto Union GP cars back in the 1930's when they had lots of power and narrow tires. They would put positive camber on the front wheels to make the car lose grip at the front more easily. Thus, when the driver lost the back end of the car it was easier to catch because the front tires were already closer to their limits. What seems best to me is (a) setting the live camber settings at the front to between 0 and -1. (b) Setting the live rear cambers to between -3 and -4. And (c) raising the ride height of the front of the car to make the initial roll centers more equal for the front and rear. The tire temperature profile for the front tires looks terrible with these settings (outside edge about 5C hotter than inside edge) but I find the car to be much more controllable and easier to save when the back end breaks loose. In fact, I am now trying to dial out some of the understeer in slow corners without losing the stability it has. Lap times ( at least for a slow driver like me) don't seem to be that far off what I can do in the LX6. After all, if you can't use all the extra grip at the front, it really isn't going to be of much help.

But everyone has different abilities and preferences on how they want a car to feel. Just something that works for me and might or might not be of help to someone else. By the way, I really like the car.

Quote from nikka :

So how many posts do you think someone must have before they're allowed to have an opinion on something in here?

I only have 167, but I still think you're an idiot. Hope that's OK with you.

I am a idiot. I hope that's okay with you.

E-penis battling in this thread is so epic, don't even try to talk if you have less than 9000 posts.

Becouse it's too hard to control for most of the people.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

It's very possible to have too much lift-off oversteer, slow-speed understeer and throttle understeer until it, snaps all in one setup

Where'd you get my setup from, sounds ever so much like it!

Quote from Uke :

Becouse it's too hard to control for most of the people.

Oh come on, it's not that hard, even I can control it.

And as proof that it's not that hard, here's a replay of a 3 lap drive:

Quote from andRo. :

You are wrong. I've always liked these cars and I somehow don't find them hard to drive, maybe it's because I really like the car and I enjoy when I'm racing with them. Maybe you guys use weird setups, but it doesn't take a lot to get used to the car.

LRF have been my favorite cars since couple of years ago and I still love them. Too bad there aren't many(any) leagues with LRF. Or if there are, I haven't noticed any.

No I'm not. You guys are only a few compared to the whole community. And this few is not enough to be noticable on the servers.
I'd also check those RAC lovers' online stats for laps and PBs haha

Quote from codehound :

Either the frame is too flexible to transfer the roll moment to the front

Only there is no chassis flex in LFS

BTW I'm not sure why the RAC handles the way it does, but I sure hope no Raceabout IRL handles that way.

Quote from NightShift :

Only there is no chassis flex in LFS

BTW I'm not sure why the RAC handles the way it does, but I sure hope no Raceabout IRL handles that way.

Because of the lack of rear ARB. Thats why you gotta stiffen the rear damping up, and use insane toe at the rear to make it more responsive even without rear ARB. It's hard to drive those sets.

Everyone has their favorite machine, but usually people choose more easily controlled machine or the fastest. Personally I like to drive with RAC, but on many tracks LX6 is the fastest and on some tracks FZ5.